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#241428 - 15/11/2004 23:14 Small 4CH amplifier?
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
I'm looking for a small amplifier that I can hide away in my car. Hopefully something for 40-odd quid from eBay.co.uk - that kindof thing.

It needs to be a 4 channel unit for driving basic factory-installed speakers - I might upgrade the speakers in the coming months but I really not looking for a boom-box kindof affair!

In terms of size, well, I think I've got about 300 x 150 x 50mm available - any suggestions on what I should be searching for?

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#241429 - 14/06/2005 22:19 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: AndrewT]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
I have the same desire- a small 4CH amp to power my stock-size speakers for the empeg.
I haven't had any luck at the usual component-review sources on-line. It seems that physical dimensions are the last thing on everyone else's mind.
I'm tempted to get another head unit, just to stash it away (only have room in the dash for one DIN1) and leave it set to AUX...
The problem there is that I can't decipher whether the aftermarket units have an AUX IN that I can use. Seems that piece of info is not too interesting for the majority of folks- either that or it's a given that I'm just not aware of.
If it's possible to put a 50W/CH 4CH amp in a DIN1 unit *along with* all the rest of the radio/CD/whatever, then why, why, why are all the amps so freakin' huge?
10"x12"x2" is just gross!
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#241430 - 15/06/2005 04:13 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
Schido
enthusiast

Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
Because that 50W/CH is marketing watts, more like 12W/ch really.

Edit: How, about the one sold here , i have one like that lying under my seat, and it sounds great.


Edited by Schido (15/06/2005 04:27)
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Empeg Mk1 #00177, 2.00 final, hijack 4.76

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#241431 - 15/06/2005 08:15 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: AndrewT]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
I've just got a Sony xplod 222 mk2, it's only 2 channels which I'm mounting in the glove box to power my fronts, but you could parallel another set of speakers and run all 4 from it. Its dimensions are 200mm x 150mm x 40mm.
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Andy M

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#241432 - 15/06/2005 13:56 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Schido]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
Because that 50W/CH is marketing watts, more like 12W/ch really.

Ah- yah, I'd heard that. I guess what I'm really saying is that I don't need much more power than what my stock head-unit puts out. Certainly that's not 50W/CH.
I suspect that there's not much of a market for sub 50W stand-alone amps...
If I were a hardware geek I would look at stealing the amp board out of another head unit and packaging it up nice and neat under the dash.

Quote:
Edit: How, about the one sold here , i have one like that lying under my seat, and it sounds great.

I did see that. Alas, the seller is UK based and the cost/effort of shipping is most likely a deal breaker. Not to mention that I can't see/touch it before the sale. Living in the SF Bay Area, I would assume that all manner of options exist for me in my own back yard... hmm, more surfing at Craigslist, I guess.
Under the seat isn't an option for me, though- no room there in a del Sol. Trunk mounting is an option- heck, the empeg is going to make my 6CD changer useless anyway. Wiring would be sooo much nicer/easier if everything were in the dash, though.

Here's an audio-n00b question:
Do I really need a 4CH amp?
Isn't four channels the way that we get balance and fade capability?
That is, if I want to have balance and fade, must I use a 4CH?
I've read a few 'basic audio intro' articles, but I guess they weren't basic enough for me.
Thanks-
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#241433 - 15/06/2005 17:07 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Quote:
what I'm really saying is that I don't need much more power than what my stock head-unit puts out. Certainly that's not 50W/CH.


Yep. As stated typically around 15 true Watts per channel. A doubling of power will give you an additional 3dB. But to double perceived oudness you need 10x the power...
More available power will also let you stress the amp less [for better quality] for a given volume.

Quote:
I suspect that there's not much of a market for sub 50W stand-alone amps...


You'd be surprised... Of course most are advertised with far higher numbers But those advertised as sub50W would tend to the better [build&sound]quality end of the range.

Quote:
If I were a hardware geek I would look at stealing the amp board out of another head unit and packaging it up nice and neat under the dash.


Unless totally skint I wouldn't bother. Even a dead cheap separate lowpower amp often has better sound quality than the IC amp stage from a HU. After having bought my initial MkI shortly after a new VW Polo, cash was a bit tight and I went with 2 Pyramid amps off eBay. One 4channel (4x75W - yeah right) and one 2 channel that I ran the sub off. For the money, surprisingly good...

Quote:
Here's an audio-n00b question:
Do I really need a 4CH amp?
Isn't four channels the way that we get balance and fade capability?
That is, if I want to have balance and fade, must I use a 4CH?

