Buying a new (used) car

As regular viewers will know, my last car is totally hosed. It's currently sitting down at a local garage waiting for the scrapyard to collect it. This cloud has a slightly shiny lining, however -- I get to buy a new car.

Actually, I say new car. I mean used car.

I plan to buy a used car from a dealership, rather than from a car supermarket or private ad, because I want the extra peace of mind.

So, this afternoon, I dragged Jen out to a couple of local dealerships to see roughly what I could get for my money.

First stop was the Peugeot dealership. They've got some quite nice cars, but I'm not sure about the styling on the 307. The 206 was nice, but I don't think it's big enough. I'm 6 foot tall and most of my driving's on the motorway -- visiting family and the like, so I want something comfortable. Obviously the car itself has got to be good on the motorway.

I was pleasantly surprised at what I could get for my money. I've got around £8000 of my savings to spend, and it turns out that I can get an '02 registered Peugeot with a reasonable selection of features for that money.

Any thoughts about the Peugeot? Am I right in thinking that it might be a bit small for me?

My other criterion is that it must be possible to get a snowboard in the boot (trunk). I ride a 164 wide, so with the bag I'd need about 175cm of space. Fortunately, this can be diagonal.

Next stop was the Ford dealership to look at the Ford Focus. I think I prefer the Focus -- it's a larger car, so I think it'll be more comfortable to drive. Unfortunately, it's more expensive. For my £8000, I can only get an X-registered car. Is it worth forking over slightly more cash and getting a 51-reg or 02-reg car? Should I pay the extra for a diesel? Admittedly, there didn't seem to be many diesels on the used lot.

Any other suggestions? We went along to the Renault dealer as well, but they were closed by the time we got there.

The Ford salesman is implying that there might be a bit of haggling involved. I hate haggling. Any good tips? How much might I be able to get knocked off the price for cash/banker's draft? Should I haggle for more options or a free warranty instead?

How easy is it to fit the empeg in the Focus? It's got a non-standard sized radio fitted. Can I easily get an adapter?

Actually, thinking about it, should I get a draft from the building society? Should I just pay by credit card and pay it off by cheque before the end of the month? What's likely to get me the best deal?

Any other cars around that I should consider? Are there any other questions I should be asking the salesman?

Anyway, I'm off for a test drive in on Monday. So many questions. I look forward to your suggestions.

How easy is it to fit the empeg in the Focus? It's got a non-standard sized radio fitted. Can I easily get an adapter?

Ah, I found the Ford Focus Owners Club forums. Adapters are easily available.

I have found this both interesting and helpful. Of course, it is geared twards American dealers but I imagin the rules arn't very different elsewhere.

I've had plenty of Focus' as hire cars and have always been very pleased with them. Plenty of room, nice responsive engines and very comfortable (driven to London and back plenty of times).

The only problem is that they hemorrage value like mad. After a couple of years you'll be left with a car worth absolutely bugger all.

The only thing I've found that works with car dealers is to be straight to the point, don't fanny around, and above all. Don't look like you give a [censored], if you don't like the price they offer, say you'll look elsewhere. They'll either [censored] themselves and knock the price down, or say no. In which case, walk away. The best plan of attack is to use another dealer as an example, I know of someone who got several grand knocked of a new car by simply not giving a [censored]. Go to parkers.co.uk and get the book price for the car and work from there.

Being able to pay the full amount with a draft will probably make the dealer more willing to do a deal.

if going for another oil burner the peugeot is probably about the best of the engines in a front wheel drive. most peugeots i have driven have had a good chassis and have been at heart bomb proof but they do tend to shed parts that the car deems it doesn't need like trim etc.

Henrick (h-blake) changes cars regurlay and dirves a pug so he might be tempted to part with his car with empeg mount already installed just an idea.

Fords i don't like but have never driven them since they started to make more intresting cars.

Jap cars are normally pretty reliable but can be more costly on parts so therefore insurance may be higher.

If i was going for a small inoffensive diesel car it would probably be a pug.

but i am looking for a small very offensive petrol car

The used car market is sooooo good at the moment - remember you hold *all* the cards and can either pop to another dealer of the same make or go to another brand.

