Hurricane Katrina

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Another Co-worker talked to his dad today. His dad happens to work at an oil trading firm. His father said to make sure you fill up your tank every day since some areas could endup without any gas to buy.

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Hmmmm... that's what people did when we had the fuel blockades here in 2001. All it did was run the pumps drier sooner than it would otherwise had done because all the fuel was in the vehicles than at the station.

eg. my aunt, who drives very little had 1/4 of a tank left (enough for a week or two) but she brimmed it the first morning and probably still had 7/8ths of it left at the end of the week, when people who needed the fuel couldn't get to work.

Gareth

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All of our gasoline is refined locally from oil pumped out of the ground in Alaska some 4000 miles away from the Gulf Coast.

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He acknowledged that while higher gas prices are an inconvenience, Georgians should keep in mind the massive humanitarian disaster in Lousiana and Mississipi where thousands of people may be dead.

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What I love is the Bush said nothing for the first two days, allowing doubt and fear about oil prices to spread throughout the entire US. Then, once the oil companies have had a chance to raise pricies, they announce they're going to release oil from the strategic oil reserve. This means the oil companies will have plenty of very expensive gas to sell us. So much could have been avoided by a simple statement ASAP that they'd release as much crude oil was necessary to maintain an adequate supply while it was able to without compromising Homeland Security.

Matthew

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You're right. A lot of the coverage at this point is pointing fingers as to the poorly executed rescue effort. At this point I think it's better to get people safe, fed, and housed (in some way) and worry about what was done wrong later.

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The focus shouldn't be on those questions YET.

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a country with America's resources should not be in this much disarray in responding to it.

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93p, that's nothing - I've been filling up over 96p for a couple of months, and today, 99p a litre.

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(although no mention in Al Jazeera, strangely).

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Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Mark,
Agreed, but that little fact didn't fit into my editorial snipe very well and I didn't want to thread-jack with that horror and throw this thread into a 'which disaster is worse' argument.

However, the can is open, so I'll put in my $0.02 and have it done. Both events are horrific tragedies. I don't think there's anything meaningful to be gained by comparing/contrasting the two events. Time will tell the long term effects of both.

That said, I still think Al Jazeera's lack of any mention of the storm & its victims makes a better statement of how their editorial staff feels about the value of human life than anything I can say.

TonyC & Ninti-

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Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.



Here's one of the more frustrating examples of this situation.

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although no mention in Al Jazeera, strangely

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Al Jazeera's lack of any mention of the storm & its victims

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Actually, there have been offers from all over. The U.S. has been turning them all down. Just because you haven't heard it on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.

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I can't wait 'til this gets politicized... ugh.

If this is not a matter of politics, I really don't know what is. (Ugh, I refrained, with utmost difficulty, from launching into one of my favourite political rants )

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there are those stations that are already placing blame

I think there's a lot of blame to be placed

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I think there's a lot of blame to be placed

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They are asking very direct questions on CNN of Bush Sr. and Clinton, they have no answers. Wow, they are in fujll spin mode.

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I'm just curious, but what do either of them have to do with the situation or the response to it?

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FEMA director Michael Brown has some good answers to the criticisms without spin or disregard.

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Well, I've watched a lot of Irwin Allen films.

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Where's the Dunkirk of little boats? Where is the United States Marine Corps?

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If this is not a matter of politics, I really don't know what is.

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FEMA director Michael Brown has some good answers to the criticisms without spin

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I just watched Anderson Cooper on CNN rip Mary Landrieu (LA senator) a new one on national TV. Very impressive. I'll try and capture it from my TV in a bit and post it. I'm now on board with you guys... the questions need to be asked starting soon.

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te political blogs being political about this as justification for politics being inserted into this? Interesting.

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Using a tragedy like tthis as opportunity to further a political agenda is tasteless.

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The horror that is happening there is bordering on the surreal. Every headline is worse than the one before it and the situation is so bad it's hard for me to comprehend.

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You quote political blogs being political about this as justification for politics being inserted into this?

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Even the New York Times is sensible enough to note that global warming didn't cause this hurricane. To say otherwise is not only unprovable, it's unlikely.

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Using a tragedy like tthis as opportunity to further a political agenda is tasteless.

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Check out this interview

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Mr. Bush will head first to Mobile, Ala., where he is expected to participate in a press briefing on the hurricane damage, according to his press schedule. Afterward, he will fly over Mobile to Biloxi, Miss., where he will participate in a walking tour of damaged neighborhoods.

The president will then view the Mississippi coastline by plane, en route to New Orleans, La., where he will land at Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport. There, he is expected to issue a statement on the government's recovery efforts.

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"They were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people. I'm like you got to be kidding me - this is a national disaster," he said. "Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get them moving to New Orleans. That's them thinking small, man. This is a major, major, major deal. I can't emphasize that enough man, this is crazy."

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In fairness, I am not always sure what to expect of some elements of our federal government, diminished and underfunded or not. How big is FEMA? How many full time staff would it take to *really* take on Katrina's aftermath aggressively? Are we willing to pay for another 50,000 FEMA staffers who hang out between disasters? Hey, maybe we could cross-train them with the TSA!

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This would have been very, very bad in any event -- think of the thousands of people who are now homeless. Good grief, what are the thousands of people who escaped doing? Where are they sleeping? But so much more disheartening -- complete inability of the bureaucracy to even begin to offer some solace to most prominent concentrations of tragedy. The convention center, for example. I didn't see people there beating up or shooting reporters. I saw a bunch of overheated, tired, poor people screaming "Help!"

