Remote Overlay
Posted by: alear
Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 09:44
Has anyone tried to create an empeg specific remote overlay? I was thinking it might be possible to do this with creating the overlay in a graphics program. Then printing on sticky back paper. It would probably need a coating over it to avoid wearing away. It also may need a slight lift off the main surface to account for the button thickness. I have access to a color laser printer and a tektronics wax printer. Any suggestions?
Alex Lear
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 09:52
I'd thought about doing this as well. But a paper sticker would just get all cruddy and worn-out, especially on the buttons. You could cut out holes where the buttons are, but that presents a set of its own problems. It's easier just to memorize the functions.
And, if I remember correctly, the guys@empeg said they're working on getting their own custom remote made.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: altman
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 09:55
Yes, we're working on the custom remote; we should have some samples by the end of the month (we will post pictures :) ) but I'm not sure what the actual production lead time will be.
Hugo
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 10:55
Is it still going to be the existing Kenwood remote with new labels or are you going for something different all-together? I would love to see an empeg-unique remote! But I'd also like the other option too.
DiGNAN
13653
Posted by: Kureg
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 11:14
In reply to:
Is it still going to be the existing Kenwood remote with new labels or are you going for something different all-together? I would love to see an empeg-unique remote! But I'd also like the other option too.
I like the idea of the credit card sized remote. If you are going to create your own remote, please don't make it big and bulky! 
Kureg
Posted by: altman
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 11:23
It's empeg-unique, though the same size and form factor as the Kenwood. The plastic on our current sample is silver, unlike the black on the kenwood.
Hugo
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 11:30
It's empeg-unique, though the same size and form factor as the Kenwood. The plastic on our current sample is silver, unlike the black on the kenwood.I gotta say it: You guys RULE!
DiGNAN
13653
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 11:35
What does same form-factor mean? Does that mean the same button layout in terms of number and function?
DiGNAN
13653
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 11:49
What does same form-factor mean?
Same size and shape.
Buttons would be approximately the same size, shape, and position, but the actual electronic functions of the buttons could be completely rearranged to Empeg's whims. The new remote would also use a completely different set of IR codes (although the Kenwood ones would be still work with the players for backwards compatibility).
And, of course, everything would be labeled properly.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: tadzio
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 12:32
If it's not too late: can you add some "mark" to the body of the remote so that you can actually feel (without having to look) if you hold it correctly, with the IR LED facing away from you, or with the LED facing towards you? This should probably have gone to the Wish List forum, but it just fitted in this thread here....
Daniel
---
"My software never has bugs. It just develops random features."
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 13:58
If it's not too late: can you add some "mark" to the body of the remote so that you can actually feel (without having to look) if you hold it correctly, with the IR LED facing away from you, or with the LED facing towards you?This has been discussed before. If I think about it, I can feel for the battery hatch, but often I don't do that and end up pressing 1 and 4 instead of the volume up/down buttons. That's how I know I've got it upside down: Nothing happens when I press the buttons.
Others use a piece of tape or velcro placed asymmetrically on the bottom of the remote.
You're right, though, that if it's possible to do it, that would be a nice feature. I'm not sure it would be possible or not since they're pretty much contracting the work on the remotes from someone else (as I understand it).
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: GeorgeLSJr
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 15:15
Why not just replace the one that ships with the Empeg with
this one?
And Doug thought thermal photos of the Empeg were geeky?
George
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 16:29
Or, even better still...
http://www.marantz.com/db/?MIval=h_product_full&prod_id=414
Funny you should mention the RC2000. Just got a Marantz AV9000 and MM9000 and it comes with the RC2000! Great remote...
Yes, I'm a geek!
- Jon
Posted by: gb14772
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 16:56
The RC2000 is OLD technology. The best remote ever made
is the Philips Pronto (and there is a Marantz-branded version too,
Philips owns Marantz). I have both, and there is no comparison.
http://www.pronto.philips.com/Pronto is fully programmable through a PC, you can make custom
screens for it, and fully customize it to your needs. RC2000 pales
in comparison. You need to be a geek to program the Pronto, but you
can make it simple to use, so you don't need to be a geek to use it.