The Focus is pretty decent, though apparently they are rusting in all the "usual" Ford places. The build quality seems reasonable, but I was most unimpressed to see they have *plastic* door handles.

Peugeot is ok, but I was commenting to my boss that the interior of the 406 (that we hired, brand new) is still crappily typical of French cars - I randomly pushed hard on the dash and it gave a huge creak and then pushed one side of the radio surround and the other side popped out!!!

I think a lot of people here are fans of Japanese vehicles - if you don't want anu more engine problems I suspect that is where you should go...

Gareth

Another point of view to consider is this. You might take this opportunity to seriously upgrade your choice of auto. Instead of looking for a nearly-new modest vehicle, think about an older high-end car.

Rather than spending $12,000 for a year-old Focus, think about spending $9,000 for a 6 or 8 year old <object of your heart's desire here> and allocate the remaining $3,000 to put it in top-notch condition.

Advantages: You end up with a much nicer, more enjoyable car. The bulk of depreciation is over with, so it retains its value better.

Disadvantages: You don't have the newest technology and ideas, so it isn't as "modern" a car. It's older, has more miles on it, it's going to require more maintenance--be prepared for some pretty scary initial repairs (ball joints, brakes, steering rack, etc.) but once you've dumped that $3,000 into it, you have a good chance of a trouble free car. Remember, it was a higher quality vehicle to begin with.

I generally go way off the deep end with my cars -- I have been known to buy a car for $1500, and put another $6,000 into it (can you say: ShoWagon?) but I end up with exactly the car I want. While I may now have $8,000 invested in that car, I could turn around and sell it any day of the week for at least $3500.

tanstaafl.

I've got my Empeg in a 2000 Focus. if the UK version of the Focus is like the US version, the adapter kit was inexpensive, about ~20 USD. I have no idea how different the UK version is different from the US version, but I have over 75,000 miles on mine at the moment without a problem. I have the 2.0L four valve gasoline engine and it's great for a back-and-forth/work-car. I personally think this is a great compliment to the car, as I am a horsepower junkie (currently own a S10 Pickup with a 500HP Corvette LT1 & a Mustang with a 1200HP Turobcharged 5.0L) who drives cars real hard. The Focus is a great deal for the price, in the US.

Instead of looking for a nearly-new modest vehicle, think about an older high-end car

My other motivation for getting a modest vehicle is the cheaper insurance. My old car was group 9, and was costing me about £1200pa. The Focus is group 5 or 6 (depending on trim level) and will save me about £400 a year. The Peugeot's about the same.

it's going to require more maintenance

I'm not going there. I don't have the expertise, tools or space to do my own maintenance, and I can't really afford to set the money aside for a mechanic every few months.

This was the main problem with my last car -- because of the age, it had turned into a bit of a money pit, maintenance-wise.

group 9 for that old tub yikes

but get some insurance quotes first as you might find that it is your age and lack of driving history that pumps the price up. Also the higher value car might also pump up the quote as well.

As for relability japs cars are reliable but when they break parts are stupidly exensive

Euro cars do break but parts can be dirt cheap So swings and round abouts on that one.

have you looked at smart cars pretty ideal for london and are actually not bad for M-way driving. most modern small cars actually eat motorway milag with amasing ease. I occasionally used my exs 106 with the 1.1 engine and on the motorway it was not that far behind the thundering great BMW i own. it did not have a huge pile of power but i coped quite well. that said i don't find a seven too bad when i went from perth to edinburgh in one.

but when you get to twisty bits the 106 was termendous fun way better than the big BMW.

So go try a little car you might be surprised

but when you get to twisty bits the 106 was termendous fun way better than the big BMW.



It's a well known axiom that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

tanstaafl.

Well if that were true then ford fiestas and vauxhal novas would be good but they aren't they are horrible

It's a well known axiom that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

It ain't how fast you drive it, it's how many G you can pull.

Well, I went to a different Ford dealer at the weekend, and after a test drive, I put down a deposit on a low mileage 02-reg Silver Ford Focus Zetec. I pick the car up on Wednesday or Thursday.

Now I've just got to shop around for insurance.

I've got my Empeg in a 2000 Focus. if the UK version of the Focus is like the US version, the adapter kit was inexpensive, about ~20 USD.

