Is there a Europe Owners meet this year?

Sorry if there's another recent thread on this...It's hard to keep up nowadays.

Is there going to be an owners meet in Europe this year? Last I read, Rob S wasn't putting it together. If someone is planning on hosting/organizing an event, where and when? I'd love to come, but I'd need to book the flight early.

Thanks,
Jason Dearing

Could we take a straw poll amongst the UK owners as to wether they want to meet up, hopefully when the weather is a little more inviting.



Where would be the best place to meet up? Having never been to a previous meet, what do you guys get up to?

Sorry, probably phrased the question wrong. Is there anyone who wants to attend a meet in the UK. Didn't mean to leave out all the owners in Europe and the rest of the world. I can assure you I'm not in the least bit xenophobic!

no, but I'd attend one in the southern or eastern US, assuming it doesn't conflict with any really important other events.

john

I'm gonna planning an Italian meeting, as soon as I'll get my empeg...

Obviously, everyone's invited!

What about a meet at an IASCA Event ?

That way we can all say hello, but there will be plenty of ICE related stuff to see and do aswell. Doncaster was good. I went in 2000.

I'm planning a meet in Antartica, anyone in the area wanna come?

I'd be into a meet in Europe. Pretty much anywhere in Europe as long as someone else was able to pay for my trip. I can probably handle paying for accomodations. But if that can be arranged by someone else as well, all the better.

Of course, that's if it doesn't conflict with that meet in Antarctica. Or was that Attica?

Bruno

There's no option for "maybe, but it depends where and when, and whether I'm doing something else at the time."

That's what I'd tick if there was one.

As for a venue, how about the big car-park opposite the Wrestlers in Cambridge? Then we'd be sure to get a few of the Empeg boys.

We'll come to Rob Schofields meet in Amersfoort - he even had some dates set.

Rob - is this confirmed yet?

Rob

Right this Italian meeting will take place anyway, so if ppl agrees of course it would be great to expand it to an Eu meeting. Also, I am considering to come to Amersfoort, even though time is not on my side recently.

Hey, we can do that, too. I don't mind organizing a hotel, meeting place, and a few activities, if y'all don't mind driving to Jacksonville, FL...
It just can't be the same date as the Europe meet.
Jason

Erm, did the dates for the dutch meet get posted ??

\\Kaare

If so, I haven't seen them. That's why I started the thread...

Yup, it's on - the venue is booked and I am getting it all together. Announcements will be sometime soon, but don't hold your breath yet until I have got my job situation sorted out.

It will be a lot of fun, and - co-incidentally - it will be on my birthday, so come to the party!

And here's a serious invitiation to all owners worldwide, but especially those of you in the US - you are all welcome, and you should have a good time. Make the effort - I am trying to persuade one of our favourite contributors to travel from the far side of the planet just to be at this gig: if he can do it - you can too!!!

I am trying to persuade one of our favourite contributors to travel from the far side of the planet just to be at this gig: if he can do it - you can too!!!

I still don't know how he's going to manage to drive that SHO Wagon across the bering straits, but OK...

Nice one! Do you want to try applying a little pressure from your side too?

Don't forget, it would be nice to see you as well, Tony - is there any way at all you could book a 5-day return trip?It's cheaper if you book early....

I would only be able to do it if it were part of a family vacation thing, and I'd have to look at the dates first... There's also the issue that I hate to fly (even before 9/11 I hated to fly)...

Ok, I'll bring my car this time, just so I've got a shot at the prizes!

Paul.

If you agree to invert parts, like I said to you time ago I will handle for your accomodation here in Italy
Just find someone that can handle your trip... and you will be the 'special guest' at our Italian meeting!

Can I have some suggestions for a nice holiday based around this?? I have enough air miles to possibly get me and the missus over there from this side of the pond (Canada).

Thanks!

Oops... Just noticed that an announcement would be posted later regarding the dates.

Sooooooooooo, when is your birthday?? I didn't find it in your profile.

As luck would have it, I already booked a ticket (to Paris arriving 31 May and departing 18 June) for the annual International Crappy Fishing Convention and for a little driving around--explore cheap hotels--eat fatty foods type action. Amersfoort would just be a hop and a skip, wouldn't it? (Can't say I'd bring my Empeg, as Avis isn't known to provide AUX inputs!)

So, when's your birthday?

