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#340219 - 06/12/2010 22:28 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3452
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
fwiw, I can believe they've shipped that many without much convincing - demo models appear to be *everywhere* in the US, plus there are plenty of whole countries that don't officially have the iPad yet.

The world's a pretty big place....

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#340236 - 07/12/2010 05:20 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
graynada
new poster

Registered: 17/03/2010
Posts: 32
Loc: Portsmouth, UK
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
sub-par Galaxy product line.


I have had a Samsung Galaxy Portal i5700 phone running Android 1.5 for 9 months now and I am very happy with it. I am no expert but it does everything it was advertised to do, quick enough and with (to date) no bugs. Great value too at 50 for the phone + 15 a month contract including 300 mins, and unlimited data and texts.
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Mk2 v509 hijack
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#341721 - 31/01/2011 16:02 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Dignan
You do understand that "shipped" is completely different from "sold," right? You seem to be saying they're the same thing. I can easily see Samsung shipping 1 million units to stores, and that doesn't mean they've sold anywhere close to that many.

Looks like a Samsung exec came clean and did confirm the now 2 million number was purely shipped to vendors, while end user sales are "quite small".

This may lead to some pretty good discounts soon for a Galaxy Tab, especially with news coming out about Honeycomb now. I'm surprised Samsung doesn't maintain a smaller channel inventory with their general consumer electronics experience.
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Tom

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#341722 - 31/01/2011 16:03 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: graynada]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
BAM!: Samsung says Galaxy Tab sales to consumers actually 'quite small'

Like this is at all surprising.

Quote:

The Wall Street Journal reports, those two million Galaxy Tabs that Samsung reported it had "sold" in the fourth quarter of last year were apparently not actual sales to consumers, but simply sales to distributors ... Samsung's Lee Young-hee further explained on an earnings call on Friday that so-called "sell-out" sales to customers were actually "quite small," but she wouldn't provide a specific number.


I'd be surprised if it's even close to 1 million sold to consumers yet. They're going to get stuck with a lot of these in the channel once models from other manufacturers start to ship in volume. CES was a tablet blowout with at least 100 models announced, shown or otherwise demonstrated. But, right now everyone is waiting on the iPad 2 announcement from Apple - the only tablet anyone really cares about and unsurprisingly, the only one that's going to do any lucrative business this year.

That said, you'd think that with the much lower software development costs for other manufacturers, they'd be able to turn out at least a decent profit while beating the iPad's price. So far the only way they've shown lower prices has been through carrier subsidies. Things don't look good for Samsung's current generation of Tab. Have they announced an Android 3 plan for it?
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341723 - 31/01/2011 16:04 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Damn Tom, you were posting at the same time I was. wink
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341724 - 31/01/2011 16:34 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
K447
addict

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 696
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
...CES was a tablet blowout with at lest 100 models shown and demonstrated...
I have also seen that 100+ number, but the CES tablet lists I have seen show Freescale as being the 'manufacturer' of 24 of them.

Removing Freescale from the list brings the count down to a still large 75+

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#341725 - 31/01/2011 16:45 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5787
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
The Tab is also under threat by the next version of the Tab, which Samsung have already started muttering about appearing very soon. That isn't likely to help sales.
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#341728 - 31/01/2011 17:52 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
The most amusing thing to me is, that despite the iPad's dominance, all these companies will make more money with that competition rather than without it. The current tablet category simply wouldn't exist without Apple. The iPad has created the mindshare which has lead to opening the market for alternatives and it's created the business case for others to develop their own OSes (Google, HP, RIM).

It's a chance for a lot of manufacturers to move on form the crappy netbook mire they've been stuck in for the past two or three years.

EDIT. Except RIM. I expect that their tablet is going to carve some deep loses into their balance sheet. IMO, they should really cut their loses right now and abandon the proprietary tablet and instead focus on how to better leverage iOS and Android devices to their advantage. HP's chances with WebOS on a tablet are marginal, RIM's with the Playbook? Non-existant. If they sell ten thousand units by the end of 2011 I'll be flabbergasted.