Yeah, it's about £15 for the kit in the UK.

I have no idea how different the UK version is different from the US version, but I have over 75,000 miles on mine at the moment without a problem.

Probably not much given the trend today to reuse designs as much as possible. For example, IIRC, the Audi A3, Audi TT, Golf and Beetle all share the same floor pan.

I have the 2.0L four valve gasoline engine and it's great for a back-and-forth/work-car.

I opted for the 1.6L 16v petrol engine. It gets better mpg than the 1.8 or 2.0, and insurance should be cheaper.

I was pleasantly surprised at the performance when I took it on the test drive. I only had it up to 60mph, but I think it'll be fine for motorway driving -- it felt like it had plenty left. This with driver and 2 passengers in it.

Obviously, I've been driving a 9-year old 2.0L diesel, with no turbo, so I'm easily pleased.

I suspect that your back-and-forth/work-car patterns will be quite similar to my jaunts up and down the motorway -- the UK's only a small country after all .

Hmmm...

Have you driven a modern Fiesta ? With the 1.25 or 1.4 Zetec engine the Fiesta is great fun. It has one of the best power steering setups I have ever used (the MX5 power steering feels even better). The chassis setup is ok, though when you really start throwing it into corners you do wish for slightly stiffer springs.

It is let down by its brakes though, when I am trashing my wife's 1.4 Zetec it is always the brakes that give in first. Next time it needs new pads it is getting something better than the bog standard ones Ford fit. I wonder if you can fit Puma disks and calipers to it ?

P.S. It's obviously not as much fun as an MX5, but the Fiesta can be very entertaining, particularly so when I forget that it doesn't have brakes like the MX5 ;-)

i will admit it was the old mk3 fiesasco which was a truely awful car not slightly bad but truely terrible.

The steering was heavy and zero feedback, brakes awful, engine hesitant and nasty, build quality awful, chassis terminal understeer everywhere.

needed to be taken out and shot but a worse thing happened little miss crash my ex crashed it 23 yrs old and written off three cars and blown up the engine of two others including a mk3 astra diesel that can't be killed by any know force in the universe. i was really impressed with that

Oh yeah my last encounter with a focus was getting back on the road after it went backwards into a sign followed by a nice rocky bank. Amasingly no body work damage the sign was taken out by the tow eye and the rear suspension arm bent but no body work dents what so ever.

But i don't think roger will be doing anything that stupid just be warned of lift off oversteer great fun when you expect it damn scarey when you don't. The focus is a great handling car by all accounts i just thinnk the focus in question was presing on a bit

Apparently the Focus RS is stupidly fast, but apparently we'll have to wait for the Focus Mk2 for a 4x4 Cosworth version.

Gareth

There is stupidly fast tin tops and then there is just plan fast



Just can i afford it

Apparently the Focus RS is stupidly fast

Apparently the boy racers on ClioSport don't think so!

Remember, you have to budget for a woolly hat, high-tech rain proof, warm jacket and driving gloves, apart from that: Go for it!

As well as the garage, tyres, fuel, tyres, race licence, more tyres, trailer, tyres, entry fees, tyres, track day insurance and did i mention the tyres.

Somebody tryed racing me while i was on the test drive boy to 206 Gtis get really small in the rear view mirror really quick.

Oh yeah did i mention it is a bit lacking in creature comforts

Don't see the handy Empeg size din slot in that lot, are you sure about this?

Why you think i want a karma

So is that one a goodun? What's the spec?

1.6 k supersport 138bhp on dyno
1995 chassis
6spd box
caterham dry sump (the conning tower type)
LSD
widetrack
brake bias valve (with sticker to indicate rear)
adjustable suspension platforms
7 spare wheels with avon acb10s
full roll cage
side intusion bar
side impact bar (slightly different to intrusion bar)
FIA bar as well
6 point harness for driver
3 point harness and white knuckles for passenger
carbon metallic pads
full weather gear
Flat floor set up (car has been set up on a flat floor for corner weights and suspension alingment sorted it improves handling)
Honycomb tank protection

An ex racer and it came second in the chamionship in 2000 with full race history with arrowstar and ratrace after arrowstar folded

Price 12,500 which doesn't seen to steep i can get newer ex racers but they cost more

I have decided to go for an ex racer instead of a pure road car as the racers come with more goodies but have had a harder life but also the good ones have had much better servicing.

