Serious competition!!!

Wow, that is pretty serious!

Questions, though:

- I wonder whether the 10 gigs will be upgradable?
- I assume that if you insert a CD, it'll rip it to the hard disk (otherwise what would be the point of putting a CD and a hard disk in the same box)?
- If so, does it let you control the bit rate/quality?
- And if so, what file format does it use for its ripping? (MP3, wma, proprietary?)

Very interesting looking little unit, though!


___________
Tony Fabris

Wow. It's pretty clear what empeg's advantages are over this one... but still... wow. Definitely time to get crankin' on MKIII.


|| loren.cox ||

Yeah, this is the first one that even comes close, IMHO. Nipping at the empeg's heels!

(Of course, it took 'em two years to get there.)

I forget, was there an MSRP in that article?

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

I forget, was there an MSRP in that article?

---

No mention of pricing at all in the article but it does look like a very nice piece of kit. I'm sure we'll find out more about it soon enough.

Marcus (beaker)
32 gig (various colours)

Indeed a cool item if orwhen it comes out. What I want to know is how did they cram tuner,HDD,CD player & amps in same unit?

#695 empeg-car Mk2/Green/Amber/Neon Red/Clear/Smoke-12Gig needs tuner,2.x, VR

"No buyers regret"

I like it! It looks like a unit that will sell well with average people. And it has backlit buttons

It mentions an auto eq feature. I wanted to point out that PaulWay on this board was considering building a DSP system which can be read about in the Projects section. I have also considered doing an auto eq specifically for the empeg which played MP3 tones, chirps, etc. through the empeg. The DSP would then send commands (serial or IR) back to change the empeg eq automatically.

I would definitely enjoy a brighter display. Is the OEL sunlight readable? One other empeg project that I am working on is a display interpreter. Takes the commands/data sent to the EL display controller and converts them to VGA or NTSC (TV). A much better way to go than my other TV output device which had serious drawbacks. Also, leaves lower half of screen for a cool spectrum analyzer.

I agree, Pioneers product is serious competition and I think empeg/Sonic Blue should keep one step ahead by blowing them away with features. (Voice Recog. is a good start)

Alex Lear

After reading more on the Organic EL display Pioneer claims it doesn't washout in sunlight, seeing is believing, I haven't seen many displays that don't. It also looks like a expensive item.
The auto-EQ should easily be a doable thing given the mic input.
Seems like Rio/Sonic Blue can only work on one project at a time for now.

#695- Mk2/Green/Amber/Neon Red/Clear/Smoke-12Gig hasTUNER awaits 2.x & VR

"No buyers regret"

Although it was "unveiled at IFA" it was actually shown at CES in January. We believe it falls short in terms of music organisation, and in being so strongly tied into SDMI.

Fitting all that stuff into a 1DIN box isn't so much the issue any more, but it IS an expensive undertaking (because of the cost of shock protected data capable CD mechs). I'll be interested to find out what the SRP will be.

Rob

As we're exhibiting at IFA (and at CES earlier this year) we've already had a good look at it; they've done a good job to cram it all in there! (both the pioneer and sony units have integral fans) I believe the launch is sometime in 2002, and the rumours about the price are in the $2000 range - though as I said, these are just rumours.

Sony were also showing an in-car jukebox at IFA, though theirs wasn't actually operating - the front panel was just a mock-up with a bulb behind it (come to mention it, neither was the pioneer; it was there behind a bit of perspex but the music library was empty as I found by reaching around and pressing buttons ;) ). The sony one uses a laptop cd-rom, which looked a bit flimsy for an in-car unit.

Both the Sony and Pioneer are SDMI compliant and have magicgate memory stick slots; I wonder what restrictions the SDMI stuff will impose...

Hugo

It's about time for Rio to consider MK3 :)

Maybe OEL, new facia with backlit buttons and more proffessional look. I't should be allso cheaper to manufacture in volume for more affordable price. I'ts possible to keep existing users happy with software updates, but possible future clients can easily go for Pioneer.

Does anyone know what the coyright protection is about? Just hearing the phrase "copyright protection" is sure turnoff for me:)



Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

Just hearing the phrase "copyright protection" is sure turnoff for me:)

Why? With copyright protection "consumers can enjoy music without having to worry about copyright issues." Heh. Don't you just love it when they do that?

