Posted by: schofiel
Debt
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 15:31
While I'm no economist, this certainly does worry me, and the big question is exactly how problems might manifest themselves. Are we talking about massive inflation? That would imply that it makes sense to own land, but it's a bad idea to hold cash or other things that can easily loose their value like government bonds. Stocks of U.S. companies are harder to analyze, particularly when the big ones tend to be multinationals who are (hopefully) smart about hedging currency risks. The biggest wild card of all is the U.S. / China relationship. We've outsourced all kind of manufacturing to China, and it comes back in the form of cheap goods at Wal-Mart. More interestingly, the Chinese yuan is tied to the U.S. dollar, meaning that they're (currently) sinking along with us. If the Chinese unhooked their currency from the dollar, then the price of Chinese goods, in US dollars, could increase, which would throw everything about outsourcing out of whack.
Personally, I've been slowly increasing the diversity of my retirement portfolio. I'm planning to double the "international" portion of my holdings by the end of the year.
Personally, I've been slowly increasing the diversity of my retirement portfolio. I'm planning to double the "international" portion of my holdings by the end of the year.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 15:41
Yeah it is, and has been for quite a while. That the article seem to lay this at Bush's feet is disappointing, as this has been going on for quite a while from all parties. Admittedly Bush has made the problem worse, but this administration is merely the next step in what has been a worsening problem.
I'm afraid it is the nature of our nation to decide the things we can't live without and then buy them whether we can afford them or not. And everyone wants to cut everyone elses programs, but is unwilling to sacrifice their own.
Should we have cut taxes? Probably not. But I think if the Democrats had been in power they'd have likely spent the money somewhere else other than tax breaks- I doubt they would have made any serious dent in our downward spiral of debt. We just don't know how to not spend more money than we have.
It doesn't matter how good the cause is, if we end up running ourselves into the ground then we're all gonna suffer. Such is the fate of democracy, though, right? We can just keep voting ourselves more credit until the whole thing collapses.
I'm afraid it is the nature of our nation to decide the things we can't live without and then buy them whether we can afford them or not. And everyone wants to cut everyone elses programs, but is unwilling to sacrifice their own.
Should we have cut taxes? Probably not. But I think if the Democrats had been in power they'd have likely spent the money somewhere else other than tax breaks- I doubt they would have made any serious dent in our downward spiral of debt. We just don't know how to not spend more money than we have.
It doesn't matter how good the cause is, if we end up running ourselves into the ground then we're all gonna suffer. Such is the fate of democracy, though, right? We can just keep voting ourselves more credit until the whole thing collapses.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 15:46
I won't disagree with all of what you said by any means, but I don't think that this would have happened without Bush:
Quote:
Between 2001 and 2004, the annual budget for the Pentagon and domestic security rose by US$87.1 billion, an increase of 27.5 per cent in four years. In the process, a budget that had a surplus of US$128 billion in 2001 crumbled into a deficit of US$412 billion last year -- the biggest annual shortfall in United States history.
Posted by: matthew_k
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 16:48
Quote:
Probably not. But I think if the Democrats had been in power they'd have likely spent the money somewhere else other than tax breaks- I doubt they would have made any serious dent in our downward spiral of debt.
The tax breaks weren't a matter of spending money, they were a matter of borrowing the money to pay for the tax breaks.
The Bush "budget" is a joke. He presents his budget every year without including his biggest project, Iraq. This year, he failed to include any money for overhauling social security, his biggest domestic pet project. He then goes on include income from drilling in the artic national wildlife refuge, a propsal which has been shot down every year by a congress controlled by his own party. His budget director defended the ANWR drilling income by saying: 'the budget is the right place to present the entirety of the president's policies, so all of his proposals are reflected in there.' The absurdity of that comment is priceless, really.
Clinton, love him or hate him, balanced the budget. They may have been richer times, but it wasn't something trivial to do. I remember my mother being home from work because the federal government was shut down because Clinton wasn't signing an unbalanced budget.
I grew up being told that those big spending democrats would be the death of the country. The truth of the matter seems to be that the problem is not that the democrats want to spend more money, but that they want to spend it on social programs instead of the worlds largest standing army.
Matthew
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 17:10
Quote:Yeah, that's the party line, but it isn't true. I remember my mother telling me that if Bush won the first election we'd go deeper into debt. "It's just what Republican's do", she said, and it's true (She usually votes Republican, BTW, so this wasn't a partisan remark).
I grew up being told that those big spending democrats would be the death of the country.
