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#316088 - 07/11/2008 22:42 iPod Classic 120: some questions
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
I got it a week ago and spent now some time with it. It's a nice device, which still can't compare with the Empeg feature set, but it is pleasant to use, overall. Nicely built, it is quite light and thin, IMO.

Now, some issues I had and could not address by reading manuals and tech support:

1. Why doesn't the Album name scroll?!
2. How do I show the other file tags? Hopefully they're not only accessible on iTunes...
3. iTunes: it really improved since last time i tried it, but I still don't particularly like it. Is there a way to make it monitor my HHD media directory, so that Music Base is automatically updated when I lounch it, or when I tell it to update itself? I see it stores some files and db in %userhomedir%\music\iTunes . Is it possible to change that? I can't remember the sw asking me at install time, and I can't find anywhere I can change that location. I did actually find what looked like the right setting to change, but nothing happened when I changed it.
What would you recommend if I wanted to use some other iPod manager that runs in Windows which in particular could monitor a HDD directory where I keep my music collection, and disregard all other music in my HDD?

4. Now, is it me, or the headset output has a quite low audio quality? I am using quite expensive Sennheizer in-ear headset, and I really think the quality is low. I realize I do not have a dock yet, which supposedly provides a line output that will hopefully allow me to use the iPod as my main MP3 player in the house, but still when walking I'd like some better sound experience. This really disappoints me. Especially now that Zune 120 just hit the market.


Edited by taym (07/11/2008 22:43)
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#316102 - 08/11/2008 10:56 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok, first off sorry if many of my observations are obvious to the many of you who are already familiar with the iPod.

Now, I could some how improve the sound quality using some better, not in-ear headsets. It seems that my in-ear ones, which I used well with my laptop and my home stereo, were lacking some bass frequencies when used with the iPod. Other non in-ear headsets work much better.

Howerver, one problem still remains: most, if not all, my mp3s, sound at a low volume on the iPod. I can increas the volume to max and still be ok with it. And, I am really not a fan of loud music. Is this normal? Should I correct the volume of my mp3s in iTunes and then resync?

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= Taym =
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#316136 - 09/11/2008 07:29 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: taym
Howerver, one problem still remains: most, if not all, my mp3s, sound at a low volume on the iPod. I can increas the volume to max and still be ok with it. And, I am really not a fan of loud music. Is this normal? Should I correct the volume of my mp3s in iTunes and then resync?

iTunes supposedly determine the max volume at which tracks are encoded, and then there is sound check function on iPod, which should adjust the gain in order to normalize everything. Of course, like everything else, it doesn't work nearly as good as equivalent empeg functionality....

Bonzi
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#316137 - 09/11/2008 07:36 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: taym
Now, some issues I had and could not address by reading manuals and tech support:

1. Why doesn't the Album name scroll?!
2. How do I show the other file tags? Hopefully they're not only accessible on iTunes...

Next, you will ask how to search within and reorder active playlist, unscramble the running order around a tune (in order to play the original album)... wink

No way to do that, AFAIK. And they have Hugo on board (they still have, don't they?)...

But still, I am more happy with my 160GB Classic than I thought I would be.

Bonzi
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#316138 - 09/11/2008 07:39 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5799
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: bonzi

iTunes supposedly determine the max volume at which tracks are encoded, and then there is sound check function on iPod, which should adjust the gain in order to normalize everything. Of course, like everything else, it doesn't work nearly as good as equivalent empeg functionality....

Unless you are listening to the Police wink Several of their tracks are completely ruined by auto volume adjust...
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#316144 - 09/11/2008 08:23 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Originally Posted By: bonzi
Next, you will ask how to search within and reorder active playlist, unscramble the running order around a tune (in order to play the original album)... wink


Ok, I get it, I am a spoiled Geek (proudly so) wink At least, in Apple's mind, I guess. smile

On that note, I suppose there's no way to have Albums (within an Artist) sorted by the year an not by their name. Oh well...

One thing really bothers me, so far. Audio quality at the standard headset output jack is really poor. Volume keeps being relatively low, even if I activate the auto-gain fucntion. Which I don't lilke in theory as it could well decrease ever further audio quality, as Andy is confirming. I just want to be able to increase and decrease the volume as needed, and have enough power to do so without problems. I'd happily use a thicker and heavier ipod to that purpose.
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= Taym =
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#316157 - 09/11/2008 12:44 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: taym
Ok, I get it, I am a spoiled Geek (proudly so) wink At least, in Apple's mind, I guess. smile

Well, not all Karma owners are geeks, and they have been spoiled like this and worse... wink

Originally Posted By: taym
On that note, I suppose there's no way to have Albums (within an Artist) sorted by the year an not by their name. Oh well...