Check it out, you'll never go back to the RC2000.
-gbeck
Still waiting #145xx.....
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 17:30
Dang! I gotta get me one of them!
You know, ebay has seven of them on auction right now... not cheap, though!
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
Posted by: GeorgeLSJr
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 17:30
Actually, I've seen the LCD remotes and am planning to get one. The only problem with using it with the empeg is that you can't FEEL the buttons to know which one you're pressing. You actually HAVE to look at the remote in order to use a touch screen... unless of course, you can tell how far each "button" is from the side of the remote simply by moving your finger the precise amount required to get to the desired button. Are you that good?
Seriously, I love those LCD remotes... but for the empeg? It's not gonna work well. You actually need buttons that you can feel are physically different from one another.
George
Posted by: dionysus
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 17:35
..The main problem that i have with lcd-screen remotes is that I like the feel of the buttons too much! It's the same reason that I don't like glidepads on laptops (I prefer the middle-button mouse..); there's just something about being able to feel what you're doing:)
-mark
...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
Posted by: GeorgeLSJr
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 17:46
Yeah, I really like that remote, too. I'd bid on ebay, but I just don't trust the people selling stuff on there. (No offense to anyone who does from here and it legit, but I'm just not comfortable with it... been burned before.)
George
Posted by: rob
Re: Remote Overlay - 18/08/2000 17:53
We can't add a raised mark (as far as I'm aware) but we are arranging the layout so that the 1 and 4 keys don't do anything in normal playback mode - so if you hold it the wrong way round and try to change volume, nothing annoying will happen (apart from the lack of volume changing!).
The sample also has an activity LED in one corner, but I'm not sure if that will be present on the production models.
Rob
Posted by: TommyE
Re: Remote Overlay - 19/08/2000 01:47
Have a look at the Marantz5000 instead, it REALLY rocks....
TommyE
Posted by: bootsy
Re: Remote Overlay - 19/08/2000 13:46
Who you calling a geek?
I've got a Phillips Pronto. The ultimate in Geek Chic... I am an artist (okay, "art-geek") and was swayed by the ability to import graphics for the LCD.
Personally, I miss the tactile nature of old-school remotes, but nothing beats the power to program the pronto. You can set it up to hide all the scarey stuff so your girlfriend can use it! (without messing with your settings in the process...)
If the 1 and 4 key don't do anything why not have them work as upside down volume
Mark
wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave
(USB->GPS)(USB->Bluetooth)(USB->You name it)
Posted by: Henno
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 07:07
If the 1 and 4 key don't do anything why not have them work as upside down volume Won't work: the remote will be pointing in the wrong direction
Henno
mk2 6 nr 6
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 08:26
Hey, I was the one who
originally requested that the 1 and 4 keys be left alone.
It was pointed out to me that if I had the remote control upside down, that it wouldn't work no matter what keys I pressed, since it was pointing the wrong way. Seems logical, except I tested it, and in my car it still sometimes works. Reflecting off of the interior windows, I suppose.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 08:37
Greetings!
Hugo mentioned a while back that the new remote is currently in design. I don't suppose that there are any
mock-ups or photos of the planned empeg branded remote that are available for viewing. More curious than
anything else, but you might get some useful feedback on the planned design changes / button layout.
Paul G.
R# 15189
(in queue for a 36GB Mk2)
Posted by: Henno
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 08:40
I was the one who originally requested that the 1 and 4 keys be left alone.
Yeah, most of us remember that, but . . .
in my car it still sometimes works
. . . . why would you need to leave them alone if they sometimes work?
Henno
mk2 6 nr 6
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 09:39
why would you need to leave them alone if they sometimes work?I'm not sure if you were joking with that last comment. If not,
re-read my original reasoning for not assigning default functions to the 1 and 4 keys.
