#235353 - 06/10/2004 20:57
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: siberia37]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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So, then, someone should file a police report, like siberia37 said. It's a good starting point to help a bunch of people get back their money. Who wants to make that call?
(ps: I ordered a bunch of lenses from Dark Storm over time, and they came quickly and without issue.)
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#235354 - 06/10/2004 21:01
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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I for one am one of the people that lost over $100. But having gone through a cancer scare of my own this week I am not angry with Steve though granted, it could have been handled a little better. If anyone here knows someone that has cancer or lost someone to cancer (I've lost four family members to cancer), it can change a person and make them very angry at the world. The chemo and radiation treatments leave you with little strength and feeling like crap and it also bleeds out your bank account and leaves you with a great deal of medical bills.
I hope Steve was able to kick the cancer and is still alive and we probably will never get our money back or any lenses, but be thankful everyday that you don't have cancer yourself and just drop the matter.
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Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#235355 - 06/10/2004 23:04
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: Laura]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Laura, well put. Steve certainly deserves compassion for his ordeal, and I pray that he is doing well. But I also sympathize with the people who lost money, many of whom complained well before we knew of Steve's heath.
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Brad B.
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#235356 - 06/10/2004 23:56
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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There seems to be an attitude on here that "forgives" him for not responding/supplying lenses/refunding because he was ill, the least he could have done was said "I'm ill, I had to give up work, I've had to use your money for other purposes"
If I had to guess (and that's all this is: a guess) I would say that DarkStorm's troubles are so severe that the trivial little problem of him owing a bunch of people maybe a thousand dollars or so is so far down on the list that it doesn't even register on his consciousness.
When your house is on fire, worrying about what color hoses the firemen are using isn't going to be a big concern. Similarly, if you are dying...
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#235357 - 07/10/2004 00:35
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I just want to clarify, as far as we know (and I just browsed through old threads) non-delivery began way before he was found to have cancer. I remember him mentioning a broken rib and his boss not letting him use the company machine at one point. Of course, if he had known for a long time and never wanted to share publicly, I wouldn't blame him. It's really none of our business. I just don't want the casual reader to think that these people who are complaining were being insensitive. They had been left in the dark for a long time and had no indication that Steve's health was an issue.
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Brad B.
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#235358 - 07/10/2004 01:25
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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You know, this may make me some enemies, but damn it, Brad is right and someone needs to say so.
1) Steve (who I didn't know, but who's post I have read many times, and who's story I am very farmiliar with) took peoples money and didn't provide the product or service he promised. That is wrong.
2) Cancer is foul. As foul as it gets. It is terrifying, and nobody should have to ever deal with it. What it is not is an excuse to use other peoples money without their permission.
3) I hope Steve is ok. I would never wish his ordeal on anyone.
People need to stop arguing about this. Whether or not Steve is still alive, the odds of getting the money back are pretty much nil. What is important is that we are all a community, and that we continue to be one.
I, too, think that it is stretching it a bit to get indignant with people because they're angry about losing their money. We all have things we get mad about, and we say angry things. But we ALL do it sometime.
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Dave
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#235359 - 07/10/2004 01:31
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I just don't want the casual reader to think that these people who are complaining were being insensitive. They had been left in the dark for a long time and had no indication that Steve's health was an issue.
That's fair. I have a bias. I drive around enjoying 2 shipments of Steve's work, so I don't feel personally burnt, but there were times when Steve's communications to the board were....difficult.
I have seen cases on other boards where people were clearly thieves and scam artists from day one and people on those boards relished updates as the police closed in. Steve, whatever his sometimes-grumpy relations, delivered too much good stuff to people like me to fall into that category.
What happened? I can't begin to guess. Not being out any money, I don't have a particular stake in any opinion other than taking his word for what seemed a bad situation. I lean toward tanstaafl's interpretation. If I were out $100, might I want to start a committee to involve the police and find out what the deal really is? Maybe. Would I want to spend all of that emotional and mental energy only to find that Steve is gone missing, in jail, in hospital, or......?
Steve, if you are out there and want to dispute my characterization of your relations as "grumpy", well, jump in.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235360 - 07/10/2004 01:36
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
I just don't want the casual reader to think that these people who are complaining were being insensitive. They had been left in the dark for a long time and had no indication that Steve's health was an issue.
That's fair. I have a bias. I drive around enjoying 2 shipments of Steve's work, so I don't feel personally burnt, but there were times when Steve's communications to the board were....difficult.
Dude, I seem to have lost my bias, can i borrow yours? I don't want to be caught without... there are still 2 work days left this week.
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#235361 - 07/10/2004 02:07
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Dude, I seem to have lost my bias, can i borrow yours? I don't want to be caught without... there are still 2 work days left this week.
Two work days left this week??? Dude you gotta sign up for the totally sekrit public employee compact work week. E-mail me with PGP key for sekrit details.