In iTunes yes, I am not sure about iPod, but I mostly shuffle everything (or almost everything - for example, I usually play a list that skips long pieces - like those LvB's symphonies that BBC was kind enough to provide a few years ago), anyway.

Originally Posted By: taym
One thing really bothers me, so far. Audio quality at the standard headset output jack is really poor. Volume keeps being relatively low, even if I activate the auto-gain fucntion. Which I don't lilke in theory as it could well decrease ever further audio quality, as Andy is confirming. I just want to be able to increase and decrease the volume as needed, and have enough power to do so without problems. I'd happily use a thicker and heavier ipod to that purpose.

I also notice I am often at full throttle when listening through earphones. Even those with rubber seals are sometimes not loud enough.

Ah, well....
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#316164 - 09/11/2008 14:22 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
I just had here a friend who owns an iPod generation 5. By using his earphones, he confirmed that my iPod sounds definitely softer at full throttle. I need to make some test myself, but I am starting to tink that the iPod Classic (gen6, right) is somewhat worse in that regard. It really does not sound nice... frown on earphones...
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= Taym =
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#316166 - 09/11/2008 17:32 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
I've been looking for some real review of the most recent ipod classic 120GB, and here and there I read of people finding like me that the audio quality is rather low. Wikipedia reports this:
Quote:

According to certain tests performed both by hearing and through computer analysis of the sound, the 6th Generation iPods lack sound quality in the mid range, and produces less spatial information (i.e. stereo sound plays 'inside your head' instead of 'outside') due to higher impulse in the treble compared with 5G.[5] Apple has not yet commented on this problem.

A firmware update, 1.1.1, released by Apple for the iPod Classic is said to, among other things, improve the sound quality. [6] However, no details on these improvements were given on the Apple website.

Another later update, 1.1.2, is shown to correct bug fixes, but is nonetheless another minor update.


That really depitcts what I am hearing. And, the volume lever is rather low, as I said before.
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= Taym =
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#316169 - 09/11/2008 17:55 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You could try finding some different lower-impedance headphones. I don't know what the specs are on the earbuds that ship with iPods these days, but it's worth looking into.

Edit: The Apple web site says they're 32Ω. You could try the Denon AH-C351K, Etymotic ER-6i, or Sennheiser CX300-B headphones, which are all far lower impedance. Or you could try a portable amp, but that's probably not an ideal solution.


Edited by wfaulk (09/11/2008 18:04)
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#316172 - 09/11/2008 18:35 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: wfaulk]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Yes. I am planning to try some different headsets and earplugs, even though I already tried 3 high-end sennheizer and 1 high-end Sony. No significant improvement.

To tell you the truth, what I am honestly thinking I should really do is sell this iPod Classic on eBay to some iPod fan, since there are many, and get a Microsoft Zune, which I am learning more and more about. I am so mad with Apple as of now, that probably this makes me look at the Zune as a better device than it actually is. However, most review talk about extremely good audio quality for a portable player. I guess it is easy to beat the iPod in this.
Zune, however, does support lossless WMA files, which is extremely appealing. It has a bundled FM radio, and the iPod does not. It comes with WiFi (and iPod does not), a larger and nicer 3.2" display than the iPod, and it does have a number of nice accessories (alarm clock, docks of all kinds, etc.): not as many as the iPod's, but those that I need.
I am not even mentioning the FM-related features, as I am not really interested in tagging and downloading music on line. I just want to buy my CDs, rip them at the highest possible quality, and listen to them at the highest possible quality.

Sorry for venting. I just can't believe this thing sounds so bad. I've been testing a reading on-line all evening, and I am so disappointed.

All I need is to somehow test how the Zune integrates with the Alpine iDA-x100 which I am going to install in my car. If it does well (as I hope, since it is MTP compatible), I'll move to Zune in a second.

Quoting a CNN review (here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/10/06/review.zune/)
Quote:

Despite its lack of EQ controls, the Zune 120 sounds amazing over a good pair of headphones.

Now, this, like most review,may be somewhat biased. But they don't really sound they want to necessarily speak in favor of Zune.

If I wasn't laughing inside myself, I'd cry. For one time in my life when I bought something trusting the wide market success and random opinions, rather than gather data and facts, I am paying it as I deserve. I am such a Lemming.


Edited by taym (09/11/2008 18:50)
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316175 - 09/11/2008 19:32 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: taym
If I wasn't laughing inside myself, I'd cry. For one time in my life when I bought something trusting the wide market success and random opinions, rather than gather data and facts, I am paying it as I deserve. I am such a Lemming.