And FWIW, I just tested it again on my way to work this morning, and the remote still activates the functions in my car almost all the time when it's facing the opposite direction.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: Henno
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 13:30
Henno
mk2 6 nr 6
Posted by: GeorgeLSJr
Re: Remote Overlay - 29/08/2000 22:59
Okay... this is another thread I remembered as I was driving tonight with my empeg for the first time (review forthcoming.. probably over the weekend). Anyhow, am I the only one who can tell by feel whether the remote is upside down (right side pointing up) or not? I actually went to far as to roll it around while I was driving at night and then pick it up and attempt to figure out which way was up. I haven't gotten it wrong yet. If you hold your thumb on the lower left corner, touching the left side and the bottom with the edges of your thumb, you can tell that the bottom of the remote is SLIGHTLY further from the bottom to the first button, as well as SLIGHTLY closer to the left side. Again, this is an very slight measurement difference, but it is noticeable... at least to me it is. Try it! You might figure it out, too!
George
Posted by: Roger
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 01:39
I've just got a piece of tape on the bottom of the remote, near the IR transmitter. Works for me.
The tape happens to say "Roger's Remote" on it, but that's just so that it doesn't go missing in the office if someone picks it up to do a demo.
Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
Posted by: altman
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 02:09
Stop calling me "someone". ;)
Hugo
Posted by: trevorp
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 06:01
Heh.
Actually, someone else mentioned that they feel for the battery cover... Was that you Tony?
I feel that a much more obvious feature is the hole in the front of the remote where the ir comes out. I generally try to tell by the battery cover, as it's more natural, but if I can't tell, then I feel for the ir hole.
-Trevor
-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 08:32
Actually, someone else mentioned that they feel for the battery cover... Was that you Tony?
I believe I mentioned that you could feel for the battery cover if you thought about it. I don't always do that.
I feel that a much more obvious feature is the hole in the front of the remote where the ir comes out.
I try to avoid doing that so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: trevorp
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 08:59
I try to avoid doing that so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter.
True. But since I give myself maybe 6 months before I lose my remote control, it's not as much of an issue for me.
I have a history of losing small but important things...
-Trevor
-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349
Posted by: Fogduck
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 09:36
It would be empeg-unique?
Nooooo!
Actually, I was appreciating the generic and ubiquitous nature of the particular model of remote you chose. If something happens to it (stuff happens in cars) -- any idiot stereo shop will probably have one of these for cheap.
I don't know how much time you've spent on designing a unique remote, but could you PLEASE reconsider, and just cook up your own overlay over this cheaply/easily-replaced model?
I can't imagine how much more improvement in interface/ergonomics would be achieved with a unique remote: I mean, other than the labels on the Kenwood, its not deficient in any way.
Sure the existing remote looks kludgey, but with its own overlay -- woo!
In the event of loss or damage, I'd rather just have to order a little plastic overlay from empeg and stick it on a garden-variety Kenwood remote.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
Posted by: Fogduck
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 09:40
so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter
Just how dirty do your hands get in the car, anyway? I might be concerned if, say, you were man-handling a jelly donut and then groping for the remote, but it would take a LOT of fingerprints to diminish the signal noticeably.
I seem to be able to occlude the remote in various interesting ways and the empeg still manages to see it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
Posted by: Fogduck
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 09:49
http://www.pronto.philips.com/
Pronto is fully programmable through a PC Hmm...thats starting to look a lot like my
Visor running
OmniRemote -- a fully programmable, customizable, learning IR utility for any IR-enabled Palm device.
Draw your own buttons and labels for the interface, then put it in learn mode and away you go.
No beanie or PC (that is, after you've loaded the software intially) required.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141,
green, 12GB
Posted by: Fogduck
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 09:56
Actually, as long as you are keeping the empeg backwards-compatible with the Kenwood remote (read this later in the thread, sorry), I don't need to worry as much.
However, to take it one step further, how about giving the empeg the ability to learn to respond to a different remote?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 09:59
Actually, I was appreciating the generic and ubiquitous nature of the particular model of remote you chose. If something happens to it (stuff happens in cars) -- any idiot stereo shop will probably have one of these for cheap.
Relax, my dyslexic friend. The old Kenwood remote still works just fine and it can still be purchased as a replacement. Just because Empeg is building their own custom remote doesn't mean that the Kenwood unit will become obsolete any time soon. The Empeg will support both sets of remote codes.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: alear
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 11:23
starting to look a lot like my Visor running OmniRemote
I thought about buying a palm IIIe for this exact reason. Beats the price of a pronto and has all the other palm advantages. The pronto may have other features the palm cannot provide but everything I need is there. I also happened to find the cracked omniRemote software on the internet. Though its not an expensive piece of software anyway.