Edited by hybrid8 (31/01/2011 21:21)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341751 - 01/02/2011 15:07 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Apparently Samsung has back-tracked and says the VP actually said "quite smooth" and not "quite small." Seems to be semantics to me, as the important part is that the 2 million unit count is only a production count and not a sell-through count. And by not releasing a real number during an earnings call, they're speaking volumes about the lack of volume.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341829 - 03/02/2011 18:25 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Here's some fun with numbers... You read it here first.

Samsung just announced that the return rate on the tab is actually "under 2%" and not 16% as has been widely reported.

Here's an interesting thought however.... What if BOTH Samsung and the research firms are correct?

What if Samsung's number is based on their distribution shipments of "2 million" units and the report numbers are based actual sales (what stores would report).

Let's assume the "under 2%" is 1.8% to give them some wiggle room.

That means 36000 returns on 2 million units. For which 36000 is 16% of 225000 units. (100/16= 6.25 x 36k = 225k)

That may mean that only 225k units have actually been sold to customers. Of which 36k have been returned.

250k if you use exactly 2% in above calculation. In either case, it sounds like a runaway success to me.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341832 - 03/02/2011 20:17 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
I'm not saying that they sold a ton of these things, or anywhere close to 2m, but doesn't it seem odd that they would keep manufacturing so many of them if they were only selling one out of every eight they made? I don't doubt your math, Bruno, but it seems strange to me...

Also, I do see a distinction between "quite slow" and "quite smooth." The latter sounds like a positive statement to me, although it's a weird phrase that I've never heard before in this context, but there might be a language barrier there. What I find strange is that apparently people have listened again to the statement and said that it's pretty clear he said "smooth." Why, in that case, did the press jump on this statement and run with "slow?" That seems like pretty irresponsible reporting to me.
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#341833 - 03/02/2011 20:30 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
The person doing the transcription of the earnings call made the mistake of typing out "small" instead of "smooth". A Wall Street Journal blogger read the transcript (instead of listening to the live call), then published a story. From there, it just snowballed in the echo chamber of the internet. Even though the WSJ made a correction hours later, there were probably hundreds of other places that still had the "small" part.
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Tom

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#341834 - 03/02/2011 20:59 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Ah, gotcha. Some transcriber got a reprimand...
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Matt

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#341835 - 03/02/2011 21:32 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
It was Sammy's transcription too I believe.

I'm not saying that my mathematical hypothesis is true, I just thought, void of any concrete numbers either way, it would be interesting.

Samsung may have had 2 or 3 million forecast based on input from distributors and carriers, who took those units but have so far been unable to move them as planned. It wouldn't be the first time where the vast majority of a certain product has been left sitting on shelves and warehouses.

Can anyone remember the E.T. game for the ATARI 2600? wink


Edited by hybrid8 (03/02/2011 21:32)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341847 - 04/02/2011 08:22 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5787
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I still have't managed to walk into a consumer electronics store and find a Tab that is actually connected to a network of any sort.

I suspect if I went into a mobile network operator's shop I'd find the Tab display model connected to a network, but I have no desire to venture into one of those hell holes wink
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#341851 - 04/02/2011 12:06 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: andy]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: andy
I still have't managed to walk into a consumer electronics store and find a Tab that is actually connected to a network of any sort.

To counter that, I've only seen them connected.
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Matt

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#341951 - 06/02/2011 22:45 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Motorola's Xoom supposedly comes out February 24 for $799 for a 32GB model. That's about $70 more than an equivalent iPad. For $30 more you can buy a 64GB iPad with 3G. Or drop the cell connection and get it for $100 less ($200 less for 32GB).

Not to mention a new iPad will probably be announced in the next 30-60 days.

Not content with copying Apple's product, they've also copied their iconic 1984 commercial - but with literally no impact. Never mind that the Mac, at the time, was unique and revolutionary, not simply one of 101 nearly identical devices, all of which are mere imitators. I also think a lot of people will see the commercial and simply think the device is an iPad.