Now, on the lens front, I must tell you that I busted one of my Darkstorm smoke lenses, but if there is anything else I can maybe help you with, lens-wise, to perhaps ease your pain, e-mail me. I think I have a blue one.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235362 - 07/10/2004 02:20
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Two work days left this week??? Dude you gotta sign up for the totally sekrit public employee compact work week. E-mail me with PGP key for sekrit details.
Now, on the lens front, I must tell you that I busted one of my Darkstorm smoke lenses, but if there is anything else I can maybe help you with, lens-wise, to perhaps ease your pain, e-mail me. I think I have a blue one.
I'm set on the lenses. I need some of that bias...
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#235363 - 07/10/2004 02:29
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I'm set on the lenses. I need some of that bias...
No problem. Piece of cake.
Just stand up and (taking due care to brace yourself, of course) lean to the left.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235364 - 07/10/2004 03:00
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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This post was written hours ago, but unfortunately I forgot to hit submit before I went out for the evening. I recognise that the thread has moved on in that time, but wanted to post it anyway...Quote:
You absolutely have got to be kidding. We're in some world were we can't call someone who took dozens of people's money, never delivered and never appologized a theif?[sic]
No, I'm quite serious. That is the World that you live in. That is the Country that you live in.
If you want to think that he's a thief, fine. If you want to express your opinion that you think that he's a thief, fine. Neither of those could ever land Tom in any trouble. Go ahead, say it if it makes you feel better. Type, "I think that he is a thief." into a reply. You'll hear no stick from me if you do. Just please make it clear that it is your personal opinion, and not a fact.
Quote:
I wish people here showed 1/2 of the sympathy towards the people that lost their money as they do towards DS.
Where is all this sympathy? I certainly don't share his viewpoints or opinions. I thought that he was brash and rude in many of his postings. Sure, when he posted that he had lung cancer I felt sorry for the guy, but if you're suggesting that there is a recent slew of "Poor Darkstorm" posts, I haven't seen any.
Quote:
We aren't running a major newspaper here. This isn't slander or libel or anything like that.
This may not be a major newpaper, but the statement "Mr X. is a thief", would be libelous, unless you could prove that Mr X. was indeed a thief. Thinking about it a bit more, people freely sent money of their own volition. It was not taken from them. IANAL, but I don't think that counts as robbey, so that disqualifies him as a thief. What he is alleged to have done would qualify as fraud though. So he's possibly a fraudster.
Quote:
This is people who have been robbed. I think we need to look at priorities here.
It certainly appears that a significant number of people have been defrauded. And I'm not about to pass any judgement on anyone who persues that through whatever legal avenues they deem appropriate.
As I am not owed anything by Darkstorm, I have no priorities in this matter. It would be really nice if we could all avoid implicating Tom or this BBS in any libel actions though.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#235365 - 07/10/2004 07:36
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Quote:
If I had to guess (and that's all this is: a guess) I would say that DarkStorm's troubles are so severe that the trivial little problem of him owing a bunch of people maybe a thousand dollars or so is so far down on the list that it doesn't even register on his consciousness.
When your house is on fire, worrying about what color hoses the firemen are using isn't going to be a big concern. Similarly, if you are dying...
tanstaafl.
Fact of the matter is, he was still posting regularly on here at the time I placed my order, he had the time to post here, time to renew his internet hosting but not apparently the time to make lenses/reply to my pm's and emails asking him what was going on. THIS WAS QUITE A LONG TIME PRIOR TO HIM MENTIONING CANCER. (apologies for shouting!)
I'm sure it wouldn't have taken him more than 5 minutes to put up a message or email the people concerned explaining the situation (whatever it was at that point). He posted other messages, so I don't see why he coulnd't contact us.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to check out of this world knowing that theres a long list of people being made "unhappy" by me.
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#235368 - 07/10/2004 11:16
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
fraudster
Personally, I prefer the term "bunco artist".
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Bitt Faulk
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#235369 - 07/10/2004 16:55
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
I'm sure it wouldn't have taken him more than 5 minutes to put up a message or email the people concerned explaining the situation (whatever it was at that point). He posted other messages, so I don't see why he coulnd't contact us.
If you had someone's money, and couldn't for whatever reason make good, wouldn't you be rather, well, ashamed, to step up and confess to that?
Quote:
I sure as hell wouldn't want to check out of this world knowing that theres a long list of people being made "unhappy" by me.
Well, that's you. Next?
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#235370 - 07/10/2004 16:56
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
fraudster
Personally, I prefer the term "bunco artist".
All dice games are frauds 
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#235371 - 07/10/2004 19:37
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Personally, I prefer the term "bunco artist".
Both terms connote some degree of premeditation and planning -- also some notion that the fraudster/artist gets an attactive return. I have a hard time thinking of the Steve saga in those kinds of terms (but a number of people mention that they are out significant sums) so, as much as I deride insta-polls, here's one:
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235372 - 07/10/2004 20:35
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: Daria]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure it wouldn't have taken him more than 5 minutes to put up a message or email the people concerned explaining the situation (whatever it was at that point). He posted other messages, so I don't see why he coulnd't contact us.