The ex racers are also as nice to drive as the pure road ones, but with a caterham the line between pure race and pure road is not that well defined since they isn't that much difference

i like this one but the colour is a bit off and the carbon metallic pads are terrible when cold no feedback and poor performance and you can't get them hot in road use unlesss you are insane.

Well if that were true then ford fiestas and vauxhal novas would be good but they aren't they are horrible


Ahh... but you miss my point.

Speed (and the enjoyment thereof) is relative. In almost every road situation, things other than the capability of your car dictate how fast you can go, things like traffic, police enforcement, etc.

So, which is more fun? Driving a 7-series BMW at 15% of its capability, or some silly Ford Fiesta at 90% of its capability at the same speed?

The fun-factor of thrashing that Fiesta for all it's worth (and to the maximum limits of your skill) is considerable compared to a boring cruise in the BMW.

tanstaafl.

Your exactly right on this. My first car was a '90 Geo Tracker (cheep forgin knockoff of a jeep). The thing had like 80 hp but it was a blast to drive. It probably helped that it was a manual gearbox and rear wheel drive (and 4x4 : ). It probably also helped that there was about 5 feet between the (front and rear) wheels. The thing drove like a go-kart.

I still miss that car....

Would have kept it but no AC. It's just too hot down here in florida. Still, drove it for a good 4 years or so.

i will happily accept this argumant as it is actually very true providing i can state a vauxhall nova as an exception as it is a horrible car to drive.

One of the attractins of a caterham is they are fun to drive at 25% of there capabilities but at 100% then you need locking up if you drive on a public road.

Buy that Caterham - sounds like a goodun for that price.

Pads are easy and cheap to change...

Full respray at Caterham in a colour of your choice is £1000

Oh, and get yourself booked on some trackdays at BookaTrack.com once you've got it

Just can i afford it

Try thinking of reasons why you deserve to own one - it really works!

Oh yeah did i mention it is a bit lacking in creature comforts

I'll readily admit to knowing nothing about those things, but shouldn't it at least have pedals (gas, break, clutch)?

-Mike

The pedals aren't seen in that pic as they are up under the dash just out of sight

The pedals aren't seen in that pic as they are up under the dash just out of sight

Hmm, brings an entirely new meaning to driving with your knees

I pick the car up on Wednesday or Thursday.

Hooray! I picked the car up earlier today, and I now pwn a shiny silver Ford Focus that's sitting in the road outside the flat.

The snowboard fits, too.

Now I have to resist the urge to keep nipping out to check that it's still there.

Sod looking to see if it is still there get the empeg in.

I think the new face would really work in the angualr dash of a focus

Hopefully i will be getting mine as well not so shiny but 250bhp per ton

Sod looking to see if it is still there get the empeg in.

Unfortunately, my amp blew up shortly before my Primera did, so I can't put it in there yet.

Besides, it's hardware. It's a toss up between travelling up to Cambridge for the day, and getting Cambscar to put it in, or finding somewhere in North London who knows what they're doing.

I think the new face would really work in the angualr dash of a focus

I agree with you that the stock face is going to look a little odd against the silver dash.

I'm not quite sure how to match the colours of the dials, either. I'll take some photos tomorrow, and then we can take this discussion over to the Installs section.

If you know and trust cambscar who know what an empeg is i would go there.

I have been told by one place here that the empeg doesn't excist. An empeg can stimulate plenty blank stares

Ooh, that reminds me - I need to sort something out with Cambs Car Audio installing my empeg in my mx5...

I'll take some photos tomorrow

Sod it, here's a photo today.

How long will it stay that clean?

If you are going to wash it occasionally buy some zymol, even if all you do is smell it

How long will it stay that clean?

Heh. Probably not long. There are plenty of car valet places round here, so even if I'm too lazy to wash it myself (likely), it won't be too hard to keep it clean.

If you are going to wash it occasionally buy some zymol, even if all you do is smell it

That's the stuff that smells of chocolate and things, yes? Frankly, looking at the price, I think all I would be doing is smelling it -- it's far to expensive to actually use on the car.