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#350227 - 13/02/2012 15:57 best Bluetooth headset?
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
I appear to have misplaced my Jawbone Icon so I'm apparently shopping for a new one. I used that thing a lot and it mostly did the job. On windy days, it would still pick up on wind noise, but otherwise the noise reduction stuff was pretty magical. I could be walking by a leaf-blower and whoever I was talking to would be able to hear me without issue. Never mind that I couldn't hear them at all.

So, the default choice is to buy another one ($55 at Amazon) or maybe to try the "HD" model ($95 at Amazon) or the "Era" ($96 at Amazon). I suppose the Era might be attractive for having a newer version of the noise cancellation feature, but the price is notably steeper.

(EDIT: $96, not $130 for the Era.)

I'm not really up to date on the competition in this space. Do any other vendors come close?

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#350228 - 13/02/2012 16:31 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: DWallach]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: DWallach
So, the default choice is to buy another one ($55 at Amazon) or maybe to try the "HD" model ($100 at Amazon) or the "Era" ($130 at Amazon). I suppose the Era might be attractive for having a newer version of the noise cancellation feature, but the price is notably steeper.

I'm not really up to date on the competition in this space. Do any other vendors come close?

I'm sorry, I'm definitely not up on the bluetooth headset market, not having used one in years, but that Era looks to me like it's listed at $96, not $130...
_________________________
Matt

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#350230 - 13/02/2012 17:06 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: Dignan]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin


Voice Activity Sensor. So, microphone?

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#350232 - 13/02/2012 17:45 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: RobotCaleb]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: RobotCaleb
Voice Activity Sensor. So, microphone?
No, no, no! It's not just a mere microphone, it's a VAS. Everybody knows that anything that can be designated with an acronym is at least twice as good (and twice the price) of junk that can only be described with words.

Wake up, man!

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#350233 - 13/02/2012 18:03 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
It's some sort of bone conduction sensor, so it's a bit more sophisticated than a bog-standard microphone, requiring some amount of DSP on the back-end to clean up the signal.

(Also, I fixed the Era's price. I think $130 is the MSRP.)

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#350239 - 14/02/2012 01:44 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: DWallach]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
I have this jabra extreme2 it's good but for one unforgivable flaw. With this in one ear, turning that ear to the rear tends to produce dropouts. This with the source gadget in the shirt pocket. Sorry but a drop at less than about 18" just don't cut it.
_________________________
Glenn

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#350241 - 14/02/2012 04:03 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: gbeer]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: gbeer
I have this jabra extreme2 it's good but for one unforgivable flaw. With this in one ear, turning that ear to the rear tends to produce dropouts. This with the source gadget in the shirt pocket. Sorry but a drop at less than about 18" just don't cut it.

Sadly that's not unusual for bluetooth headsets (in my experience, at least - but I'm the bluetooth hater around here). I'm not saying it happens to all of them, but depending on your environment and where everything is in relation to your body mass, if that signal has to go through your body it's going to have a hard time with many bluetooth devices.

I've gone through four different bluetooth headphones for wearing when I go out walking/jogging or on the treadmill. They've all been disasters. With the phone in my right pocket I'd only have signal about half the time, cutting out about every two seconds. It was maddening. If the phone was in my left pocket I wouldn't get anything. In my shirt pocket I'd get about 75% connection but it still sucked. So the first four headsets I tried (all of which had the bluetooth receiver in the right ear) got returned or sold.

Then I got the fifth set. I freaking love these Jaybird JF3's. I'm still getting used to the whole thing with them going in my ear canal, which I've never really liked, but everything else about them is pretty darn great:

-Good battery
-Great sound
-Very durable (and warrantied for sweat damage)
-Stays on my ears (with the included loops)
-Playback/volume controls
-and finally, they keep their connection!

When I have my phone in my right pocket, I get no drop out.
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Matt

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#350244 - 14/02/2012 11:19 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: DWallach]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: DWallach
I'm not really up to date on the competition in this space. Do any other vendors come close?
I don't own, nor have I ever used (or to the best of my knowledge even seen a Bluetooth device, so this recommendation should be looked at skeptically. But... I have had extraordinary results (product and support) from a company called Arriva with their iPod Shuffle headphones. They have discontinued them, and now offer a Bluetooth headset. If the new Bluetooth headset works as well as the previous "regular" headset it might be well worth looking into.