I predict. Failure of epic proportions.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341956 - 07/02/2011 00:19 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5402
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
I also think a lot of people will see the commercial and simply think the device is an iPad.
I am most definitely not an Apple fanboy, and when it comes to Apple products, Bruno and I rarely see eye to eye. But this time Bruno is right. I watched the commercial and as far as I can tell it will sell more iPads than Xooms.

tanstaafl.
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#341968 - 07/02/2011 05:42 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: tanstaafl.]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Yeah, they definitely failed to get the message across. I don't share Bruno's vitriol against anything not-Apple, but it's clear that the Xoom is going to have problems.

That's a shame, too, because it looks like really great hardware and just the product for me. Unfortunately it's just way overpriced frown

I assume you're looking at the Best Buy ad story, Bruno? Did you also notice this? "To activate wifi on this device, a minimum of 1 month data subscription is required." Seriously? You'll allow me to use WiFi only if I buy a month of your wireless data plan?

Also, they're charging $20 for 1GB of data per month. I wonder how much you'll have to pay for 4G when that comes out (they're going to upgrade Xoom owners to 4G at some point, at least that was what they were saying at one point).

Man, this is really discouraging.
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Matt

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#341969 - 07/02/2011 05:57 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
By the way, have you guys seen the pricing for Motorola's other hot new product, the Atrix 4G? I think it's a cool device with an intriguing idea, but the latest word is that the phone will be $200 (no surprise there, all phones start there), and that the laptop dock can be purchased in a bundle with the phone for $500 total. If you buy the dock later it's $500 on its own.

If you're unfamiliar with this phone, the cool idea is that you slip it into this laptop dock and get a web browser-like OS. The phone provides all the guts and the dock is essentially a keyboard, screen, and battery.

Yes, a keyboard, screen, and battery that costs $500 (or, yes, $300). At that point, why not just buy a netbook?

Want to know the kicker? If you buy the laptop dock, you're required to sign up for a hotspot plan. Insanity! You're popping a cell phone that already has a data plan into a completely dumb dock. First, this means that while the phone is docked you're just using the regular old cellular data connection directly. Second, the only reason to buy the dock in the first place (and spend an absurd amount of money) is to eliminate the need to carry around a laptop and connect it to your phone with a hotspot.

I find it amazing that even though we have far more competition in the cellular arena than local broadband, the companies seem worse!

Motorola had a good run there. Android saved them from the brink and yet they're still determined to jump off the cliff.
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Matt

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#341971 - 07/02/2011 11:36 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5787
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I see Bruno has been Fireballed* wink

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/02/05/galaxy-tab-numbers

* though actually he hasn't as his blog is still up, dreamhost FTW shocked
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#341972 - 07/02/2011 12:25 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
And the fact I run static pages, not Wordpress. smile

Matt, it's not anything non-Apple, it's anything that takes a shot at Apple yet does absolutely nothing new, instead trying only to ride Apple's coat tails on every level.

Motorla are going to get their asses handed to them this year. I believe that $500 dock is more than just a battery, keyboard and screen. I was under the impression it contained an additional processor, though I may have skimmed an article too quickly and be completely off base about that.

Most of these manufacturers are content to continue with business practices that have simply not been showing them record growth over the past few years. WHile they copy Apple on many levels they simply fail to see the most important lesson, which is that they need to change the way they do business. If they copied Apple on this front, they could probably be successful with any number of products instead of Apple iOS clones.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341974 - 07/02/2011 12:44 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Motorla are going to get their asses handed to them this year. I believe that $500 dock is more than just a battery, keyboard and screen. I was under the impression it contained an additional processor, though I may have skimmed an article too quickly and be completely off base about that.

I'm pretty certain it isn't, but I'll have to do a little research.

Even if it did have additional processing power in there, it would still be a horribly overpriced item.

For a moment, I was actually considering the Atrix and its accessories, as I love the idea of it. But that was at the point where I thought the dock might be $200 or something. This kind of crap isn't worth going back to AT&T.