If you had someone's money, and couldn't for whatever reason make good, wouldn't you be rather, well, ashamed, to step up and confess to that?
Quote:
I sure as hell wouldn't want to check out of this world knowing that theres a long list of people being made "unhappy" by me.
Well, that's you. Next?
Do you actually have anything worth saying *at all*, all you've done in this thread is post pointless replies, which is getting rather tiresome now. If you've got nothing constructive to add, it's probably best to keep your mouth shut.
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#235373 - 07/10/2004 20:44
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
If you had someone's money, and couldn't for whatever reason make good, wouldn't you be rather, well, ashamed, to step up and confess to that?
Quote:
I sure as hell wouldn't want to check out of this world knowing that theres a long list of people being made "unhappy" by me.
Well, that's you. Next?
Do you actually have anything worth saying *at all*, all you've done in this thread is post pointless replies, which is getting rather tiresome now. If you've got nothing constructive to add, it's probably best to keep your mouth shut.
In other threads, sure. In this thread, the level of discourse never got high enough to bother getting out any of the highbrow stuff, so it's still in a box by my feet. This last post doesn't change that, either.
As to the shame bit, I was serious, but, well, you've already written me off as a crackpot, so, just forget I said anything.
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#235374 - 08/10/2004 06:05
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: jimhogan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 345
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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i've got 2 other friends who dont post to this bbs, together, are out over $100. Plus, i'm out over $100. 
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-CHiP
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#235375 - 08/10/2004 10:20
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: CHiP]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Since we are adding up, I'm out $50 (which I didn't care much about til I realised just how many other people are also out $50-$100)
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#235376 - 08/10/2004 13:20
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: CHiP]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
i've got 2 other friends who dont post to this bbs, together, are out over $100. Plus, i'm out over $100
Which is why you can't trust self-selecting polls/surveys (or at least really have to watch any interpretation carefully).
My only interest was to question whether this saga started out as a scam or some sort of pyramid scheme. I don't think it did. That doesn't get you, Andy, Laura, yoru friends and other folks your money back. What else to conclude/say? I don't know.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235377 - 08/10/2004 13:48
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: jimhogan]
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member
Registered: 01/01/2002
Posts: 144
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Quote:
My only interest was to question whether this saga started out as a scam or some sort of pyramid scheme. I don't think it did. That doesn't get you, Andy, Laura, yoru friends and other folks your money back. What else to conclude/say? I don't know.
I don't believe that it was, I had no issues with my order a couple of years ago. I wouldn't hold out any hope right now, though.
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#235378 - 09/10/2004 08:09
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: andy]
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new poster
Registered: 21/03/2000
Posts: 26
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My bank account was lessened to the tune of over $130. And to date, no product received.
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Rick (MkII #80000150 w/tuner & stalk, 40gb)
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#235379 - 10/10/2004 00:33
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: rafran]
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addict
Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
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I'm only out $25 bucks.
Not as much as some of you guys but still, I could use an extra $25 right now.
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...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.
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#235380 - 10/10/2004 02:21
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: fusto]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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I didn't really want to get involved but I got "done" as well. I previously had 3 successful transactions with Steve. Very helpful all 3 times.
My final payment for $45.50 in Jan 2003, resulted in nothing even when I was trying to contact him shortly after the payment.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#235381 - 10/10/2004 14:23
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: fusto]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I'm only out $25 bucks.
Not as much as some of you guys but still, I could use an extra $25 right now.
Dude! Lummi Island! Wuzzup???
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#235382 - 10/10/2004 14:28
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Huh?
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#235383 - 10/10/2004 14:42
Re: News on Darkstorm
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I didn't really want to get involved but I got "done" as well. I previously had 3 successful transactions with Steve. Very helpful all 3 times.
My final payment for $45.50 in Jan 2003, resulted in nothing even when I was trying to contact him shortly after the payment.
(For somebody who supposedly disses BBS polls, I have sure started a lot of them lately! I guess I view them as an interesting vehicle for further discussion.)
If any response/post typifies the situation vis-a-vis Darkstorm, I guess your post does. If I had decided to order a few more lenses (which I did consider) I might unhappily be able to post the same experience as you.
As of today, 74 percent of self-selected respondants who say they sent money report that they got everything they ordered. I am also going to guess that the self-selection bias in this poll is possibly biased toward the negative result -- more folks tune in to this thread who are interested in what happened to their money than folks who got what they ordered (even though it has been shown that some of the former are underrepresented in this poll -- no BBS account). This supports my sense that this falls into a different category than fraud/bunco.
Possible biases aside, it looks like at least 13 people sent money (considerable sums) and did not get what they deserved. What to do about that? Well.....
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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