Borislav

Why? With copyright protection "consumers can enjoy music without having to worry about copyright issues." Heh. Don't you just love it when they do that?

Yeah, sure:) The DVD players are allso quit worry free here:) You know some of them has some region specific thing. But in Estonia they sell DVD-s and players designed for different regions as Estonia is sort of between east and west. So it's only two options when buying a dvd, it will work on my player or not.

Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

I've had a pioneer DEG-9000R headunit for a year now, with the organic-EL display. It's GREAT. Sharp as a knife, and VERY well viewable, at night AND in direct sunlight! It's hands down the best display in a headunit I've ever seen. If only empeg would use 'em. Oh well, maybe in mk3 (BTW, does anybody know anything about a possible date of release ? This year? Next year? In two years?)

Here are some pics some guy took at CES early this year of the pioneer mp3 unit booth.

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4

We looked at OEL displays; problem is, at the moment only pioneer make anything useful in terms of size (everyone else is in pre-production stage). This is very unusual - even Sony don't make their own LCDs in their car audio products, despite having LCD manufacturing capability.

Pioneer will sell them to us, but they're not cheap and have pixel life problems (early displays had around a 50% failure rate in a year; even the current displays invert themselves periodically in order to equalise pixel life!). Kudos to pioneer for pushing ahead and selling technology which noone else can get ready for the market, though.

In a year or two OEL will be everywhere, when life improves and prices get a bit better. Pioneer obviously have a slight advantage when it comes to cost as they make the displays themselves...

Hugo

Hmm Estonia what kind of language do you speak there??

Finninsh, Russian og Estonian?? Do you understand Russian?

TommyE

We speak Estonian (its a little similar to Finnish and quite many people mostly in nothern Estonia can speak Finnish too). Russian was required second language in Estonian schools when Estonia was occupied by Soviet Union. So most of Estonians speak or at least can understand Russian.

Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

So Hugo, I gather from this that you've actually considered using them?
So it's still possible we'll see an OEL display in a future Empeg product?

I can't say I've had problems with pixel life on my headunit. I haven't noticed any dead pixels yet and it's (contrary to what I've said before - time flies) almost two years old. I did notice this inverted display syndrome you mention, but this is simply an option which is easily turned off. I have to admit, the first time I saw this I thought my display was broken. After actually reading the manual (ugh!) this option was turned off fast. I haven't had any problems with my unit since, AND I've already dropped it a few times. (yeah I know...I was blessed with two left hands...)

It's about time for Rio to consider ( . )
new facia with backlit buttons
Yeah. I would love to have the button hack applied to my Mk2, but can't solder that well :(

and more proffessional look
you must be joking!
IMHO the beauty of the MK2 shows in its looks: simple, elegant, functional
To me, that Pioneer is an example of an engineer designed products where it is believed that a good design has been achieved all airplane cockpit's controls have been cramped onto the face of a car radio! I bet that that Pioneer display is *multi* coloured too :( . Too many of these around already.

For me, the looks of the Mk2 fascia fits in beautifully with the concept of the player itself, the superb playlist management, extra's as visuals, and the sheer joy that must have gone in to designing the hardware.

I won't trust any 'car radio, CP/MP3 player, amplifier, CDDB database' for which they haven't worked out a simple user interface.



Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

you must be joking!
IMHO the beauty of the MK2 shows in its looks: simple, elegant, functional
To me, that Pioneer is an example of an engineer designed products where it is believed that a good design has been achieved all airplane cockpit's controls have been cramped onto the face of a car radio! I bet that that Pioneer display is *multi* coloured too :( . Too many of these around already.

I don't say that MK3 should look like Pioneer. Actually i would like it to have even more simple look. I like Sony BlackPanel design when the panel is turned black side out. And i would not want more buttons. And multicolor .. no way. I just think that current facia with grey buttons looks kind of cheap.

Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

And i would not want more buttons.

I don't know about the buttons... I like the current minimalistic design but on the other hand I would like more functions to be available (or more easily accessible) without the remote.

BTW, here is the other end of the spectrum (the Bose stereo in Audi TT).

Borislav

I just think that current facia with grey buttons looks kind of cheap

I have never seen an empeg player in real life, so I can't judge.

But this could also be considered a practical feature. Every potential thief (who doesn't know the empeg player) simply won't bother ever breaking into your car to steal it.