My emplode is checking my disk integrity... I chould probably hop a plane to Paris, have a few glasses of wine, hop a plane back and still have time to catch a movie before this thing finishes. Uuuugh.

Does anyone have a suggestion on what one of the better ways (sites) is to check airfare prices between European locations?

Bruno

My emplode is checking my disk integrity... I chould probably hop a plane to Paris, have a few glasses of wine, hop a plane back and still have time to catch a movie before this thing finishes. Uuuugh.

No kidding! I this the downside or having 60GB unit now? (Oh, poor me!!)

Does anyone have a suggestion on what one of the better ways (sites) is to check airfare prices between European locations?

The engine behind most of the carrier specific res sites is the same -- ITN. I still type in www.itn.com even though it is now owned by Amex and branded as Amex. Choose the "flights" option immediately. the quickie booking option doesn't provide enough detail. I always use this to eyeball flights before going to our corporate travel site (which also use the same ITN engine) to finalize bookings (because, among other reasons, you can use ITN anonymously so there's no chance of getting stuck with an accidental booking if you hit the wrong button!)

ITN doesn't cover everything. You may get lower last-minute pricing from a consolidator site (maybe somebody else can recommend some of those like "Last-Minute Travel" or whatever). Also, it's worth playing around with ITN -- try odd routes and times -- as sometimes a fare will pop up that is lower than what initially gets spat out by the "AI".

Some of the carriers are trying to avoid dumping seats to discounters by doing it themselves. I'm a United frequent flyer and they send me e-mails with "E-fare" offers -- typically last-minute, non-upgradable seats with serious date/route constraints. Below I've attached a sample from January 9th for "Atlantic" destinations (lots of empty seats from Newark, looks like!).

I'm pretty sure you need to have a United (or Air Canada...) FF number to get those notices, but that's easy to do. Not sure how many carriers are doing it, as I've been 90% on UA for the past 5 years. Even with the notices, you still have to jump through the hoops to figure out which few dates and routes qualify and they are typically not any help unless you are ready to fly the following week.

Hope that helps,

[EDIT: Ah, you said "between" European locations. If that is truly the case, I think that there are certainly low-cost carriers that won't show up in ITN (the way Southwest is not listed on ITN for intra-US travel). I'm thinking of outfits like Ryan Air. You probably would want to check Ryan Air and maybe some others directly. I leave it to Europeans to steer you straight! I'll leave the rest of the post alone, lest it help any other folks trying to get to Amersfoort!]


Atlantic destinations:

Atlanta (ATL) Frankfurt, Germany (FRA) $259.00
Boston (BOS) London, England (LHR) $195.00
Chicago (ORD) Brussels, Belgium (BRU) $298.00
Chicago (ORD) Dusseldorf, Germany (DUS) $290.00
Chicago (ORD) Frankfurt, Germany (FRA) $290.00
Chicago (ORD) London, England (LHR) $245.00
Chicago (ORD) Paris, France (CDG) $298.00
Denver (DEN) Munich, Germany (MUC) $310.00
Los Angeles (LAX) Amsterdam, Holland (AMS) $338.00
Los Angeles (LAX) Frankfurt, Germany (FRA) $345.00

Los Angeles (LAX) London, England (LHR) $305.00
Los Angeles (LAX) Paris, France (CDG) $338.00
Miami (MIA) Paris, France (CDG) $318.00
New York City (JFK) London, England (LHR) $175.00
Newark (EWR) London, England (LHR) $175.00
San Francisco (SFO) Dusseldorf, Germany (DUS) $345.00

There's also the issue that I hate to fly

Why, that's precisely why Bob created Bourbon!

Were those round trip or one way prices? If it's round trip, I might even think about heading over there this year...

Were those round trip or one way prices? If it's round trip, I might even think about heading over there this year...

Those *are* round-trip, and yes some of them are pretty amazing. However, those were just fares they e-mailed Jan 9th probably for travel between Jan 13th and 20th or something -- and only if you'll accept separate middle seats and are willing to change planes in Fargo, stuff like that. Not any use if you actually want to plan in advance, and very volatile, but a possible great deal for discretionary travel when you're sitting on the fence. If they are busier come May/June, you probably won't see last-minute "E-fares" fares like that, but you never know.

