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#211917 - 12/04/2004 16:21 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
Well, I tried creating the boot disk using a brand new floppy, and the exact same thing is happening. I don't think it's the drive, either. It's saying that it doesn't recognize the CDROM before those mounting lines. Here's how it's looking to me between the installation (inst) screen and the log screen:

log: * looking for ide media
* looking for scsi media
* SCSI/2: sr0 is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:465
* looking for Compaq Smart Array media
* looking for DAC960
* unsetting automatic

inst: No CDROM device found. Ok [<-button. I press enter]
inst: Please insert the Additional Drivers floppy. Ok. [<-button. I press enter]

log: * have to insmod floppy
* needs floppy
* ...succeeded floppy
* /dev/fd0 type: H1440
* ...track: 0
* mounting /dev/fd0 on /tmp/floppy as type ext2
* mount failed: Invalid argument

inst: Floppy is not a Linus ext2 floppy in first
floppy drive.
Retry?


So that's where I'm able to get to. Is that any more usefull info?

*edit*
oh yeah, I also updated the BIOS. it went smoothly but now all the other components are complaining about out of date BIOSs. Some of them I can't find and some need to be run from inside Windows!


Edited by DiGNAN17 (12/04/2004 16:22)
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#211918 - 12/04/2004 16:34 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You are using rawrite or whatever to generate the disks, and not just copying one big file onto it, right?

I'd have to say that if is notices the CD-ROM drive (sr0 is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:465) but then claims that it can't find it (No CDROM device found), then the installation is hosed. You shouldn't need further drivers. It sees all it needs to see. Maybe the CDROM is screwed up -- the media, that is, not the drive, although that could be a potential issue, too.

Is this Mandrake 9? And you're creting the CDROM properly, too, and not just copying one big image file onto a Joliet disk, right?
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#211919 - 12/04/2004 17:18 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
I do believe I did everything correctly. I burned the CDs as images in Nero (didn't extract then burn), and I used the resulting disk 1 to create the boot disk using rawritewin.exe as per Andy's instructions.

One last thing: during the bootup, it goes through the various SCSI boot processes. There appears to be a problem. It keeps saying "SCSI BIOS Not installed!" This is odd since I can see it going through each SCSI controller and seeing what is connected to it. I think there's only two: one onboard for the CDROM and one card for the hard disk array.
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#211920 - 13/04/2004 01:34 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5899
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
* looking for ide media
* looking for scsi media
* SCSI/2: sr0 is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:465
* looking for Compaq Smart Array media
* looking for DAC960
* unsetting automatic

inst: No CDROM device found. Ok [<-button. I press enter]


Very odd, as the "SCSI/2: sr0 is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:465" line clearly shows it found a SCSI CD-ROM.

Ignoring that oddity for the moment, lets look at the rest.

inst: Please insert the Additional Drivers floppy. Ok. [<-button. I press enter]

Did you do what it asked and insert an "Additional Drivers floppy" ? I'm guessing you didn't because I can't find any mention of an additional drivers floppy in the docs for the Mandrake install.


log: * have to insmod floppy
* needs floppy
* ...succeeded floppy
* /dev/fd0 type: H1440
* ...track: 0
* mounting /dev/fd0 on /tmp/floppy as type ext2
* mount failed: Invalid argument

I have found some people with the same problem as you:

http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?s=3c475a04f3e9530bea571977ffd5691c&showtopic=55703&st=0&#entry254277
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=16&t=1867

But alas with no solution.

Looking at the Mandrake boot images there is one called cdrom-changedisk.img which I can't see mentioned in any docs. Perhaps this is the floppy image it is expecting to find on the additional floppy ?
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#211921 - 13/04/2004 06:37 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
Yeah, as you guessed, I wasn't putting a second disk into the drive when it asked me for it, because (as you thought), I have no idea what disk they're talking about I did try using some disks made from some places on the Dell downloads section, but they didn't help.

I'll take a look at the other disk images in the dosutils tonight.
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#211922 - 13/04/2004 19:05 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
Okay, tried making a floppy from the cdrom-changedisk image, but got the same error when I tried using it at the point we thought:

inst: Floppy is not a Linus ext2 floppy in first
floppy drive.
Retry?

I've also not joined the Mandrake community thing, so I can't ask them for support. I'm suprised that others have run into the same problems, but not found a solution.