Just my 1/8 peso's worth...

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#350245 - 14/02/2012 13:03 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Ultimately, I decided to order the Jawbone Era. The main competition is the BlueAnt Q2. The Amazon reviews are what really threw the decision for me. Professional reviews from various web sites, don't go into the same level of detail.

I made the decision based on people's reports of comfort (several were unhappy with how the BlueAnt feels), noise cancellation (several reports that the Jawbone is superior), and of course size (it's the smallest -- I need something that can disappear into a pocket, since I refuse to be one of those people who walks around all day with a thing in their ear even when they're not on the phone).

Sigh.

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#350325 - 23/02/2012 17:04 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: tanstaafl.
I have had extraordinary results (product and support) from a company called Arriva with their iPod Shuffle headphones. They have discontinued them, and now offer a Bluetooth headset.


Although I'm not interested in that model of headset, your link made me find something much more interesting to me. When I skimmed their web site, I was fascinated by their partnering with Acoustibuds. I had never seen that product before, and it seemed very interesting and useful. So I ordered some (they're cheap) and they're not bad at all!

Because my househould contains several ipods and iphones, those little white earbuds are lying around everywhere, collecting dust because they sound so terrible when compared to proper seal-in earbuds like the Fontopias. Although they don't work miracles, the Acoustibuds go a long way towards achieving the same thing the Fontopias et al do. When using the Acoustibuds with a pair of ipod headphones, I notice a small but distinct increase in bass response in the lowest frequencies, a large reduction in ambient noise, increased wearability and comfort, and a greater tendency to stay put in my ears. Suddenly all those ipod headphones are usable again.

Curious what else was on the market, I did some googling and also discovered these earbud covers which are more fontopia-like, and ordered some to try out. They haven't arrived yet, but I'm curious if they have the same kind of result.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350399 - 26/02/2012 16:13 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Follow-up: The Jabone Era is notably larger than the Icon that it replaced. It's also got longer battery life. Noise cancellation in light wind is modestly better than the Icon. Noise cancellation in significant wind (15+ mph) is still useless. I could only have a conversation if I cupped my hand over my ear, which somewhat defeats the purpose of having a Bluetooth headset.

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#350406 - 26/02/2012 22:11 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: tfabris
[with Acoustibuds...] I notice a small but distinct increase in bass response in the lowest frequencies, a large reduction in ambient noise, increased wearability and comfort, and a greater tendency to stay put in my ears
I'm taking you at your word, and ordered some for myself, particularly for the tendency to stay put. I have yet to find a set of ear buds that will seal tightly in my ears, even the Fontopias won't block ambient noise and stay inserted.

It is costing me just about twice the cost of the Acoustibuds for shipping and import duty, but if they work, it'll be worth it.

If they don't work, it'll be all your fault! smile smile

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#350492 - 28/02/2012 16:30 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
If they don't work, it'll be all your fault!


Disclaimer: I still prefer the fontopias to the acoustibuds. All that the acoustibuds accomplish is to turn previously-useless Apple iPod Earbuds into something marginally useful.

When I listed the things that the Acoustibuds improved, I meant, those were improvements over the plain Apple iPod Earbuds, not improvements over the fontopias.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350512 - 29/02/2012 00:44 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: tfabris
All that the acoustibuds accomplish is to turn previously-useless Apple iPod Earbuds into something marginally useful.
The Acoustibuds look like they will do a better job of fitting into my ears, sealing tightly, and staying there. Apparently my ear canals are unusual, because I have never been able to use the in-the-ear type ear buds (like the Fontopias) because they just won't stay in place for me.

We'll see if the Acoustibuds do better for me.

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#350514 - 29/02/2012 16:37 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
It certainly looks like there's a chance of success there. They Acoustibuds definitely stay in place on me when I jam them in there nice and tight. Let us know how it goes. :-)
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350575 - 06/03/2012 15:27 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Okay, after comparing the Acoustibuds to the iBuds, I have the following conclusions:

- Both are successful at making the iPhone earbuds sound better, enough to be moderately usable in terms of sound quality.

- Neither will magically make the iPhone earbuds sound as good as a set of actual fontopia earbuds.