For grins I just plugged in my May 30-June18 dates for a ticket to Amsterdam and lowest fares came back at ~$1,000 from Seattle and ~$700 from Newark. It seems like it's always a crap shoot -- whether to wait in hopes of a lower fare (essentially hoping that the airlines are underbooked and get desperate)

(Can't say I'd bring my Empeg, as Avis isn't known to provide AUX inputs!)

No... but a cassette adapter, a cigarette lighter adapter, and a rubber pad to put the empeg onto on the dashboard will work very well -- I drove from Connecticut to Alaska that way.

tanstaafl.

but a cassette adapter, a cigarette lighter adapter,...

I actually have 2 of the cassette adapters and have used them on driving vacations (with a Discman). They always seemed a little trebley, but did the job. One thing I've seen is that some of these rentals are coming through with CD players - the Seat Toledo I had last year had a CD, making cassette adapters a no-go. Suppose I could cut into the harness somehow (and bring a small amp!!) Plus, there's that whole vigilance thing -- protecting my Empeg while traveling in strange lands!

A side note for you, most classical Doug. I have to say how liberating it is to have a 60GB unit. I've been ripping (and listening to for the first time in a while) stuff that I never conceived of moving onto the Empeg. I was listening to some Sibelius today off the Empeg (192 VBR) plugged into my home system, and it sounded fantastic. Time to rip more!

Rob, when is your birthday??

Well, if it helps - the empeg owner's meet it that last wekeend of your trip, on the 14/15/16th of June. Wanna come along then?

For inter-European, Ryan air and Easyjet are about the most competitive.

EasyJet are on www.easyjet.co.uk

In the UK I think somewhere like Santa Pod might be a good idea as we could have a little fun dB dragging and the usual kind too
But then again, whatever floats your boat...

on the 14/15/16th of June

Lucky me! That is the weekend of Le Mans, and I was going to try to go to that (first time), but I bet I could figure out how to do both if I play my cards right.

Thanks!

Rob, can you give me a good reason why the Netherlands would be a good vacation destination for me and my family this year? I'm thinking about how my vacation time is going to pan out this year, and I'm starting to consider it.

I've been to the Netherlands Tony. I had an awesome time. Most people spoke various languages and many on the street are more than helpful. I particularly liked taking trains to random locations and just seeing what was there. Many times I was not dissapointed. One time I got out and found a waterfall practically in the middle of nowhere, and horses even. I don't recall the food as being particularly standing out but I do recall eating a lot of sausages.

Calvin

Well, I can see horses right here in my home town...

Anything else?

Anything else?

I'm no expert, but to keep the thread alive while we await Rob, I can say that....

Tourists report many fewer problems with nosebleeds than in, say, Switzerland. Better gas mileage while driving, too, and easy for bicycling. I haven't been during the summer, but on my list of To-Dos are the many beaches (though I have heard that California has one or two of those...)

Not too many decades ago in a little village in the south some regular patrons in a pub were observed to buy a round of beers for some weary travelers just *because* they were Americans. Go figure. Not sure how often that happens anymore.

Amsterdam, some of the more sensational aspects (coffee houses and red light district) aside is a fascinating city. Quite unique, a great, easy tram system, and easy to walk about.

Oh, and stealing a phrase: "Schipol Airport! No big mountains on the approach!"

How long are you thinking about going for? Distances are small. Lots of things to see.

can you give me a good reason why the Netherlands would be a good vacation destination for me and my family this year?

I can think of several very good reasons, but maybe they're not quite what you need to convince your family.

Rob

I don't recall the food as being particularly standing out but I do recall eating a lot of sausages

The Dutch national dish is chips (fries) and mayonaise

There are some fantastic restaurants if you know where to look, though.

Rob

If you go to Holland you are within easy driving distance of France, Belgium, Germany and England. Don't let that put you off, though.

Rob

Mmm, I remember some very good Indonesian food in Amsterdam (I don't know where to look, I just struck lucky!).

If you go to Holland you are within easy driving distance of France, Belgium, Germany and England.

Oh, now that could be the clincher. Jenny is German and might be interested in viziting ze fazzerland...

Is it fairly hassle-free to drive between countries in Europe? Do you have to go through customs or anything, or is there just a checkpoint on the highway and you hand them your passport?

Is it fairly hassle-free to drive between countries in Europe? Do you have to go through customs or anything, or is there just a checkpoint on the highway and you hand them your passport?

