Wireless Network Help... again

Long and short of it is that my network was working fine, and today i tried to add a Netgear Wireless Router to the mix, and now part of it doesn't work despite my best efforts. In the place of the new router, i used to have a linux based pc router, and another Netgear access point on the switch. As i said, everything worked fine. Here's what the layout is now:



Now what i'm seeing is this:
Everything works fine on the side of the FS108 switch. No problems there. Everything can get online. I can ping the ME102 access point from this side just fine, but can't ping anything beyond it.

The wireless laptop works fine.

Everything on the hub side (over the wireless), can't see past the ME102 AP to the router, but they can ping the ME102 AP and each other just fine. Nothing on this side can get online.

I've quadrillion checked all of the access point settings and router settings. The SSID, WEP Keys, and everything else are fine.

I'm hoping there's just a huge flaw in the way i set this up. Will the slimp3 be able to see it's server on the switch? Is there a simple rearrangement that i can do to make this all work? Or am i going to have to put the other access point on the switch so the wireless side will work again, thus defeating the reason i got the wireless router?

PLEASE help! I'm at my wits end with this one.

My first guess is that it's a routing issue between the MR814 and the ME102. What routes are setup? I'm not familiar with those two pieces of equipment, so I'm not even sure if the routing can be setup that way.

Nice diagram, BTW. I like how you hand drew it. Everyone else seems to do diagrams in MS paint or photoshop or some sort of graphics program, yet, the animator hand draws it.

I've never touched a MR814; I'm guessing, though, that it needs a route for all the IPs behind ME102, unless they're using NAT.

No routes are setup (showing my networking lack of skills)

So my options for setting up static routes are as follows:

destination IP
IP subnet mask
Gateway IP
Metric


could one of you kindly gents give a simple explanation? the docs are sparse..

Thanks!.

I don't think you should need any routes in this case. The ME102 is essentially just a bridge and the MR814 should be essentially bridging between your wireless and wired networks.

What you have should be working already, as far as I can see.

We don't really have enough detail though to see what you have done wrong. We really need to see the IP addresses, netmasks and gateways you are using on all the devices. They should all really have the same netmask and gateway (the gateway being the MR814).

I'm fairly certain that all of the IP's and netmasks are correct. They are all 192.168.1.xxx, and all use the netmask of 255.255.255.0. The Gateway is set to 192.168.1.1 on everything, which is the IP of the MR814 Router.

That all sounds right, which isn't very helpful

My best guess at the moment would be that the AP in the MR814 doesn't like the ME102 working in APClient mode. That has always been a problem area. You might think having two wireless products from the same company might help, but of course they were probably actually developed by completely different people and bought in (the ME102's hardware and firmware is used by several different companies).

What's driving me nuts is that both sides of the network see the ME102's IP, so there's a connection happening there wirelessly. But for some reason it's like a stopping point, no packets want to go past it either way.

Oh, and i've tried the ME102 in AP mode as well as Bridge mode. no luck.

Might be a silly question, but what IP address for the ME102 does the laptop see? The address on the port connected to the DS108?

If so, then routing through the ME102 should be working.

You were lucky:
I just put in a Linksys wireless network with the able assistance of Cristian who got it working fine with one click of the mouse after I had stared puzzled at the screen for 3 days.
The Rio Receiver goes dead when the microwave starts.
The Cordless phone goes dead when their is anything going on on the network.
The wireless doorbell rings during certain functions and at start up: I only discovered this after I had berated next door's children severely for ringing the doorbell and running away.

Unfortunately, in the eighteenth century nobody thought of putting some cat5 wiring through, the walls are two foot thick and the floors are solid!

Linksys helpline say they know about these things, which doesn't get me very far!

Unless you're creating separate subnets for some reason, you don't want any routing or metrics in the wireless stuff. You do want to make sure that you have it all in bridge mode, if selectable, so they basically act as hubs/switches.
Sorry, I don't know more about the specific netgear devices although I have used the ADSL routers (wired only) and think they're great products.
Try ringing netgear support, when you have a free day to stay on hold. they're usually pretty good and can at least direct you to support pages.

Well it should work - I have almost exactly the same setup, except mine is all Linksys, rahter than NetGear.

I also have the DSL running from a firewall on the main switch.

As for help: Try plugging something directly into the ME102 and see if it works. I had the same problem with a cheap (<£20) switch where it would drop packets for minutes at a time, and then it would work sporadically. I just switched out the switch for a different hub and it was fine.

Paul.

Might be a silly question, but what IP address for the ME102 does the laptop see? The address on the port connected to the DS108?

Unfortunately it probably does count as a silly question

The ME102 is essentially acting as a bridge, so it only has one IP address anyway. The ME102 doesn't do any routing as such (i.e. it doesn't route packets at the IP level, just bridges Ethernet traffic).

Here's my setup if it helps.

I also had to have all of the wireless stuff in APClient Mode (which I know you said worked ok)..

The downstairs wireless router needed to have the other MAC address entered in the configuration screen though.

I don't have a default gateway set on the downstairs WAP either - that might be your problem.

Paul.

I think refering to the Wap11 as a "wireless router" is a bit misleading. In none of it's modes could it be described as routing, it is always acting as a bridge of some description.

Other things to check - on the DSL router is the wireless set to 'Access Point' rather than AP Client or Wireless Bridge? I had loads of trouble with this when I was setting up.

ok, busted - i just quickly threw together the diagram.

Loren,

You may remember way back you tried helping me with a wireless card in my laptop. I had everything configured correctly. We could ping the router but internet access wasn't working. It finally came down to me returning the card and getting another. Once the card was replaced everything worked. So in short, you may just have a bad piece of hardware. Everything looks good according to your diagram, although I'm not an expert, but it should be pretty straightforward.