- Acoustibuds stay sealed into my ears much better.

- iBuds sound slightly better, by virtue of getting the speakers a bit closer to my eardrums.

- iBuds do not wrap tightly enough around the earphone to stay put. For instance, when I am pulling the headphones out of my ears, the iBud sometimes stays in my ear instead of staying with the earphone. I may experiment with a touch of RTV around the edge to keep them attached to the earphone.

- Acoustibuds wrap very tightly around the earphone and stay put.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350607 - 07/03/2012 14:00 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: tfabris
- iBuds sound slightly better, by virtue of getting the speakers a bit closer to my eardrums.
This is not even a slight consideration as the only things I listen to on my Shuffle are audio books, downloaded as 32kbps WMA files and transcoded to 64-128kbps variable bit rate MP3s. And yes (don't ask me why) upconverting does improve the sound quality, particularly in the lower registers.

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#350708 - 09/03/2012 17:54 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: tfabris
... comparing the Acoustibuds to the iBuds...

- iBuds do not wrap tightly enough around the earphone to stay put. For instance, when I am pulling the headphones out of my ears, the iBud sometimes stays in my ear instead of staying with the earphone. I may experiment with a touch of RTV around the edge to keep them attached to the earphone.


RTV experiment successful. ibuds work well with the RTV around the edge keeping them stuck to the ipod headphones instead of falling off.

Again, still not as good as a proper ground-up earbud, but it makes my white ipod/iphone headphones useful now, when they just gathered dust before.

Given the choice between Acoustibuds and iBuds:

- if sound quality is more important, then the iBuds get the nod because they get the speakers closer to your eardrums. Only if you're willing to do the RTV trick, though.

- if staying in your ear is more important (i.e., for exercising) then the Acoustibuds get the nod because they stay in my ears much better. Also you don't have to do the RTV trick.

_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350709 - 09/03/2012 18:11 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Random thoughts on the Jawbone Era after using it for a few weeks:

- Noise cancellation is brilliant for loud leaf blowers but useless for wind.

- There's some serious high frequency attenuation. They really need an equalizer or something to fix this. I suspect it's a side-effect of the way they redesigned the ear grommets to make them slightly more comfortable.

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#350720 - 10/03/2012 04:54 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Originally Posted By: tfabris
not as good as a proper ground-up earbud

Have you been sending your headphones to Blendtec again? wink
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Bitt Faulk

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#350761 - 12/03/2012 14:30 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Now I'm picturing Bill and Ted, staring at rack at the local Best Buy, saying "dude, this says these thing are BUDS..."
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#350772 - 12/03/2012 22:51 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Latest: I've decided to get a custom molded earpiece for my Jawbone. It's a bit pricey, but it might solve the muffled sound I get, and it's also supposed to be lots more comfortable. We'll see.

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#352492 - 05/06/2012 21:37 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: tfabris
It certainly looks like there's a chance of success there. They Acoustibuds definitely stay in place on me when I jam them in there nice and tight. Let us know how it goes. :-)
Agreed. No problems keeping the Acoustibuds in my ears. But big problem keeping the Acoustibuds attached to the earbuds.

The Acoustibuds are made of Silicone, and no adhesive known to man will stick to them. If I clean the outside of the earbuds and the inside of the Acoustibuds with soap and water, then with alcohol, they will stay attached for a few days. But then normal skin oils work their way in and make things slippery and when I pull them out of my ear, the earbuds come out and the acoustibuds stay in.

RTV Silicone will work for a while, but eventually it comes loose from the Acoustibuds.

My latest attemp is to make three pointy little epoxy pyramids spaced around the outer rim of the earbud, and stretch the Acoustibuds over them. If the epoxy holds on the earbuds, this may work. I'll let you know.

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#352525 - 06/06/2012 16:32 Re: best Bluetooth headset? [Re: tanstaafl.]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Now that I've had my custom molded earpiece for a while, I'll chime in here. What good is that it's quite comfortable in the ear. Once you get it snapped in, it's quite light and pleasant. It's not pushing your ear canal to be wider, like normal earplugs or canal-phones do.

Sound quality, sadly, is no improvement over the stock rubber bits that came with my Jawbone. High frequencies are still seriously attenuated.

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