I think both parties like to spend money we don't have, and it's true one focuses on social programs and the other the military, both which I think are important to the welfare of our country. The difference is that at least Democrats are generally more honest about it. Being a pretty conservative guy, this is an aspect of the Republican party that drives me nuts.
Almost enough to make me want to elect a Libertarian . . .
Posted by: cushman
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 17:17
Quote:
Almost enough to make me want to elect a Libertarian . . .
Whose stance I find I lean more and more towards each day.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:08
Quote:
The Royal Bank of Bush is running into difficulties
With the extraordinary profligacy of the EEC, I'd be surprised if we're in a much better state, this side of the pond.
To appease the French, the European parliament is moved from Brussels to Strasbourg each month.: Files are taken by a gleaming fleet of lorries, kept for that purpose; MEP's are entitled to living and travel expenses between, and at, both sites and the cost of the buildings to house all of this makes the senses reel.
I describe a very small, if I can mix my metaphores, tip of the iceberg in an obscene gravy train at most European's expense.
And that extraordinarily vacuous Mr.Blair, who will not be remembered for much except his chicanory, wants me to vote for its constitution!
I think not: Brits., put your X where Boxer puts his!
Posted by: andy
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:14
Quote:
put your X where Boxer puts his!
Between the BO and the ER ?
Posted by: peter
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:24
Quote:
And that extraordinarily vacuous Mr.Blair, who will not be remembered for much except his chicanory, wants me to vote for its constitution!
I think not: Brits., put your X where Boxer puts his!
I though the constitution gave more power to the elected bits and less to the unelected bits? Or have I just been spun?
Peter
Posted by: boxer
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:49
Quote:
Between the BO and the ER ?
That's it, right in the middle, where it counts!
I can see that my political career is getting off to a flying start!!!
If it's a choice between Bo Derek and the Queen, I know which way I'll be spinning!!!
Posted by: drakino
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:49
I think for me, this part of the article reaffirmed that you can't vote for a person based on what they say election year.
Looking back at this comment, and many others, Bush has very much done a 180 once he put his hand on the Bible to be sworn in back in 2001. It's a shame to see, and I wish we had some sort of process to keep the elected officials accountable for their earlier "plans" talked about, to maybe make such talk mean more then just an attempt to sway voters.
Quote:
On Nov. 1, 2000, as George W. Bush was campaigning for the White House, he warned an audience in Minneapolis that the Democrats would lead the nation into a future of higher taxes and slower economic growth that "could mean an end to this nation's prosperity." Bush won the election in part by portraying himself as an antidote to tax-and-spend liberals. Yet despite this bold austerity rhetoric, discretionary spending rose 23 per cent in Bush's first term. Just over four years after harping on the dangers of fiscal irresponsibility, the President is on his way to making his own warnings a reality.
Looking back at this comment, and many others, Bush has very much done a 180 once he put his hand on the Bible to be sworn in back in 2001. It's a shame to see, and I wish we had some sort of process to keep the elected officials accountable for their earlier "plans" talked about, to maybe make such talk mean more then just an attempt to sway voters.
Posted by: andy
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:54
Quote:
I though the constitution gave more power to the elected bits and less to the unelected bits? Or have I just been spun?
It is so difficult to know. Both sides are no doubt spinning to at least some degree and I expect reading all 349 pages I would be none the wiser either.
http://ue.eu.int/igcpdf/en/04/cg00/cg00087-re01.en04.pdf
I can't even bring myself to read the whole Wikipedia entry on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_constitution
If all it does is clarify and tidy up then I am happy to sign up, but who knows what it really does ?
I agree with Boxer on all the wasted resources for the parliament though.
Posted by: andy
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:56
Damn, only page 12 and it has the word "PLENIPOTENTIARIES"...
Posted by: andy
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 18:59
These are all new to me:
"The anthem of the Union shall be based on the 'Ode to Joy' from the Ninth Symphony by Ludwig van Beethoven.
The motto of the Union shall be: 'United in diversity'.
Europe day shall be celebrated on 9 May throughout the Union."
"The anthem of the Union shall be based on the 'Ode to Joy' from the Ninth Symphony by Ludwig van Beethoven.
The motto of the Union shall be: 'United in diversity'.
Europe day shall be celebrated on 9 May throughout the Union."
Posted by: boxer
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 20:12
Well, taking your line, once they took the middle "E" out of "EEC" and it became an unworkable mangle of disparate motivations, as opposed to a sensible way of competing in the World's marketplaces, they lost me.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 20:16
Quote:
The motto of the Union shall be: 'United in diversity'.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Power
Quote:
The anthem of the Union shall be based on the 'Ode to Joy'
Joyful, joyful, we adore Thee, God of glory, Lord of love;
Hearts unfold like flowers before Thee, opening to the sun above.