By the way, is Red Hat difficult for newbies to use? There seems to be a lot of talk on this Dell support page about RH9. I think this machine is officially supported for RH9.
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#211923 - 13/04/2004 21:26 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
rompel
stranger

Registered: 26/08/2000
Posts: 44
Loc: California
Okay, tried making a floppy from the cdrom-changedisk image, but got the same error when I tried using it at the point we thought:
The floppy problem is easy: it is expecting a floppy with an ext2 filesystem containing additional drivers. You are feeding it a boot disk (no filesystem). It doesn't matter which boot disk you feed it, it isn't going to work. Moreover, it already sees your CD-ROM drive, so it isn't a question of loading an additional driver.

The real problem is why it isn't able to read your CD-ROM. My WAG is that the installer isn't creating the proper symbolic link for /dev/cdrom. If this is the case, it's probably fixable. The magic command is "ln -sf /dev/sr0 /dev/cdrom". The trick is finding a way to issue the command. I've never used Mandrake, but I would hope that they would open up a root shell on a spare virtual console during the install. To switch VCs, you use ALT+F1, ALT+F2, etc.--unless you're in X, in which case it's CTRL+ALT+F1, etc. You're looking for either a shell prompt (probably ending in "#" to indicate a root shell) or a login prompt (login as root, shouldn't need a password).

But before going through all of that, couldn't you just hook up a IDE CD-ROM drive long enough to do the install?

--John


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#211924 - 13/04/2004 21:41 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: rompel]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
But before going through all of that, couldn't you just hook up a IDE CD-ROM drive long enough to do the install?
I tried, but there is no IDE connector on the motherboard Unless I'm seriously missing something. I looked around as much as possible before I started choking on the horrible black dust this machine picked up in my dad's office over the last 5 years

I'll see what I can do about your suggestion.
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#211925 - 13/04/2004 21:51 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: rompel]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
Sorry, I couldn't find a way to get to a shell. Alt+F1 is the graphic installation screen, Alt+F2 is a black screen with a cursor, but I tried typing your command in and nothing happened. Alt+F3 is the log, and Alt+F4 (according to the graphinc install screen), is the kernel msg. All but F2 are labelled on the graphic install screen, actually. I tried others but they didn't do anything.
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#211926 - 13/04/2004 23:25 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
rompel
stranger

Registered: 26/08/2000
Posts: 44
Loc: California
Sorry, I couldn't find a way to get to a shell.
<grumble>

I should have expected as much. I went through a similar thing many years ago trying to install Red Hat. I gave up and switched to Debian which not only gave me access to a shell but already had the CD-ROM driver I needed (thus making the existence of a shell moot).

--John



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#211927 - 14/04/2004 03:14 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5899
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
By the way, is Red Hat difficult for newbies to use? There seems to be a lot of talk on this Dell support page about RH9. I think this machine is officially supported for RH9.

I have never used Mandrake, so I don't know if it is any easier to use than Red Hat for newbies. It is based on Red Hat though.

The problem with RH9 is that it isn't supported any more. Red Hat took the (in my opinion as a long standing paying customer of theirs) the decision to basically withdraw from the workstation/low end server market.

They have dropped support for RH 7.x, 8.0 and 9.0 completely. No more security updates, nothing. They expect people to move to Red Hat Enterprise, which I probably would if they actually provided an upgrade mechanism, idiots.

Any way, rant over. Suffice it to say RH9 is probably not a good choice for the future.

Red Hat "replaced" RH9 with Fedora http://fedora.redhat.com/ but it isn't a sensible replacement if you just want to install a server and run it on the same version for years, because they aren't planning on releasing security updates for very long after each release.
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#211928 - 14/04/2004 03:34 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: rompel]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5899
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I went through a similar thing many years ago trying to install Red Hat.

The Red Hat installer has had a shell prompt for as long as I can remember, definitely since 7.1:

http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.1-Manual/install-guide/ch-guimode.html#S2-GUIMODE-VIRTUAL-CONSOLES

I'd be amazed if the Mandrake installer didn't have one too (unless it only has one in "expert" mode or something).
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#211929 - 14/04/2004 04:42 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
rompel
stranger

Registered: 26/08/2000
Posts: 44
Loc: California
The Red Hat installer has had a shell prompt for as long as I can remember, definitely since 7.1:
I don't remember which version of Red Hat I tried, but I'm sure it was before 7.1. I know I ended up installing Debian 1.3 "bo" which puts it in a 1997-1998 timeframe. Anyway, it was quite a while ago and I'm afraid my memory is a bit fuzzy beyond the fact that I couldn't get my CD-ROM to work under the Red Hat installer and I ended up with Debian instead.