Have you read Sven's (aka smu) story about when he left his empeg player in the car secured with a notebook lock I believe. Someone broke into his car, took out another head unit, but left the empeg, even writing a note, asking why he would ever put something this cheap on a chain.

Georg

Yes, we've considered using OEL. The failure rates I quoted were from a dealer I was talking to about the products - ie, these are the display failures from his customers.

I'm not sure if it was pixel life or display driver life, as some failures involved large sections of the screen. They can't be *that* bad, otherwise pioneer would go out of business!

Hugo

Hi.

Here is the link to the story Schorschi is refering to:
http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=install&Number=28415&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&vc=1

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

Someone broke into his car, took out another head unit, but left the empeg, even writing a note, asking why he would ever put something this cheap on a chain.

That proves it looks cheap. I'm just saying this could be turnoff for wider range of potential customers. Of course real empeg fans consider it as a feature but when Rio wants sell more to the larger target group then then it's not.

Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

Hi.

I just feel that I should point out my opinion on the looks of an empeg (MkII that is). I really love the way my empeg looks while in dash, it simply integrates very well with my standard VW dash (you know, this dark grey, if not black plastic with that surface relief that should resemble leather).
Still, the empeg does not look quite as expensive as it is. This is a big plus for me, though it actually seems to be a minus for most people. For me though, I really wouldn't want the empeg at all if it had the looks of that pioneer unit.

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

You now I still have a MKI.
The main reason I still have one (appart of i don't really need the new features of MKII) is that i don't like the faceplate of the MKII. I simply love the simple and flourishless faceplate of my MKI.

Daniel
very proud MkI owner (10GB + 30GB amber) #00107

Edited by pache on 31/08/01 04:13 PM.

The main reason I still have one (appart of i don't really need the new features of MKII) is that i don't like the faceplate of the MKII. I simply love the simple and flourishless faceplate of my MKI.

Same here. Actually i would like more smoother one like sony black panel with simple black jog dial or modest buttons but MK1 is quite close, especially with blue screen. I don't like the wing design on MK2. The Pioneer look would'nt be that bad allso when it had black dials and buttons instead of metallic ones and decent one colour screen.

Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

I find this interesting. The reason I have my Rio Car now is because of Pioneer. Let me explain. I first heard about Empeg a few years ago when the MK1 was hot and the MK2 was in development. (I still rember the rendered pic of the new face design) I was on the waiting list to get one but when my number came up, I didn't have the funds. Fast forward to the present and after switching jobs 3 times, I'm making quite a bit more money. I went to purchase a new system consisting of one of Pioneers top Head Units, the Premier DEH P930. It lasted exactly 22 days before it malfunctions and ate my CD. When I went to exchange it, the store had just recieved there first Rio Car. I had to have it and I've been very happy since.

Yes, we've considered using OEL.

Is it still an option for a future product (when it gets cheaper), or did the idea got entirely wiped under the carpet?

About the "simple" look of the Empeg. I actually like that simplicity. I'm also not for a headunit which looks like a christmas tree. But I do think it would be a good idea to implement the OEL displays with the empeg player, if only for the higher resolution and the (even more) exclusive look it would get by doing so.

That proves it looks cheap.

It doesn't look cheap, in my opinion.

The only reason that some people get the "cheap" impression is because it doesn't look like other brands of gaudy aftermarket stereos. Those stereos deliberately try to complicate their displays to give the impression of expense.

What the empeg does do is match the interior of most cars better. While other aftermarket stereos look out-of-place on the dash, the empeg fits right in.

Here's my previous post on this subject.

___________
Tony Fabris

Alpine are also showing some (non-gaudy) monochrome OELs at IFA this year.

We never rule anything out; you just pick the best you can get given the constraints - for the empeg mk2 there were very few constraints :)

Hugo

I simply love the simple and flourishless faceplate of my MKI.

I know what you mean. Even now that I've accustomed to my Mk2, I still like the plain Mk1 looks, buthave come to prefer the wing design *and* the extra buttons. If it hadn't been for the supposedly better tuner, I might well have stuck with my Emma (Mk1). When getting an amp for my empeg, I had a look at *many* car stereo's. Man, the percentage ugly onces is unbelievable, but they probably sell better than the empeg

'Bad money driving out good money'

Cheers

Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

the other end of the spectrum (the Bose stereo in Audi TT).

still better than most other Bose products, I think . . .

Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

I love the looks of the MK2/RioCar. Well, I am an aerospace engineer, so the wing design certainly appeals to me

One of my friends is not a techy, he is into architecure. I never told him anything about the empeg, and first time he saw it, his words were:

"That looks really nice, it's so refined that it is elegant. I bet that thing is really hi-tech without trying to look that way."

Needless to say, he got even more impressed after I started the car. Pretty much everybody I know likes the looks of the Mk2/RioCar.

Rob, you should forward that one to the designer. He'd be pleased to hear that reaction.

___________
Tony Fabris

Actually that's a standard Audi Head Unit (Concert I think) - it's got nothing to do with BOSE.

If you order Bose on a new Audi, you get an amp and a bunch of new speakers - that's it.

The head unit is the same either way (I know - that concert unit is sitting on my shelf at home).

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Actually that's a standard Audi Head Unit (Concert I think) - it's got nothing to do with BOSE.

If you order Bose on a new Audi, you get an amp and a bunch of new speakers - that's it.

I see. My friend who owns a TT didn't want the Bose option but had very little choice - all the dealers in the area only had TTs with Bose in stock and you had to wait several months if you wanted one without it... If that's not extortion, I don't know what is.

Borislav

Similar thing happened with my Empeg, which wasn't even locked (they pulled it out of the sled, but just left it on the floor of the car). I'm sure it had a lot to do with it's ultra-simple, no-name-brand look. I think it's pretty funny. Burglars need to better educate themselves...

In reply to:

---

Burglars need to better educate themselves...

---

Uh .. Nuh uh !!!!

After having had 3 breakins in my cars over the last 3 years I pass. Good thing I have been holding off on my empeg install.

cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

Heh,

I wanted Bose, but couldn't get it - weird.

Audi sales people are quite canny and probably the second worst I've ever come across (second to BMW salespeople, who are the rudest on earth).

I've heard differing reports on sound quality from the Bose - I'd be interested to hear what you think....

As for the car - it's still awesome, even 2 years on. (Althought that may have a lot to do with the 270bhp upgrade and Porsche 911 brakes).

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I've heard differing reports on sound quality from the Bose - I'd be interested to hear what you think....

I've only listened to it for a few minutes. I find the bass very boomy, don't remember anything else in particular. My friend seems to like it, though, so I haven't told him that.

As for the car - it's still awesome, even 2 years on. (Althought that may have a lot to do with the 270bhp upgrade and Porsche 911 brakes).



Borislav

As for the car - it's still awesome, even 2 years on. (Althought that may have a lot to do with the 270bhp upgrade and Porsche 911 brakes).

You know, that's something I'll never understand. I don't know what car you have, but what's the point of having this much bhp in a country where you can't even closely get to the car's top speed on public roads?

It's kind of like getting a blow job, but never being allowed to come.

Sorry, for being so blunt, but I had to say it. ;-)

Georg
(from orgiastic Autobahn-Germany)

Well, two main reasons.

My 0-60 is about 1 second less. The car just feels better than the stock Audi - it pulls from 2,200 revs to around 5000 just beautifully. The car sounds better (new exhausts too). and finally it is a lot smoother with the extra power (when re-chipping you smooth the power delivery as well.

But mainly because I take it 12 times a year to track days and thrash the [censored] off of it.

It's fantastic. I wouldn't have anything else.

There is something great about doing 70mph round a 100degree corner with the tyres squealing the engine roaring and the empeg on 0db with some pumping dance music.

Adrenaline rush!

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

You think that's mad - check this out.

(check the 'golf' links)

Mad, mad, mad.

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

BMW Salespeople rude ? Whoah, never had that problem. Hell they even let me testdrive all the new cars in the showroom whenever I come there for maintenance. And the car doesn't even come from their dealership (it's a company lease car) ..
Hell the technicians are even better, they have been very forthcomming on answering all sorts of technical questions I had (mostly about chip-tuning my 320d and installing a different audio unit. You can guess which audio unit I was thinking of right).

All in all the service BMW dealerships give here is quite simply AMAZING. They even call me up 2 weeks after a repair or maintenance to make sure everything was done according to my wishes and if not will gladly set things right for free (within reason).

I for one feel perfectly at easy and am quite content with my Bimmer and it's dealers.