Melt the clouds of sin and sadness; drive the dark of doubt away;
Giver of immortal gladness, fill us with the light of day!
All Thy works with joy surround Thee, earth and heaven reflect Thy rays,
Stars and angels sing around Thee, center of unbroken praise.
Field and forest, vale and mountain, flowery meadow, flashing sea,
Singing bird and flowing fountain call us to rejoice in Thee.
Thou art giving and forgiving, ever blessing, ever blessed,
Wellspring of the joy of living, ocean depth of happy rest!
Thou our Father, Christ our Brother, all who live in love are Thine;
Teach us how to love each other, lift us to the joy divine.
Mortals, join the happy chorus, which the morning stars began;
Father love is reigning o’er us, brother love binds man to man.
Ever singing, march we onward, victors in the midst of strife,
Joyful music leads us Sunward in the triumph song of life.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 20:57
Quote:
Joyful, joyful, we adore Thee, God of glory, Lord of love;
Hearts unfold like flowers before Thee, opening to the sun above.
Melt the clouds of sin and sadness; drive the dark of doubt away;
Giver of immortal gladness, fill us with the light of day!
All Thy works with joy surround Thee, earth and heaven reflect Thy rays,
Stars and angels sing around Thee, center of unbroken praise.
Field and forest, vale and mountain, flowery meadow, flashing sea,
Singing bird and flowing fountain call us to rejoice in Thee.
Thou art giving and forgiving, ever blessing, ever blessed,
Wellspring of the joy of living, ocean depth of happy rest!
Thou our Father, Christ our Brother, all who live in love are Thine;Teach us how to love each other, lift us to the joy divine.
Mortals, join the happy chorus, which the morning stars began;
Father love is reigning o’er us, brother love binds man to man.
Ever singing, march we onward, victors in the midst of strife,
Joyful music leads us Sunward in the triumph song of life.
Don't see much latitude for the needs and aspirations of a multicultural community in that lot
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 21:03
Quote:
Don't see much latitude for the needs and aspirations of a multicultural community in that lot
No, but just think: With a little work, I think it could make a nifty soundtrack for an invasion.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Debt - 08/03/2005 23:59
And the sad sad part, that we of the rest of the world are horrified at, is that he got *reelected* for another 4 years. Madness. Simply madness.
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Debt - 09/03/2005 01:26
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Power
Thank you, Bitt. Saved me digging out my Orwell... I'm getting old, couldn't remember how those slogans were worded.
tanstaafl.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Power
Thank you, Bitt. Saved me digging out my Orwell... I'm getting old, couldn't remember how those slogans were worded.
tanstaafl.
Posted by: canuckInOR
Re: Debt - 09/03/2005 04:48
Quote:
And the sad sad part, that we of the rest of the world are horrified at, is that he got *reelected* for another 4 years. Madness. Simply madness.
Yeah, well... there's a pretty large group (maybe not a mandate's worth, though) down here that are pretty horrified, too.
Posted by: julf
Re: Debt - 09/03/2005 07:20
Here's some views from one small part of the rest of the world: 15 x 60 seconds: The Finns talk to the U.S. President.
Pretty cool that a Commodore of the Navy would say "Violence creates only more violence". But I also wouldn't have thought I would live to see the day when a Commodore of the Finnish Navy is called "Georgij Alafuzoff"
Pretty cool that a Commodore of the Navy would say "Violence creates only more violence". But I also wouldn't have thought I would live to see the day when a Commodore of the Finnish Navy is called "Georgij Alafuzoff"
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: Debt - 10/03/2005 03:38
But the point of the article is that if the whole house of cards comes down, designations like Liberal, Conservative, Democrat, Republican, Labour, Tories, EEC, USA, etc., will be pointless.....we'll all be in it together....
Posted by: petteri
Re: Debt - 10/03/2005 10:09
Quote:
But the point of the article is that if the whole house of cards comes down, designations like Liberal, Conservative, Democrat, Republican, Labour, Tories, EEC, USA, etc., will be pointless.....we'll all be in it together....
Unfortunately I doubt that even the collapase of the United States would really unify anything or anybody. Just a tad more evolution is needed in this corner of the universe...
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: Debt - 10/03/2005 18:44
Quote:
The Royal Bank of Bush is running into difficulties.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/10/budget.ap/index.html
...the latest instance of 'don't anyone confuse me with the facts!'