Alex Lear
Posted by: scoco
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 18:16
The palm makes for a really crappy remote. The IR doesn't have the power. It works with some of my equipment pretty good, but other stuff (Mainly my dishplayer) it doesn't handle at all. If you don't want a pronto, get a Sony AV2100 or something similar, not a PDA. There are some people that make an atachment for the palm with a new IR transmitter with more power that will make it function better as a remote, and that would probably help, but out of the box, it sucks.
Posted by: bootsy
Re: Remote Overlay - 30/08/2000 18:30
Pronto is fully programmable through a PC
Oooh... That reminds me. I need to make an Empeg specific page for my Pronto!
And for the record, I've been told that the IR on the Palm is fairly weak compared to the Pronto. A lot of people with both have said they got the Pronto because the signal from the Palm wouldn't reliably cross their living room.
Posted by: eternalsun
Re: Remote Overlay - 31/08/2000 12:55
It's true. The pilot IR is weak as hell. I have to walk right up to something to get the damn thing to register -- but as for use in an enclosed vehicle, that'll certainly be within distance, unless you're driving a limo and sitting in the back with the pilot :-)
Calvin
Posted by: drakino
Re: Remote Overlay - 31/08/2000 22:25
The makers of OmniRemote sell an IR addon for the Palm that clips on to the serial port, and gives average remote ranges. Their program supports flipping the display if necessary since the serial is on the bottom of the unit.
Posted by: eternalsun
Re: Remote Overlay - 01/09/2000 10:13
Very kludgie, and very awkward. In any case, people should not be using remotes like this in a car because there is 1) no tactile feedback and 2) no way for you to identify buttons by feel. It would become necessary to look away from the road in order to operate the remote. So in addition to kludgie and awkward, it is dangerous. That goes for the pronto as well. The Omniremote software, if you ever used it, consists of buttons less than a centimeter in size, some closer to a few millimeters. I'd like to see somebody operate that remote blind in on the freeway without killing themselves ;).
Calvin
Posted by: borislav
Re: Remote Overlay - 24/09/2000 21:26
Yes, we're working on the custom remote; we should have some samples by the end of the month (we will post pictures :) ) but I'm not sure what the actual production lead time will be.Please post pictures
Borislav
Posted by: rob
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 05:08
They got it wrong - although we supplied a PDF they still managed to introduce typos and font errors. We're awaiting replacements.
Rob
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 05:10
Greetings!
Is that PDF file available for viewing anywhere?
Paul G.
Q# 15189
Status: Invited / Ordered - 24 Sept 2000 (36GB Green)
Posted by: peter
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 05:39
we are arranging the layout so that the 1 and 4 keys don't do anything in normal playback mode - so if you hold it the wrong way round and try to change volume, nothing annoying will happen (apart from the lack of volume changing!).
Due to severe demand for buttons, we might have to consider changing it so that buttons 1 and 4 don't do anything annoying, rather than their not doing anything at all...
Peter
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 11:07
Due to severe demand for buttons, we might have to consider changing it so that buttons 1 and 4 don't do anything annoying, rather than their not doing anything at all...Fine with me, good compromise. What did you guys eventually decide on the tactile assymetry thing?
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 11:29
Yeah that's key. Even just a little dimple on one side that you could search for in the dark. Right now it's trial and error.
-Tony
MkII 080000554
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 12:08
Yeah that's key. Even just a little dimple on one side that you could search for in the dark. Right now it's trial and error.Well, as I understand it, they won't be able to modify the shape of the remote's casing no matter what. And it's been argued that you can feel for the IR window or the battery hatch if you want. This is a good argument.
My opinion is that if there's going to be tactile asymmetry, it needs to be on the buttons themselves since that's the ergonomically correct way to do it. The best suggestion I heard was to have a "nipple" on the Enter button (what would correspond to the DNPP button on the current remote).