I bought a 160GB iPod Classic as soon as it came out, not expecting to like it too much, simply because it was the only player of such a capacity available in Croatia. I might have bought Archos 605 WiFi (a definitive overkill, since I am not into portable video) if someone was selling it locally, just to avoid Apple bandwagon.

That said, I am more satisfied with iPod "experience" than I thought I would be. That includes the sound quality. I guess this means I am not such an audiophile; I just like music wink.

Of course, the observation of weirdness of having Hugo in the company and still selling the flagship product with UI years behind his ten years old creation stands. crazy Sigh, I miss the days of rapid succession of betas accompanied by even more rapid stream of HiJacks and assorted other goodies...

Cheers!

Bonzi
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#316177 - 09/11/2008 20:39 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Actually, I don't consider myself an audiophile. Or, at least, not if that mean looking for unneeded audio quality just for the sake of it. I just try to get the quality I like, whatever that is. And, I honestly dislike the way this thing sounds. I find it worse than my cassette walkman form the 80s, and that's bad smile It's just flat, very lacking bass frequencies, lacking spatial stero effect, almost completely.

Volume level is also so low that I can listen to it at max volume without any problem. That's ok in house, but bad when going around with noise aroun you (busses, traffic - i use this in my bike commute to work). And, just to tell you how bad volume leve is: I mostly listen to radio when riding to work. In that specific occasion, I don't care about audio quality: I am listening to people talking and also I want to pay attention to noises around me. But, I want to understand what's being said. In some occasions, I just find it hard, just because of traffic noise. At max volume of course. Not good.

And, I am almost sure it is worse than G5 iPods, which I have listened to, occasionally. After ruling out all EQ and earplugs issues, I am left thinking they just decreased audio quality on the stereo jack in G6 .
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316180 - 09/11/2008 22:52 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: taym
I already tried 3 high-end sennheizer and 1 high-end Sony. No significant improvement.

What was their impedance, though? If it was the same, then that wouldn't improve the volume issue. Of course, I doubt that a new pair of headphones will significantly improve an audio quality problem that people have apparently tested empirically (I'm taking you at your word on that), but it should increase the volume.
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#316188 - 10/11/2008 05:02 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
My experience with Classic is not that bad, but I am rarely in busy, noisy traffic with it (and never on a bike). Actually, I usually listen to it through amp and speakers fed through the docking connector.

Could the low earphones volume be on purpose (you know, litigations about hearing damage and such nonsense)?
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#316190 - 10/11/2008 11:52 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Quote:
Actually, I usually listen to it through amp and speakers fed through the docking connector.


Actually, that's a good point. I have not tested it yet, but the line out from the dock (i.e. from the bottom of the iPod, and not from the top earplugs socket) is supposedly a completely different story. Everybody I spoke to reports a much better signal there. And, if you have a device who is actually reading the digital raw stream off the ipod, then quality entirely depends on that external device.
Now, I am planning to test the dock asap. I do not have one and I am reluctant to buy one at this point. But I should have a some occasions to test it anyway.

Also, for the records, today I tested an iPod 80 GB from almost two yrs ago, and it sounds louder than mine. Not much better in terms of quality using Apple standards earplugs, but definitely louder than mine at max volume.

wfaulk, as to the impedence, unfortunately I do not know. As soon as I have a second I'll report the model names here.
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316191 - 10/11/2008 12:08 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Could the volume issue be the legal cap Apple puts in place due to EU laws? If so, this appears to turn it off.
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#316194 - 10/11/2008 12:45 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Originally Posted By: taym
Now, I am planning to test the dock asap. I do not have one and I am reluctant to buy one at this point.

This cable should do the trick.
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#316208 - 10/11/2008 15:50 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: drakino]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Originally Posted By: drakino
If so, this appears to turn it off.

That guide is for an iPod touch. Not the same on a classic.

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#316221 - 10/11/2008 19:27 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: bonzi]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Originally Posted By: bonzi
Originally Posted By: taym
Now, I am planning to test the dock asap. I do not have one and I am reluctant to buy one at this point.

This cable should do the trick.


I did not know there was a volume cap in EU. In theory, that may very well be affecting the output quality as well, depending on how it works. However, as tman says, the link does not reflect the dir structure of the iPod Classic. I am now looking for something similar for the Classic!
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316224 - 10/11/2008 19:39 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok, somebody is saying all you need to do is increase the volume in iTunes.