Not even that .. and now you only need one currency too !

Is it fairly hassle-free to drive between countries in Europe? Do you have to go through customs or anything, or is there just a checkpoint on the highway and you hand them your passport?

No, since +/- 10 years all the borders were lifted. Bye-bye customs. (not a good evolution IMHO)
So as long as you stay in the western European countries (with exception of Switserland, a few scandinavian countries and England) you won't ever be stopped at the border.
In some countries (like France), you'll have to pay for driving on the highway. In most countries it's free though. Oh, and keep in mind that fuel is A LOT more expensive over here!

Also, LTJBukem is correct. Since jan 1st of this year (almost) all EC countries have the same currency. We're all still getting used to it.

Oh, and Rob, french fries are not the Dutch's national dish! Croquets are! French fries are a Belgian speciality dammit !

I wish I could be there at this meeting, but the middle may or june would be very bad for me as this is the middle of my final exams. I sure hope there will be a meeting in july or something in the future!

I do live in France, and yes it is a Scandal to have to pay to drive on Highways.

Th'at's why when we tlak about we dont use the Word FREEWAY because for us it is not free at ALL.

Some old highways are free but almost all highways are not free and price depends of the recentness of it.

For the French fries , you can find many Fries sellers along the road and on beaches in the North of France like Le TOUQUET ....

But yes it is a Belgian speciality, but Parmentier a French Explorer brought to Europe the Potatoe ....

Th'at's why when we tlak about we dont use the Word FREEWAY because for us it is not free at ALL.


ROFL! Good one! Maybe you should start calling tehm PAYways! (Mmmm...that has a nice ring to it!)

But yes it is a Belgian speciality, but Parmentier a French Explorer brought to Europe the Potatoe ....

Ah, so you guys supplied the raw materials and we perfected the process. Sounds....Japanese! Damn!
Oh well, we'll allways have our beers!

Oh, and Rob, french fries are not the Dutch's national dish! Croquets are

OK but you can't deny the mayonaise thing

Rob

True! But we use at least equal amounts on our fries!

Croquets are!

aha ... that explains the McCroquet at Mcdonalds a couple of years ago when I was working there.

I love Holland and would seriously consider going to live there .. if they would have me !

Another good thing is lots of people ride bikes there because its so flat, so all the women are fit !!

Oh, now that could be the clincher.

I knew it. This thread should be mirrored under the "Spousal Approval" thread!

Yes, driving is easy, albeit high gas prices, and driving makes it easier to explore small towns (which to me is more than half the fun). A lot of the rental cars are diesel/gazole, reducing the bite a bit. Depending on your inclination, you might think about some train travel, too. RailEurope offers some multi-day "select" passes that let you pick any group of three countries (under their scheme, BeNeLux counts as one country), so for example you could hit Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France and Germany on a single pass. That can also help if airfares are hugely cheaper into one city (say take the plane to Paris or Frankfurt, then take Thalys/TGV or ICE train to Netherlands) and you maybe don't want to drive such a long haul.

I wish you good luck in your mission! I've been there!

1) Great country

2) Great People

3) Great Beer

4) Lots of empeg owners coming to the meet, people you know only on this BBS

5) Great beer

6) Hot summer weather

7) Great beer

8) Beautiful friendly girls (Damn, no - you're married )

9) Great beer - did I mention that yet?

10) Short distances to Berlin, Copenhagen, Brussels, Paris (all just a couple of hours by car)

11) You could visit London and travel on the Eurotunnel trains under the English channel (techo-dweeb's delight, believe me)

12) I'll be here

13) Holland has hundreds of really well-organised family oriented attractions, such as really beautiful open air swimming lakes, pools, attraction parks (not like Disney) and some of the most amazing indoor and outdoor museums in Europe (there's one museum with nearly a thousand examples of ships-in-bottles, and they show you how to make them).

14) Fast, clean, well organised public transport that's not too expensive and has all sorts of excursions and special tickets to the above mentioned parks.

15) 330 kph trains to Paris, Brussels, Bonn, and Berlin, and a special one that runs to EuroDisney.

16) A culture that is long lived and stable, oriented around the family, with much history around the place to see.

17) Festivals (Jazz, food, beer) all summer long are on just about every weekend all over the country

18) No snowboarding due to lack of hills above 1m.