I don't know if Empeg would even be able to do that with their current manufacturer, though. I don't know how the keypads on these remotes are made, or whether that sort of thing is even possible.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: rob
Re: Remote Overlay - 25/09/2000 15:05
We don't get to change the physical characteristics, period. Sorry!
Rob
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Remote Overlay - 26/09/2000 13:34
Tony: The best suggestion I heard was to have a "nipple" on the Enter button
Rob: We don't get to change the physical characteristics, period.
It would be about 15 seconds work for the owner of the remote (I am not suggesting the manufacturer do this) to put a drop of fast-setting epoxy on the Enter button. Suspend the remote upside down by the edges to keep the epoxy drop from flattening on the button, but instead assume an irritating shape as it dried.
It would work for me and requires minimal intervention on the part of empeg.
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
Posted by: loren
Re: Remote Overlay - 26/09/2000 13:46
did it...works great! I put it on the DNPP button about 2 weeks ago and it's still there holding strong.
|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 26/09/2000 14:57
What kind of glue did you use, Loren? I'd like to try it.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: loren
Re: Remote Overlay - 26/09/2000 15:07
Tony, i'm not sure of the brand, but i believe it's an epoxy. I'll check when i get home and post it up for ya =]
|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
Posted by: loren
Re: Remote Overlay - 26/09/2000 20:49
K, I've attached a picture of the epoxy dot on the remote. Unimpressive eh? As you can see it is tiny as all hell, but believe me it works well for being able to orient the remote and so that i rarely have to look at it to use it.
I used two part 5 minute epoxy that you can get at any hardware store. Mine is just generic Ace Hardware brand that i had laying around the house. I wouldn't go buy a tube of it just for this application cause it's pricey from what i remember. Hasn't anyone just tried a dab of Elmer's White Glue-All or something? seems like it would be adequate. I just picked epoxy 'cause i know it will stick for a while. =]
|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Remote Overlay - 02/10/2000 11:39
I used two part 5 minute epoxy that you can get at any hardware store.Thanks for this information. I did it (had some two-part 5 minute epoxy in the garage already), and I've lived with it for several days now, and I really like it.
I did it differently than you did, though. I was afraid that having the bump directly on the button's center would eventually damage the surface of the button.. So I did four small bumps around the button instead. Works great.
___________
Tony Fabris
Posted by: loren
Re: Remote Overlay - 02/10/2000 13:48
How clever of ya. Hrm...how do you think it would damage the button? just curious. Nevertheless, it does work great eh?! No more fumbling for the right orientation! Actually, i might take a note from ya and put three or four drops around the * key in addition to the one drop on the DNPP. Those are the most often used reference keys for me, so that would help a ton, great idea!
|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Remote Overlay - 02/10/2000 15:29
Greetings!
Actually, I did something a bit low tech. I printed out a "quick reference" of the PIN numbers to various mixes, sized to fit over the English / Japanese label on the back. I then took some packing tape, attaching the note to the back of the remote. I rigged the tape to have a point toward the front, so I can very easily find it in the dark. In the light, it is a handy reference. When I want to change PINs, I just swap the label.
Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587
Posted by: loren
Re: Remote Overlay - 02/10/2000 16:05
Okay, being the exploratory little bastard that i am, I just peeled the afore mentioned English/French/Japanese Caution label off the back of the Kenwood remote so i could do exactly what Paul did and fit a reference sheet on the back. The underside of the label is metallic...is there any reason for this... i.e. did i just remove some sort of electronic shielding?
[geezer voice]Probably a dumb question, but i'm not to hip to all these new fangled eeeeelectronic doohickeys[/geezer voice]...
|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
Posted by: flashman
Re: Remote Overlay - 02/10/2000 22:35
How bout those pictures???
A PDF file???
I'm worse that a kid who just found where the christmas presents were hidden.
Throw us a bone.
12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue
Posted by: Bill Walker
Re: Remote Overlay - 03/10/2000 09:07
I just used an Intel Inside sticker stuck to the back at the bottom, tis easy...
-------------
MK II, (Blue but should be Amber) SN: 118
Posted by: EngelenH
Re: Remote Overlay - 03/10/2000 09:27
Reminds, need to order some extra 'Nerd Inside' stickers for my car...
Thanks.
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431