I am trying this. However, does US iPod Classic owner in here have iTunes volume settings to +100% for all tracks, or is it at 0, as it is on mine? Maybe iTunes recognizes EU iPods and automatically sets the volume at 0 instead of +100% ?
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316229 - 10/11/2008 22:54 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok, the Internet is FULL of topics on this. The EU Volume Cap is affecting negatively so many people. Like me, hundreds of people can't listen to the iPod in traffic.
Now, I can reasonably assume this is not just me expecting too much from the iPod, and a real issue due to EU regulations.

Look at this, among the many i found: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=354326&page=2

I cannot express how much I disagree with laws like this one, in principle (this would deserve an entire other thread), but much more practically, my iPod sounds plain bad and I either find a solution to this, or I am going to sell this thing and get Zune or something else, before they get capped as well.
And, I feel so naive for not making some research and ask around before i purchased the iPod.

Does anybody have a Zune? Is the FM radio fully compatible with EU FM frequencies?
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316230 - 10/11/2008 23:19 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14130
Loc: Canada
Mmm.. Reading through that macrumors thread, post #81 poses a possible solution for you.

Another idea-- I wonder what happens if you pull down the Apple USA disk-initializer (or whatever they call it) s/w for the iPod and apply that to wipe the unit totally clean ? It's available, and normally used for drive replacement procedures..

Cheers

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#316232 - 10/11/2008 23:51 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: mlord]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Mark, actually I've been looking for some disk initializer for iPod, to no avail. I'd definitely try that. Also, do you know for sure the firmware is actually on the HDD?

I've also been trying to look for a US firmware somewhere, so far without success.

Post 81 is interesting. Before trying it, though, I wanted to make sure I can revert the change if something gets messed up. I am still reading...
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316233 - 11/11/2008 00:09 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14130
Loc: Canada
I was thinking of the Restore procedure described here, though it appears now to be done through iTunes.. You may need a non-EU iTunes account for this to do what I'm hoping it can do.

Cheers

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#316236 - 11/11/2008 01:41 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: mlord]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Ok. Increasing the volume to 100% in iTunes does not help. It simply allows you to reach the maximum volume "earlier" on the volume bar. It seems ti simply makes the volume increase non linear with the volume bar. That is strange, to me. I do not get the purpose of such a feature. Max volume is stil the same. Poor quality is unchanged.

So, I have only two options left, I believe:

1. Installing some US firmware or software in the iPod. I don't know how. Maybe, as you suggest Mark, trying to use some US-based iTune account.
2. Apply the change to the iPod sw using the Hex editor. Very risky as even simple software upgrades may make this change very unsafe.

Anyway, I am still hoping that the volume increase will also bring aome quality increase, assuming the volume cap has some side effect on sound quality. If not, this still remains a very low quality audio device in that regard.
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316237 - 11/11/2008 01:44 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
... oh, and Bonzi, thanks very much for the link. Yes, that cable could be a good solution, as it allows you to take the output from the dock connector.

However, I realized I already have one: the external iPod radio is, in fact, also such a connector: you plug the earplugs into the external radio, which is plugged to the dock connector. And... minimal change, close to none. I do hear some improvement, and noiced it since day one not understanding why. But, still very poor quality and low volume.

Other users report the same in several forums. So, I am assuming the volume cap is applied also to the dock connector, since some versions onwards...
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316241 - 11/11/2008 02:54 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Originally Posted By: taym
Ok. Increasing the volume to 100% in iTunes does not help. It simply allows you to reach the maximum volume "earlier" on the volume bar. It seems ti simply makes the volume increase non linear with the volume bar. That is strange, to me. I do not get the purpose of such a feature. Max volume is stil the same.

If it is doing that then there is a bug. It should cap the maximum volume to be something less.

I've never had any issues with the volume cap. If I get anywhere near the maximum on my limited iPod, it starts getting painful to listen to.

It may just be that the audio output stage in the classic just isn't very good. There appear to be users from all over the world complaining about bad sound quality so I don't think it is the EU volume cap.

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#316247 - 11/11/2008 05:44 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: tman]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2420
Loc: Roma, Italy
Quote:
If it is doing that then there is a bug.

in iPodwizard.net I ofund somebody who is experiencing exactly the same, and claims that by design. Unfortunately I can't find it right now, but I'll look again as soon as I can.
Which does not mean it is not a bug, of course...
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#316252 - 11/11/2008 12:57 Re: iPod Classic 120: some questions [Re: Taym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Originally Posted By: taym
Quote:
If it is doing that then there is a bug.

in iPodwizard.net I ofund somebody who is experiencing exactly the same, and claims that by design.

Nope. It should limit the maximum volume.

Do you have a dock handy? It should do lineout and you can listen to see if the sound quality is also affected on that.

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