I'm hoping that the G-Slate won't be as absurdly overpriced, but now I'm so discouraged that I don't have high hopes for that.
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Matt

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#341977 - 07/02/2011 13:03 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Yes, way over-priced at $500. When I first heard about the Atrix I thought it wouldn't need a sold-separately accessory at all. I thought its regular charging/docking station let you do all that faux computer crap.

Anyway, it's Motorola. They only make crap consumer devices so even if it shot double rainbows out of a special port I'd stay as far away from it as possible.

Hmmm... I just remembered something. Weren't you saying you didn't need/want a tablet at all last year? smile
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341982 - 07/02/2011 14:36 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Hmmm... I just remembered something. Weren't you saying you didn't need/want a tablet at all last year? smile

While I wasn't 100% against them this time last year, I was still highly skeptical. It wasn't until I tried owning one (by buying one to give as a gift after using it) that I really realized how useful they would be. In another month or so, I'll probably write a new review of my experience with the iPad, as my usage has shifted a bit over time. I think I'm actually using it more now then even 11 months ago when I was first exploring.

I'll be interested in some coworkers thoughts today, as some of them were really hyped about the Xoom. I don't think they were expecting the cost to be that high, as one in particular always assumes Apple overcharges for their products, including the iPad. Now we also have Samsung and Motorola in the field, and neither have been able to undercut the price by any meaningful amount. There are aspect of the Xoom that interest me, but I have my concerns about what it lacks too. I'll post more later, since it ties into how I've used my iPad over the past 11 months.
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#341983 - 07/02/2011 14:39 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
No one has the supply chain management prowess of Apple and no one else does the volumes nor has the capital to assure steep discounts on parts like Apple. They knew when the released the iPad that no one else was gong to touch the price and features.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341990 - 07/02/2011 15:35 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Hmmm... I just remembered something. Weren't you saying you didn't need/want a tablet at all last year? smile

I did at first. But I, unlike you, was able to change my mind wink

My initial reaction to the iPad was based on how over-hyped it was. There was a ton of talk about how great it was as a content creation device, and I really don't think that's panned out. I had no interest in that and couldn't see why I'd want one.

Later, I decided that a tablet would be a great way to read my comics. That's pretty much the entire reason I want one. I don't think it's a device that will change my life or anything, it'll just be a nice way to read with my wife.
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#341994 - 07/02/2011 15:50 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I did at first. But I, unlike you, was able to change my mind wink


I change my mind all the time. I was for example, about to buy a plane ticket and come out to visit you so I could crack you on the head for that comment, but I've since decided against it. wink I said the iPad wasn't for me and I still don't know how much use I'd get out of it as a general computing device. I did say that I could think of numerous vertical applications, but I didn't have that kind of money to throw at solving any one problem.

But now I'm considering getting an iPad 2 shortly after they come out, primarily so my daughter (who will be 2 this summer) can start using a computer.


Quote:
My initial reaction to the iPad was based on how over-hyped it was. There was a ton of talk about how great it was as a content creation device, and I really don't think that's panned out.


Actually, I think it's been the opposite. It was billed by everyone as being only for content consumption - and continues to get the same comments from many in the press and analysts. However, it turns out that it's being used all the time by a lot of folks for content creation. Interesting stories abound.

There are a lot of great kid-oriented learning apps and games, so I think it's the best way to expose my daughter to computing at an early age. I can't really risk my primary notebook to that end, nor is it as portable (17" model). I have no doubt that I'll use it for some web surfing on the couch as well instead of the notebook, but it's mainly because of the kid.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#341997 - 07/02/2011 15:54 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I did at first. But I, unlike you, was able to change my mind wink


I change my mind all the time. I was for example, about to buy a plane ticket and come out to visit you so I could crack you on the head for that comment, but I've since decided against it. wink

Yeah, that was snippy, sorry about that smile

I think you're forgetting much of that initial announcement where Jobs touted all the great ways you could create using the iPad. I think 95% of people today only use it to consume.
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Matt

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#342001 - 07/02/2011 15:59 Re: Samsung Tab [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I think at least 95% of people use regular computers to just consume. smile
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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