Why is mStation that bad? or why is empeg better?

Hi guys,

please don't kill me for the question. I love the empeg (one of the best things I've bought in a loooooong time! together with my 91 Toyota Camry), but as there are any more empegs to buy, some people are asking me, they want to have something similar in the car, and the only alternative seem the Neo mStation Jukebox or whatever is called.

Does it sound OK?, what cannot do the NEO what the empeg can or viceversa?, I don't know...any experience with it? any alternatives? it's much cheaper so....it should mean much worst?

Thanks
Mario

Just as you have to use an empeg to find out why it's really good, you really have to use a Neo to find out why it isn't.

Not very helpful, I realise!

Rob

Have you seen the comparison matrix at:

http://www.mypocket.com/mobilematrix/index.php

I used a Neo for a while... while it is a decent mp3 setup, it really pales in comparison to the empeg. Sound is OK, I never had an issue with that.... I did have problems with HD compatibility and getting a straight answer from their tech support... the hardware is cheap... (I had to buy a 12v dc\dc converter just to get the HD to spin up in my car).

It's no where near as well designed as the empeg... when you get the thing... you think "HMMM this is just a frickin hard-drive tray with a decoder chip slapped on it, and some really poorly laid out buttons on the front" and the display was really cheap looking (then again I had the first gen display, which was way crappy). It's not really made to replace your head unit... in fact you need an aux in or a tape adaptor to run it from your head unit... forget about mounting it in your dash, it doesn't fit most cars, put it under the seat and buy the external LCD/controller for it (which is kind of cheap looking as well). No advanced audio settings for it that I remember.

As I stated earlier it does play mp3's and does a decent job, I also have to give it a thumbs up on the interface... it's really easy to use. it's what you want if you simply care about getting a bargain bin mp3 car player. In my opinion it's like comparing a BMW to a Pinto.... they serve the same purpose just not on the same playing field.

I researched the RioCar and the Neo player.
All the reviews stated that the Neo had cheap buttons, the hard drive sometimes wouldn't spin up, cheap plastic casing that you had to be careful with and a few other issues. It's not worth the $ I think. Luckily I got one of the last RioCars available at the same price!

uhhmmmm.....(cough!!)

Yes, I also heard the Technical Support is pretty bad...and so on, well what I know is that the second generation is a better product (I understand you had (have) a 1st Gen product). The problem is that we are not comparing same price products (originally) don't forget that the reail price of the empeg was not the $350 or whatever many of you paid for it, it is a $1500 product! comparing to $400 Neo (almost 4 times more). I'm not trying here to defend the Neo company. In the other posting here with the titel "I want to bring the empeg back", or so it seems clear what a big problem is to build a "decent" empeg under $1500. There is any other solution for that price on the market!
Display is bad, well anything looks bad comparing with the empeg even expensive headunits. Software may be not the best and Support not good...well you won't find such a good support as for the empeg in very few products (you guys are really good!)

But what a hell do you want for $400?....the Phantombox is not better solution, also bad support, absolut propietary discs, propietary software, you need a head unit! and $800?...well no thank you

Any other ideas?

Mario

Mario makes several great points, including reminding everyone of the fact that the base model Empeg Mark 2 was in the $1000 range with only a 6 GB hard drive. A comfortable but by no means massive 18 GB model cost me $1599, and I had to add on another drive after about a year of use. So the Neo was definitely better in terms of affordability, and it's unfair to compare the Empeg at $199 to the Neo at whatever price it is/was at.

However, as mentioned, the Neo is a stinking piece of bat dung compared to the Empeg... Factor price out of the equation and of course the Empeg is superior. Nobody ever said the Empeg was cheap, but it definitely has been said that we've all gotten what we paid for.

...the Neo is a stinking piece of bat dung compared to the Empeg


I may be wrong, but ISTR reading somewhere that bat dung is odorless.

Don't know if I'd call it bat dung... It does what it's supposed to do... be a cheap mp3 player... and does it's job well enough. It's just not comparable to the Empeg.

has anyone seen anything yet comparable to an empeg considering it is a few years old.