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

Okay you asked for it.

Meeting number one (to buy a Z3).

Call in to dealership in person. Get loads of attitude from sales people - who thikn that 'cos I'm not wearing a suit I've got no money. Manage to leave after an hour with some tatty brochures and a promise of a test drive 'when they get a car'.

Despite calling every week for a month, this mystery car never appears, but a friend of mine drives it (without me knowing until later) during this period.

Buy Audi.

Meeting number two (to buy a M3)

Call dealership first. Manage to get flannel about how there are no brochures for me to have, sorry. Ask If I can test drive it - 'Yes sir, in three years time'. Tell sales person that I'll go any buy from another dealer - 'You can't sir - all BMW dealers will only allow you to buy a car if you are in their postcode area'. This is crap, and he and I know it. I talk to a different dealer who allows me a test drive and is happy to take the order if I want.

So far BMW Coopers, Reading have blown £60K's worth of car buying from me.

W*****ers.

I guess it shows that it's really down to the dealer.

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

That is rude, really rude...

Oh well, i'll go pat my dealer now ... On second thought, i'll go pat his daughter. Might get an M3 out of it

Cheers,
Hans

Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

Cool. It's about time we got some competition.

I'm confident Empeg's got the better user interface (and is better for tinkering), but this might get the boys at SonicBlue thinking harder about OEM deals, volume manufacturing and perhaps even a more professional looking unit (industrial design).

Would be curious to see how much Pioneer will charge for this and what their gross margins are.

I agree that the the vast majority of car players are extremely gaudy. What I would dig is an Empeg that matched my car 100% - and looked like it was a standard Audi component.

But the Empeg does look kinda cheap.

I do think it looks kinda cheap but I prefer this look to that of newer headunits like panasonic's that stick out about 4 inches and have guady flashy displays (I like plain)

the empeg comes a lot closer to matching my VW than the clarion I have in the lower slot. at least it mounts flush

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

I agree that the the vast majority of car players are extremely gaudy

Seems like everyone has different opinions about this. It would be nice if the main unit design was the same but the faceplate could be changed drastically (to look like a pioneer, empeg or even the "stealth blackpanel" design that some people like). Maybe even a faceplate that has the buttons and knob built onto it with the faceplates having a common plug to the main unit.

Sort of like player "skins"

Alex Lear

most people call me nuts when I show them the empeg and tell them what ive paid for. or they say nothing and turn around and grin or shake head. so most people think it look scheap and not worth the price. but most people wouldnt have the money to buy one, and what people cant afford (?)they normally speak bad about. i think it looks quit good in the car although more buttons and more backlight would make it look moore attractive.

I would still prefer a 'Pioneer' or similar designed 'non-prototype-look' (just what I think it looks like) unit better and will probably go away from empeg since I don't do much more with it than listening to music, I also do not have much of a need for a great management software. Best would be just to have the unti to be mountable as a USB HDD (like the Archos) so I can just stick files in directories and play them. But since the easiest for some reason is not what developers think people like, I have to live with something like emplode which I personally never liked at all.

However, things will probably become more complicated with things like the Pioneer, don't know. They will for sure become cheaper.

BTW, I have read that it will N O T be possible to stick a CD in the Pioneer and copy it to the HDD. I have heared that music can only be transferred to the HDD using the stick. Anyone else heared that ??

If this is true, the device will be uninteresting.

BTW, I have read that it will N O T be possible to stick a CD in the Pioneer and copy it to the HDD. I have heared that music can only be transferred to the HDD using the stick. Anyone else heared that ??

This is not true. Check out (and read) the first and third pic I've posted about this unit ealier in this thread.

It would be nice if the main unit design was the same but the faceplate could be changed drastically (to look like a pioneer, empeg or even the "stealth blackpanel" design that some people like). Maybe even a faceplate that has the buttons and knob built onto it with the faceplates having a common plug to the main unit.

That's a very good idea. Then there could be even a different number of buttons on different faceplates and the user can choose which plate he/she wants. And the button functions could be user configurable thru emplode or serial connection.



Veiko
[email protected]

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

The prices I've heard are around $2000 for the 10G model, so it may well not turn out to be cheaper than an empeg (but obviously, as the margins are standard car audio margins, you should be able to get it for quite a bit less if you shop around).