19) The longest sea wall in the world, enclosing the largest inland sea in Europe (the Ijsselmeer, formerly the Zuider Zee)

20) Lots of clogs, hand made for you as you wait

21) A minature city in Den Haag covering almost 1 square kilometer with all the most famous landmarks of the Netherlands on show, including working trains, helicopters, all sorts.....

22) Lots of really good beer.

23) Did I mention the beautiful girls?

24) Amazing night life that "never closes"

25) Pancakes! Like you've never seen before, and your kids will never forget...

26) Short travel distances everywhere

27) Lots of cows - you'll never want for yoghurt, for example....

28) Windmills! Real ones! That actually work! That you can go inside and watch! (seven of them in a row at Kinderdijk)

29) The birthplace of the Compact Disk (Eindhoven)

30) The birthplace of European Unity (Maastricht - wonderful old walled town)

31) One currency (at last)

32) A good exchange rate against the dollar

33) Amazingly cheap return flights from the US if you book now....

34) The best owner's meet yet, with a Jazz band, treasure hunt in cars, Master classes in all things empeg, an evening barbecue, special competitions, special prizes, special people!

You'll love it, Tony - and I am sure that if everyone here knew you were coming, you would get an especially warm welcome from your friends on this board.

Come on, break open that piggy bank!

> Rob, can you give me a good reason why the Netherlands would be a good vacation destination for me and my family this year?

Well, there are two excellent museums, including the Van Gogh museum, a pretty decent restaurant selection, a quaint countryside, nice canals with funny little slanted houses, and probably the biggest percentage of English speaking natives anywhere on the continenent.

I really did like Amsterdam, though not really for any of those reasons.

Th'at's why when we tlak about we dont use the Word FREEWAY because for us it is not free at ALL.

ROFL! Good one! Maybe you should start calling tehm PAYways! (Mmmm...that has a nice ring to it!)

in the states, we have the same situation. freeways are indeed free to use. if you must pay to use the road, we tend to call them tollways in the midwest (chicago), or turnpikes out east.

here in chicago, the tolls were established to pay off the construction bonds over a 30-year timeframe. funny, though, after the 30-year period expired, rather than remove the tolls, they changed the law which granted limited authority to collect tolls. the tolls are now much higher, and to be collected indefinitely.

our state toll road authority is one of the most corrupt, patronage-driven organizations in the state. and that's saying something.

--dan.

33) Amazingly cheap return flights from the US if you book now....

indeed. i just got an offer from KLM for a return flight from chicago to amsterdam for $200, on a space-available basis. i may have to reconsider my summer vacation plans now.

--dan.

Maybe you should start calling tehm PAYways!

"Péage" is pretty close!

At least they're pretty nice. It sounded like a bigger controvery lately is whether to institute a uniform speed limit on them, wasn't it?

Péage" is pretty close!

Actually I believe Péage is the name of the tollbooth at which you'll have to pay when you want to use the tollway.

Actually I believe Péage is the name of the tollbooth

You'd know better than me! I came to think (wrongly?) they were synonymous. The (blue) toll road signs sometimes said "Péage" in italics, I thought, even if you aren't by the entrance (or at a point where you commit to the tollroad), and I thought I remembered getting directions from folks where they referred to it like "par la Péage" -- maybe shorthand/slang? (for dumb foreigners!) French road signs don't otherwise seem like they're big on brevity! -- "Vous n'avez pas la priorité!" versus. "Yield!"

My favorite? "Pensez aux enfants!" -- "Think of the Children!" Quite touching.

I also recall purchasing cheese wheels. This was all back when I had no money whatsoever, wandered around without benefit of hotels, and ate mostly whatever I could afford from pocket change. Prior to arriving, I was in London, wandering around the streets and found a street cart of some kind, and ate the fish and chips and it was a major grease pit in a handbasket. I tried to make it a point to try different meals everywhere, without knowing what was considered to be the national food. :-D But next time I will look out for and eat the chips and mayo .

Calvin

Put it this way, I usually go over the France/Belgium border at about 100mph... there's just a sign saying "Welcome to France" on the side of the motorway. Very underwhelming.

Hugo

Suis je le seul Français sur ce BBS ?

You're right. It's shorthand. AFAIK the term péage is mostly used for the tollbooths itself or the way to the tollbooths.