I am not too sure but i am sure that is about 2 years ago the Mk2 popped out as i have had mine for over a year now.

Noone has mentioned that the mstation don't fit in you dash of most cars

Well first off the name (real arguments come in the next paragraph). It seems like an obvious play on the Neo from the Matrix; and mStation M as is mobile, or M as in matrix? Hmmm, an amazingly imaginative group of people.....

I sent a question or 2 to the Neo people. Their response time was 24 hours. While that was nice, the answers I got back were not. They said you should ONLY use 5400 rpm drives and the only ones they reccommended were Maxtor units. If you know anything about Maxtor drives and the Win2k write cache issue this IMMEDIATLY creates a problem (for an unknown reason win2k on some systems never clears the write cache, thus causing many many (did I say a HUGE number?) files to become corrupted. The bug extends to not being able to disable the write cache in hardware manager(even though it looks like it has been). Maxtor drives ALWAYS boot with write cache enabled so those drives are out for me (I have one in my system and I've not written to it in 4 months!)

Since the Neo uses Desktop drives they are more suseptible to shock, damage, and the loss of your mp3 collection.

Cheap build quality all around.

The interface has that nice little grey wire snaking from the drive enclosure to it. That has to look VERY classy!

If your friends are looking for a good unit, the only thing on the market that really compares in terms of overall quality is the phatnoise. It's not the same philosophy, and in a few ways has advantages over the Rio Car. It's removable cartridges are easier to carry around, It's designed to fit in the trunk (a much more secure place if you own a BMW) so you don't have to drag a fragile (VFD) box around with you. It's admittedly more user friendly, (I know, that's not why we bought these things but I have to point it out), if you have only one DIN spot in your car you can put in a good head unit with CD player (DON'T SAY IT!!! It's a choice!! Like abortion!!). You may be wanting a head unit since the drive cartridges are only 20GB. Lastly, it's still made.

In summary

Empeg: high quality (sans a few cables and connectors ) head head unit with uber powers

Neo: Low quality desktop drive in a slide case, crappy interface, btw, what's up with the wire? They couldn't include something RF? not even a half din mountable unit? It's like a Tiburion!

PhatNoise:High quality unit without the cool 'I can mess with it' features of the empeg. More flexibility in head unit choice.

Noone has mentioned that the mstation don't fit in you dash of most cars

I once had the Neo in a Suzuki Sidekick and an Isuzu Rodeo. Both cars have double DIN dashes. The Neo is too long to fit. It stuck out about an inch from the dash on both cars.

In reply to:

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Noone has mentioned that the mstation don't fit in you dash of most cars

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That was mentioned in my post

In reply to:

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Neo: Low quality desktop drive in a slide case, crappy interface, btw, what's up with the wire? They couldn't include something RF? not even a half din mountable unit? It's like a Tiburion!

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I thought the interface was one of it's few, and I stress FEW, redeeming qualities.... simple yet actually quite functional

I wonder if the Neo creators have empegs in their cars....

I have a Neo that I still use and it does the job it needs to. My biggest problem is that the firmware is rarely updated, not open-source, uncustomizable, and pretty stupid. I like to use Random mode a lot and it's randomizer is not random at all. Mostly it starts out by playing the same three or four songs to begin with, which you have to FF past, to get to anything remotely random. It hangs sometimes, overall build quality is poor, support is near horrendous, etc. If the Rios are unavailable, your friend should entertain some kind of a custom setup with a Nomad Jukebox (the new ones are nice), a Rio Riot, or the new Hungarian-produced product. I can't remember what it's called -- something like DMP3? There are postings in the forums about it somewhere.

My recommendation to somebody who wants, but can't get, an empeg is to go for one of the HD-based portables. Whether they choose a Rio Riot, an Apple iPod, or whatnot is up for debate. The only trick is to make sure their head unit has a mini-jack input. This is available from a number of manufacturers, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

20gig rio riot is 400 dollars retail and cheaper on the internet like 331 on pricewatch

Perhaps I should have been more specific when saying 'crappy interface'. I didn't neccessarily mean AUI. I don't have direct experience with it STILL. One would assume there are fewer options, individuals on the list who've owned them (and prof reviewers) commented on the poor build quality of the interface/display unit.