Edited by rompel (14/04/2004 04:47)

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#211930 - 14/04/2004 06:38 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
ashmoore
addict

Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
I have used Redhat for many moons, from around v2 or v3ish. They have always made life interesting with their choices.
Mandrake seem to have the challenge of actually staying in business.
Both of which decided my change to Suse. The best part of suse for me is that you can still get updates via yast (the suse version of RHN) for free on as many systems as you want. No registrations, nothing.
The downside to suse is that they do not release ISOs, you end up with either a network install or buying the product.
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#211931 - 14/04/2004 09:35 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: ashmoore]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
The downside to suse is that they do not release ISOs, you end up with either a network install or buying the product.
That's why I didn't end up with them.


I do have an expert mode as a choice at the first install screen. Tonight I'll see if I can access the shell through that. What's different in the expert mode? I'm definitely no expert, so I was wary of choosing that option.
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#211932 - 14/04/2004 10:56 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: ashmoore]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31473
Loc: Seattle, WA
Mandrake seem to have the challenge of actually staying in business.
I read that they're about to come out of bankruptcy and actually posted a profitable quarter. Hope it'll last.
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#211933 - 14/04/2004 16:06 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
if there is a shell prompt in expert mode, I can't see it. Up until the point I'm able to reach in either mode, there isn't a whole lot of difference between them. Grr.

Does anyone know if there are ISO ditros of Suse at least for download?
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#211934 - 14/04/2004 16:34 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
The Key is hidden under the dell logo on the front of the computer push in on the logo and it is a small door with the key.
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#211935 - 14/04/2004 16:37 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: Dignan]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Why, 2 processors are more then enough juice for what you are using it for, adding more of them once make it any faster and be warned Xeon processors are NOT ment for mulit-media they are number crunchers and file servers not game machines and there is very little you can do to change it.
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#211936 - 14/04/2004 18:14 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: belezeebub]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
What are multiple processors useful for? Oh this definitely won't be used as a gaming machine. Earlier in the thread I said what I'd be using it for: file serving and possibly working on labor-intensive tasks like video conversion (simply to be able to use my desktop while it's going on).
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#211937 - 14/04/2004 18:19 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: belezeebub]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12301
Loc: Sterling, VA
The Key is hidden under the dell logo on the front of the computer push in on the logo and it is a small door with the key.
That would be very cool (and handy), but I'm not sure we're talking about the same machines here. Once I started bending the metal on the logo, I took the front bezel off and that's all it is, a logo. I took it off to bend the metal back out, so I'm sure there's no key under there.
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#211938 - 15/04/2004 04:52 Re: Network and server advice? [Re: belezeebub]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Xeon processors are NOT ment for mulit-media they are number crunchers and file servers not game machines and there is very little you can do to change it.

Intel propaganda, and nothing more.

Pentium 3 and Pentium 3 Xeon DP Difference:
Slot/Socket type

Pentium 3 and Pentiom 3 Xeon MP Differences:
Slot/Socket type
L2 Cache sizes
A slightly larger CPU die to accommodate the 4 processor support

Pentium 4 and Xeon DP differences:
Socket type
Minor transistor differences to enable dual processing

Pentium 4 and Xeon MP differences:
Socket type
A slightly larger CPU die to accommodate the 4 processor support
Support for on die L3 cache

There are no differences that exist that make a Xeon a worse gaming processor, or multimedia processor. The Xeons now have the exact same SSE 2 stuff and such, because for all intensive purposes, they are the same as Pentium 4. In fact, Pentium 4 chips would work fine in a dual processor configuration, if Intel enabled them to do so. No extra transistors would need to be created. Just a few flipped. Xeons actually are faster in about everything when dealing with the MP chips, due to the L3 cache.

Oh, Xeon DP = dual processor capable. Aka, the exact same chip Intel sells to consumers, except with a Xeon name to justify charging hundreds more.
MP = multi processor capable. These go into the high end x86 servers. Intel specs only support 4 processors on a bus. 8 processor systems use a very complex chipset to create two processor busses (very difficult in the Intel world, very commonplace in everyone elses CPU worlds, including Apple with the G5 and AMD with their Athlon chips).
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