You need 2 channels to separate left and right - otherwise you don't get stereo.
If you parallell your front and rear left (same for right) speakers and run off 2 channels you wouldn't be able to adjust the relative loudness of the two speakers (if different models it would depend on their respective sensitivity. You don't want one channel front and one back, as you wouldn't get stereo (left right)

Really low bass (sub bass) isn't locateable as higher frequencies are, so HUs with separate sub bass out often has just one such channel (instead of two for letf/right) Therefor it also really doesn't matter where the sub is placed. Which is nice as we can put the sub in the trunk where there's space, while speakers otherwise generally should be up front for a proper soundstage...

Quote:
I've read a few 'basic audio intro' articles, but I guess they weren't basic enough for me.
Thanks-


Don't know whether yu've seen this one, but I tend to always recommend this resource which starts with the true basics and goes on to pretty advanced stuff...
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/Michael

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#241434 - 15/06/2005 17:58 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: mtempsch]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:

Don't know whether yu've seen this one, but I tend to always recommend this resource which starts with the true basics and goes on to pretty advanced stuff...


Thanks for a very thoughtful reply and that link is a gem! I'll be perusing that site tonight.
Anyone have a favorite audio review site?
I've read e-pinions and cNet and Crutchfield, but there must be some 'heavier' resources out there.
Thanks-
_________________________
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#241435 - 15/06/2005 18:40 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
but there must be some 'heavier' resources out there.

Audio reviews are about the worst thing out there, especially end user ones. No one is unbiased, no one does double blind testing, and everyone is convinced that they either made the best choice ever or the worst choice ever. My advice is to ake everything with a grain of salt, buy something in the middle of the price range that's a good deal for what it is and that has the features you want.

Matthew

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#241436 - 22/06/2005 23:13 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: mtempsch]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
... After having bought my initial MkI shortly after a new VW Polo, cash was a bit tight and I went with 2 Pyramid amps off eBay. One 4channel (4x75W - yeah right) and one 2 channel that I ran the sub off. For the money, surprisingly good...


Ah- two key words have finally sunk into my brain- Pyramid and eBay.
I wasn't thinking of eBay at all but then realized it's a treasure trove of *information*, not only a marketplace.
Googling for Pyramid amps got me this site, where I found a couple of possibilities:
http://www.millionbuy.com/lcyla160.html
http://www.millionbuy.com/pyrpb180px.html
Small size, low power, a few key features... and a low price.
"At what sacrifice to sound quality??" I hear a few audiophyles cry.
Yet I heed thee not.
I think I've found something that will work.
Anyone had other experiences with Legacy or Pryamid?
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#241437 - 22/06/2005 23:52 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yes. Legacy sucks. I had a Legacy amp (still have it somewhere) and while I had it installed, my empeg produced a lot of alternator noise. Simply replacing the amp with a friend's, like, 20 year old amp that was worn out in many way got rid of the whine completely.
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#241438 - 23/06/2005 00:55 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Wow.. great price(US$40) for that 4-ch 300W Pyramid amp.. small, too: 2”H x 7.9”W x 6.75”L (okay, so it's a little thick, but..).

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#241439 - 23/06/2005 04:48 Re: Small 4CH amplifier? [Re: Robotic]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Quote:
Ah- two key words have finally sunk into my brain- Pyramid and eBay.
I wasn't thinking of eBay at all but then realized it's a treasure trove of *information*, not only a marketplace.
Googling for Pyramid amps got me this site, where I found a couple of possibilities:
http://www.millionbuy.com/lcyla160.html
http://www.millionbuy.com/pyrpb180px.html
Small size, low power, a few key features... and a low price.
"At what sacrifice to sound quality??" I hear a few audiophyles cry.
Yet I heed thee not.
I think I've found something that will work.
Anyone had other experiences with Legacy or Pryamid?


That Pyramid amp looks to be exactly what I as using for front and rear, in a slightly different housing... Might be some internal differences also, or not. Model number was PB230PX instead of PB180PX. [Update] Ah, it's also there http://www.millionbuy.com/pyrpb230px.html , tho the spec back then was slightly different;2x90 + 2x60W instead of 2x50 + 2x100W. [/Update]



While what I upgraded to - a 6 channel Audiobahn A6600E, also off eBay - sounds smewhat cleaner (even my poor ears can tell), it is certainly not something audiophiles laude, generally considered chrome and flames before quality, it did get the nod for best sound in Amersfoort last year, powering DLS PS6 6.5" components up front, Knutsson 8" 3-ways in the rear and a DLS W712 12" (sealed) sub.
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/Michael

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