Also, make sure all your kit has the latest firmware updates. I couldn't get WEP working on my wlan until all my various bits of kit had up to date firmware.

There are other good reasons for updating the firmware on the MR814:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~plonka/netgear-sntp/

I was afraid of that (was going to ask if it was just bridging, but thought I'd punt the question anyway - oh well)

Yikes, nasty netgear hardware!...;)

Paul.

Ah, but it comes in nice blue (metal if you are lucky) boxes, which makes up for it

I've always had good luck with Netgear products, and D-Link. Its the Linksys equipment that always gives me headaches. But then again, we can find horror stories for just about any product.

Loren,
Get the latest firmware for both sides of your wireless bridge and try again (back up your settings first). Since they're both the same brand, you stand a chance.
-Zeke

Heh ...

All my linksys stuff is hidden - the downstairs WAP is under a chair! (don't sit in it though .... - along with the hub, etc)

I hear what you are saying though.

Paul.

Thanks for the posts everyone. My plan is to upgrade the firmware on the router tonight (it's a .1 upgrade), and give it another shot. If that doesn't work... i'll bang my head against a wall a few times and probably stay up til 2am again reconfiguring every little detail until it still won't work, and i'll go back to my trusty old 486 linux router. Technology... bah.

Don't forget that the ME102 has firmware as well (in fact you can also apply the firmware from the LinkSys Wap11 instead, which enables more features).

I've got the latest firmware on the ME102... at least the newest that Netgear recommends. It's one of the earlier models, the 2a's i think. I haven't read anything about applying the Wap11 firmware....

Have you tried tying a device directly into the AP (ME-102), to make sure it isn't a more-than-3-hubs-in-a-row issue?

yup. no dice. i plugged the audrey straight the the AP with the same results.

Okay, still no luck. Everything has the latest firmware and i reset EVERYTHING and started from scratch. Same results. So, for the time being i put another AP on the router, and it seems to be working fine. It seems ridiculous though, since the router IS an AP.... it's redundant. I emailed Netgear support. I don't have time to sit on the phone. This sucks.

Loren you should ditch that router simply because it has no configuration via web interface. Setup summary: install as USB device on 98/2k machine or intstall a SNMP interface program. Bleah! Unless the manual's out of sync with the firmware (no, that'd never happen either).

Besides, the manual's cover artwork sucked ass.[ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/netgear1/ME102_Reference_guide1.pdf]

-Zeke

You mean the AP, not the router, and you are correct, it has no web interface, but i can either jack it in with USB or access it over the network to configure it, so no big deal.

Loren you should ditch that router simply because it has no configuration via web interface.

This is a common misconception, which I beleived until I spent a few minutes thinking about it. AP's shouldn't have web interfaces because they work below the IP layer. They'd be taking up an IP address just for the configuration, and be assuming your network was IP based.

Matthew

Matthew-
Misconception? No.

For home and small business users using non-routable IP addresses behind a firewall, one extra IP address doesn't matter. For larger concerns (usually those with more expert staff), they can set that IP to a bogus/non-routable one or disable the web interface entirely (from both wireless & wired access) and use the serial (or usb etc) interface to set the device.

If your network wasn't IP based, why would you care if there was an IP address on a device?

Come on, no web interface on a Small Business/Home AP/Bridge/Switch is pretty cheesy.

Besides, I think you missed the main point of my post, which was to make Loren feel better about s-canning that thing since it didn't work anyway!



-Zeke

Loren,
Sorry, AP. I wonder if it could be something as weird as it only accepting WEP keys as Hexidecimal? I once set up an AP that would let you use text keys, but they wouldn't work while Hex ones would.

Although, I suppose if you can ping over the wireless, this couldn't be the problem. Bah! Let us know what NG tech support says.

-Zeke

Come on, no web interface on a Small Business/Home AP/Bridge/Switch is pretty cheesy.

I disagree. You only tend to setup an AP once and then never touch it again.

Also don't forget that the ME102 in question was designed about 4+ years ago now, at which point a web interface would have been relatively unusual. I suspect if they were designing it now it would have a web interface.

Loren you should ditch that router simply because it has no configuration via web interface.

Sorry, I disagree too. That is the last reason to ditch a router IMHO. In my (fairly broad) experience configuring network devices (routers, switches, firewalls, VPN gateways, modems etc) any web interface has generally been slow, clunky or simply less useful than any command line/config file based interface.
Sure, a web interface puts a friendly graphical face on it which is useful to non-techies, but I don't think that Loren really needs that.

I suspect if they were designing it now it would have a web interface.

They probably would have since they have to appeal to neophytes. However, I recenly bought an AP from Micro Plus for $29.95. For that price, I had to check it out. It gets configured through USB (supporting your theory that an AP is set up once and never touched again). The utility is extremely primative but it gets the job done (if you know what you're doing). Incidentally, that AP from Micro Plus has the best range and stability of any AP I have ever used. It is an excellent value.

Andy, I figured it was circa 2002 as that was the date on the manual. You're right, I wouldn't expect it on 4 y.o. equipment (although a few WebRamps I had did have web interfaces - circa 1999).

I fiddle with my A/P every so often (semi-monthly) - upgrading the firmware, tweaking which MAC's are allowed and so on, so I guess we use our equipment differently & have different priorities. I find a web interface simply the most convenient.

-Zeke

Just for posterity...

I finally took the time to call Netgear support (pretty quick and seemed pretty knowledgable too). What they said it comes down to is that the Router has no bridge mode that will work with the ME102.

This still makes no sense to me... seeing as the Router is an Access Point, and the ME102 can be set as an access point CLIENT... it don't see why it won't work. But i guess i'll have to take their word for it.

Anyone knowledgable enough about this stuff to know if they are blowing smoke?

*pissed*