Also, it's true, the french have a way of "describing" what they mean, rather than having an exact term for it. Which doesn't simplify road-sign reading I'm afraid.

Put it this way, I usually go over the France/Belgium border at about 100mph... there's just a sign saying "Welcome to France" on the side of the motorway. Very underwhelming.

Bah...if it would read "Welcome to France, the land of the Eiffel tower, champagne, wine, brie, baguettes, lavender and tollways. Enjoy your stay in our beautiful country! " it would, apart from being a HUGE sign, be very difficult to read at the speed you're passing it!

BTW, a small but maybe useful fact : the french police's radar's are triggered from 150 km/h and up.

Suis je le seul Français sur ce BBS ?

Vous êtes le seul Français je me souviens de.

Quelqu'un? Quelqu'un?

Désolé! Je ne puis pas penser à personne aussi! Je pense qu'il est vraiment unique!

Which doesn't simplify road-sign reading I'm afraid.

Lest we deter Tony or anyone else from running out and buying those plane tickets, I would say that I find driving around Europe pretty easy for a furriner with near-zero command of any language other than English (and even that's a stretch). For one, there's all of the mostly standardized symbolic and even Anglicized signage (Stop signs that say "Stop", even). Also, I find that the way roudabouts get used make it easy to get where you're going in places like France -- "Centre Ville" or "Autres Directiones", take your pick! If I can keep focused on the "Do Not Enter" and "One Way" stuff, the rest is easy.

For the French fries , you can find many Fries sellers along the road and on beaches in the North of France like Le TOUQUET ....

Ooooh, Le Touquet... I had a fantastic seafood platter there recently in a quayside fish restaurant called Aux Pêcheurs d'Etaples (which I think has sister restaurants in Boulogne and, for some reason, Lille).

Peter

I'm afraid I can't say what's good about Holland 'cos every time I visit Amsterdam I seem to come back not remembering anything that I've been doing all weekend... I think Coffee was involved somehow... Oh and shops!

10) Short distances to Berlin, Copenhagen, Brussels, Paris (all just a couple of hours by car)

Berlin in a couple of hours! What have you got under the bonnet of the mini??

From looking at the geography of things, it looks like we could be able to see England, the Netherlands, Germany, and perhaps even Austria if we spent a week driving around. Does this sound realistic?

Well you could SEE that many countries, but in just a week you're not going to find out much about any of them!

I suppose you only really need to visit the Wrestlers for the England part though.

Rob

Hmm, maybe two weeks, then.

Tony,

don't forget Switzerland!

Hmm, maybe two weeks, then.

Some randon questions/thoughts:

Will it be just the two of you? (didn't know if any children involved in which case trains become a bit harder). If just the two of you are you hardy enough to take a night train or two? If so, you might cover more ground (albeit with higher degree of difficulty!) while saving a few hotel bills.

I think 1 week would be a stretch, at least to Austria. Do you know where you want to go in Germany? Two weeks definitely more doable if you can swing it.

Raileurope has some mixed train/car rental packages that you might be able to use. If you anticipate car only, take a look at Hertz and other web sites. You can get a quote for how much rentals are based on expected pickup/dropoff locations. It seems like there is little penalty for dropping off in a different city *within* countries, but that can change if you drop in a different country. All that data might help determine where you fly in and out of -- you might get lucky and find a cheap open-jaws flight, like arrive into London and depart from Frankfurt; less backtracking.

Either of you prone to carsickness when in the passenger seat? If so, stay off the squiggly roads if you cross into Switzerland!

It would be the family, the three of us.

One child doesn't seem like a showstopper when it comes to train travel (heck I've seen families travel with lots more), but parenthood seems like it gives you all that other child-related stuff to herc around through train stations.

Interested to see how it turns out. Go for the 2 weeks!

Rachel is old enough to travel light if necessary.

Germany is always worth the way, really! And while beer in the Netherlands is really great - we DO have better beer brands here
Any idea what parts you plan to visit? Where's your wife from, may I ask?

Bye,
Frank

Actually, she's not from Germany. She has German ancestry, so we wouldn't be going to see anything specific.

I'm not certain what I would prefer to see. There is one side of the coin that says tourist-traps are bad and do not represent what the place is really like. But on the other hand, tourist-traps will tend to have multilingual signs, etc., which would make it easier for us as Jenny only has some spotty recollection of her high-school German language classes.