If you transfer music using the stick, it'll probably have SDMI implications, as the stick is a MagicGate enabled one. Files from the CD are probably not as protected.

Hugo

Phat may be right to some extent. How fast will the cd rom unit in the player be? How long will the unit take to encode it? What encoder will be used to encode it and at what bitrate? I see ATRAC3 on some of the pics, maybe it will only use that. Will you be able to listen to music off the HD while this is going on? How much storage does a memory stick have? 128MB? If so, thats a lot of trips back and forth to the computer to load the player up with music.

Sean

If you go back and read through the info on the player again you will see that you can listen to a CD at the same time as it is being "saved to the HDD", which kinda indicates that they are encoding at least in real-time, and probably faster.

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

can listen to a CD at the same time as it is being "saved to the HDD", which kinda indicates that they are encoding at least in real-time, and probably faster.

More likely, the player has some sort of a scratch partition where it saves the raw WAV data from the CD. When you first insert the disc, it rips the WAV data to this partition and begins streaming raw audio from there.

Then, in the background, at its leisure, it encodes the WAVs into the compressed format and deletes the bigger files one by one.

At least, if I were designing such a system, that's the way I'd do it...

___________
Tony Fabris

Hmm, if you extract all the *.wavs at once then you are going to need a reasonable sized scratch partition! Chances are they are using an encoder/decoder chip anyway - then they don't need much of a processor in the thing. I would expect the chip to encode in real-time. Hugo might have a better idea :-)

MusicMatch and iTunes (Apples player/jukebox/encoder/disk burner) will also encode and play at the same time. Of course the encoding is finished first, but it's not uncommon.

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

I think it's interesting that it isn't removeable and that the only apparent way to update it is with the memory stick.

How else do you get songs in other than magicgate or cd?

Is the wording specific that it can _actually_rip_songs_? We're all assuming that it can but the blurb doesn't say that anywhere. It might be able to copy mp3s from your own mp3 CD. I think it can only copy files. So it would be able to copy your cd to wav.
I've never known car audio manufacturers to give their computer type products any great processing power.

Murray 06000047
Just increasing my post count

I'm pretty sure it will rip and compress, though I think it does this to ATRAC format (would figure, as ATRAC compress/decompress chips are more common than MP3 compression chips). If you needed to load it with mp3 CDs that would rather limit the market to people who have PCs...

Hugo

I don't know what car you have, but what's the point of having this much bhp in a country where you can't even closely get to the car's top speed on public roads?

Because there is SO much more to performance than what number your speedometer needle can point to.

Acceleration, braking, handling, cornering ability... the ability to effortlessly pass another car on a two lane road, not by mashing down on the gas pedal but by just thinking about pressing the tiniest bit more with your right foot... the ability to drive on Highway One in California, as fast as you have the courage to drive and still not be over the speed limit...

I have (in addition to my empeg-equipped station wagon) a Porsche 930 Turbo. I have enjoyed the performance of this car immensely, but rarely have I felt the need to exceed the posted speed limits. Well, all right... a few times, maybe. Maybe more than a few. OK, damn it, the car goes like a sonofabitch and it's hard to keep my foot out of the gas. Are you satisfied?

But you don't have to travel at blinding speeds to enjoy performance. As any true car buff can tell you, it is a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. I'd much rather drive a Miata up Highway One than drive a Ferrari or Lamborghini on the Autobahn.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

When I was over for the US meet, n6mod lent me his M Coupe (with an empty empeg sled, which fitted my empeg I'd bought with me perfectly :) ) and I drove down a bit of Highway 1 from the top. Nice road, pity I was too afraid of (a) changing gear with my right hand and (b) doing anything nasty to Zandr's car to really have fun :)

Still, it burbles along very nicely and the weather was almost sunny!

As you say though, driving a slow car fast is great fun; thrashing a 1.0 nissan micra through london or an Citroen AX GT down the A507... :)

Hugo

Official response from Pioneer (Europe):

Thank you for your interest in our Hard Disc Drive CD Tuner, the DEH-P900HDD. This product will only be commercially available from next spring, and we have not yet decided it's recommended price, so that I'm afraid we cannot provide more details than are available on our press release.

Thank you again for your interest!

Well, that leaves enough time for SB to develop a MK3!!!

Edwin de Vaan
mk2 rev.7 # 080000263 (queue 1232) 6+20Gb blue/red