It's not designed to fit IN a dash anywhere. In a car, I don't want objects "hanging out" getting in my way. That by itself reduces the AUI quality.

I originally bought a Neo about a year ago, because I didn't think it was really any different than the empeg, but the fact it used normal desktop drives was attractive (and by looking at *only* that terrible product comparison page, I'd probably still come to that conclusion). Now, a year later, I can tell you the Neo is not worth the metal it's molded from.

Before I even start, I should say $400 is very deceptive. In the end, I ended up paying about $800 total (due to the fact I had to buy a whole bunch of extra [censored]).

My first dissapointment came when I found out it wouldn't work with the IDE controller on my motherboard. I don't know why. Tech support doesn't know why. Nobody knows why. I had to go out and buy a $50 PCI IDE controller card just to get it to connect. I don't have a weird, off the wall motherboard either, it's an Abit Athlon motherboard, and works just fine with everything else.

The second dissapointment came when I found out you couldn't hot swap. That meant I had to reboot if i wanted to connect/disconnect the neo.

The third dissapointment came when I discovered the 'joy' of the buttons. Put simply, they are useless. Hope to god you don't lose your remote, or you'll never be able to control the thing.

The fourth dissapointment came when I realized you have to have a bay to play music. That means you can only play music in your car, unless you shell out another $90 for a home bay. Even then, you can't bring it over to a friend's house and plug it in.

The next dissappointment came when I tried to install it in my car. As others have stated, the neo is an odd shape. It wouldn't fit anywhere. I ended up putting in ot top of my dashboard with double-sided sticky tape. Real classy, I must say. The wires danggling off it were a nice touch. Oh, did I mention I had to get a new stereo too? (which is something i was trying to avoid in the first place by getting the neo over the empeg).

I finally got it installed, and more problems arose. The software is crap. The random is completely not random at all. It's hard to find songs due to the fact there is no searching, and there are no playlists. Add to this the fact that it would simply lock up for no apparent reason. It would be playing, then it wouldn't. Only solution was to take it out of the bay and put it back in (to reboot it). Not too bad if it's on your dash, but good luck if it's in your trunk.

The materials are *very* cheap. The metal ended up bending (warping) from being inserted/removed too much. I had to take off the cover to get it to slide into the bays. The display completely sucks (and no, it doesn't just suck compared to the empeg, it sucks compared to everything) It's a 4x20 LCD screen. Hugo's original mp3 player thing had a cooler display imho. The fact that it uses desktop drives, while sounding cool at first, is actually a bad thing. Desktop drives were not made to be moved around, and cars tend to do a lot of moving. Most people suggest putting a laptop drive in there and using a 2.5"-3.5" converter.

Oh, and don't bother taking these complaints to tech support. They don't care; they already have your money.

To make a long story shorter, I ended up selling all my neo stuff on ebay (I only got about 1/8 what I put in) and bought an empeg. I've never been happier. Installed it in about an hour, and have had to major problems. If it were impossible to get an empeg, I would have gotten a Creative Nomad, or RioVolt (or iPod, but they weren't out at the time).

What an excellent post. These were exactly the reasons I paid the original price for a riocar over an empeg instead of the much cheaper (at the time) neo.

If the "terrible product comparison page" you're reffering to is andy's, I'd say thats a pretty extreme view. I think it's an extremely informative summary. Perhaps in its attempts to remain completely objective, it does not emphasize many of the advantages of the empeg (e.g. user interface).

Andy, perhaps, you might want to edit the page to somehow emphasize some of the strengths and weakness of each product? I would agree that with so many different catagories it a bit too hard to see how much better the empeg is (i'm pretty sure thats not just my opinion).

John

If the "terrible product comparison page" you're reffering to is andy's

The product comparison was nothing to do with me, I just posted the link to it. The page was put together by hybrid8.