I'd say just don't sweat the language thing, especially in the countries you are talking about. Lots of English speakers, esp in the hospitality industry.

It's a bit more challenging in southern Europe and in small towns, but you can usually communicate somehow. If necessary, I bring a cheat sheet with key phrases such as "I am allergic to shellfish!" and "Do you have any epinephrine?" Yes, I wind up feeling like a bit of an idiot sometimes, but if I only got to go places where I *didn't* look like an idiot, they wouldn't let me leave the house!

Me and my family went one summer for three weeks and then back again the next smmer for another three weeks...
(the first year was pretty much the last year that they still had all border stops, got a ton of cool stamps in my passport, none the second year )
I still want to go again to see everything.
When we went, we only went to small towns because we wanted to see the culture. A good book to get is call (I think) Europe Through the Backdoor. Had great advice on places to see and go and how to get around.
No one in our party spoke any native languages but we had a couple of pocket translation books and I think that we noticed that when the local people even in small towns, saw us trying to speak their language and not being dirty Americans, they were very helpful and would look for words they didn't know in our book and show us what they were trying to say. Make sure you get the translation books that have from English to another, and the other way too. I think that the reason for people here saying bad things about people being rude or what not is because the EXPECT people in other contries to speak English, and think they are rude when they don't.
I'll never forget my time there, absolutely amazing, nothing like it in America.

I think that the reason for people here saying bad things about people being rude or what not is because the EXPECT people in other contries to speak English, and think they are rude when they don't.

Agreed 100 percent, and I've cringed more than once as I watched that happen. But if you make any sort of reasonable effort to communicate, I think people are pretty forgiving of awkward attempts and will work hard to find a way to communicate back and help you.

I like cities for sure but agree re: small towns are the best part

I got interested: Any particular "small towns" in Germany perhaps?

@tfabris: Tony, if you like to come over, I would be happy to meet you for a beer and show you some parts of Germany... unfortunately Frankfurt me be TOO far away for your roundtrip...

Nice to read your impressions, folks!

Bye,
Frank

I got interested: Any particular "small towns" in Germany perhaps?

In 1975, compliments of the government, I got to spend a year in Germany -- worked at a small hospital in Bad Kreuznach (southwest of Mainz/Frankfurt) and then a larger one in Landstuhl. Few of us had cars, so we survived on trains and hitchhiking. We managed to get around...Nuremburg, Heidelberg, Munich and 2 weeks in Gamisch-Partenkirchen skiing under the aegis of someting called "adventure training" (intended to keep us all from becoming heroin addicts!). We got to Amsterdam and Paris, too, and that July I spent about 3 weeks hitchhiking from Landstuhl to Aberdeen and back (I have never been the recipient of such hospitality as on that trip.)

I liked that corner of Germany. The hospital was on a plateau that was very woodsy with windy roads and little villages. A bunch of us used to go running and we would take a rest break at a very small stand of (very tall!) redwood trees that someone had transplanted from California in the 1800s (apparenty the plateau had its own, unique, redwood-friendly weather system or so we were told).

I'll also say that I liked the food better the further south I went. Things seemed lighter and more buttery (I know, a contradiction) in southern Germany. No damphnudlen (sp??) up north, and more wurst, less schnitzel.

My job sent me to Berlin in the mid-80s, so I got to walk through Checkpoint Charlie (verrry spooky) before the wall came down. I was actually back in Frankfurt for 2 weeks last year for work and took the train out to Bingen and rode the ICE down the Rhine from Trier.

If Tony and/or others make the trek, it is, IMO, the best time. Late May and June can have excellent weather without the holiday crowds. You can drive up to a gasthaus or pension at 5PM and usually get a room without booking ahead.

yeah...went first in July, too much holiday people
second year late May and early June (when all the city workers were getting ready for holiday people) was definitely the best

How old is she?

I'm actually inclined to advise you to not try to be too ambitious with travel plans, especially if you are driving and she is quite young: there's nothing worse than being cooped up in a car for hours while Mum and Dad just ogle. Why not consider just spending one or two weeks driving around The Netherlands, going into the Ardennes, and then over into Germany and back?

This way you have a relaxed holiday and you can stretch your legs, and actually enjoy a bit of the local culture too. Don't forget, you can always visit again if you like it...

Français peut-être, mais francophone je pense pas!
T'es de où en Champagne?