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Check out this interview

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I again feel there is decency left to discuss this in human terms and leave politics out

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Check out this interview that WWL did with Mayor Nagin yesterday which is AMAZING:

MP3

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Edit: And if CNN really think that's an "expletive-laced" interview, they need to get out more.

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Now Nagin I'll listen to.

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• on coffee, which relies on the crippled port of New Orleans and its vast coffee warehouses
  
• Import prices for steel and tropical fruit, much of which flowed through Louisiana's ports, are also likely to spike
  
• oysters, four in 10 of which come from the waters off Louisiana
  
• price spikes for asphalt, roofing materials, plastic pipe, insulation, metals and concrete
  
• grain prices fell on word that harvests cannot be sent by barge down the Mississippi River for export
  
• Delivery firms such as DHL, United Parcel Service and Federal Express informed customers yesterday they would add surcharges of between 5 and 15 percent
  
• The premium that refiners charge to turn oil into jet fuel has shot from $3 a barrel at the beginning of the year to $25, pushing the effective price of a barrel of oil to around $95 for the already ailing airlines
  
• Airlines and attendant businesses such as car rental companies employ 10 million, and account for 8 percent of the U.S economy
  
• More than half the chemical industry's capacity to make alpha olefins -- a key ingredient in shampoo -- is in Louisiana
  
• Nearly half of the ethylene glycol -- used to make polyester -- comes from the region
  
• Roughly 12 billion pounds a year of ethylene capacity, about 20 percent of the nation's total, is shut down or operating at very reduced rates
  
• Dow Chemical Co. in Midland, Mich., said that with a key plant in St. Charles, La., still closed, the firm has now run out of propylene oxide, used in products from sportswear to detergents to engine coolants. The plant will remain shuttered for weeks

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The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

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CNN is really hammering how f'ed up the response has been and asking good questions.... at least Cafferty is. "What role did race and class play in the Crisis"? I've been asking this myself.... and i say A LOT.

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Who's going do the first "Nagin for President" T-shirts?

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Check out this interview that WWL did with Mayor Nagin yesterday which is AMAZING:

MP3

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I'm not surprised that this is turning into a racial issue!

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Instead of crying about race why don't people ask why those who are stranded why they stayed?

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Ok, let's play a little game. Imagine you are poor. Not just low on money and can't make it to the ATM today, but actually dirt poor. You have a [censored] minimum-wage job with which you have a hard time making ends meet from day-to-day, and are not always sure you will be able to afford a place to stay or to eat tomorrow. You have no car because cars cost a lot of money, no extra money to pay for a hotel someplace, no out-of-town family to stay with. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it.

Ok, now they order you to evacuate. You have 50 bucks in your pocket. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out? Where are you going to stay? What the hell are you going to do. Let's hear your options.

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There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

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What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

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Ok, let's play a little game. Imagine you are poor. Not just low on money and can't make it to the ATM today, but actually dirt poor. You have a shitty minimum-wage job with which you have a hard time making ends meet from day-to-day, and are not always sure you will be able to afford a place to stay or to eat tomorrow. You have no car because cars cost a lot of money, no extra money to pay for a hotel someplace, no out-of-town family to stay with. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it.

Ok, now they order you to evacuate. You have 50 bucks in your pocket. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out? Where are you going to stay? What the hell are you going to do? Let's hear your options.

Hey, I didn't say it was a fun game.

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if this happened in Idaho, would armed gangs be looting, murdering, raping, and attacking search and rescue teams?

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Face it, this anarchy wouldn't happen in a "red" county

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Yeah, I saw that, but doesn't utwente have some sort of open access?

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Is Paul Dutch?

Good question. There are many dutch Pauls here

But I'm afraid I'm not your guy.

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Yeah, I saw that, but doesn't utwente have some sort of open access?

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Hmm, I've never heard of this type of thing happening in Idaho. Perhaps they do have militias - I don't know - but I'm not aware of any disasters, riots, or eruptions of anarchy.

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Okay. Let's assume you're being honest. First off, I think a comparison of guns in red areas versus guns in blue areas would be interesting. Second, despite the fact that NO may well be a very blue area, that still means that you have at least 25% conservatives there, and that's probably a very low estimate. Third, most of the po-ass folks I know are very conservative. They don't seem to follow that that's probably pretty hypocritical to stupid, but them's the facts. Fourth, the reason these people are poor is because they were born poor, not because they chose to become poor or stay poor. When you're in a hole, it's pretty hard to get yourself out of it. It's even harder when you've never seen above it.

Basically, your argument is spurious and offensive. Pretty much the definition of the characteristics of a troll. Odd how trolls always claim they don't know what trolls are.

That said, you do have points about why certain things weren't done by NO itself before the fact. But those arguments, while intellectually important, aren't really relevant now. No more than why NO was built in a hole in the first place. The only people that can help at this point are people from elsewhere, and they're just not getting the job done. It's better to prevent fires than to fight them, but just because they weren't prevented doesn't mean you should ignore them when they burn, even if your only reason is to prevent damage to the rest.

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Why didn't mayor Nagin deploy these buses when the mandatory evacuation was ordered?

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One thing the president could do is allow the dutch teams of dyke technicians to provide their support. I can understand turning down cash from other nations, but turning down technical assistance from the world's best dyke engineers doesn't seem to be wise.

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What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state.

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And it's strange that those that are supported by the government here are 'haves', but the people on welfare there are still dirt poor?

See? The solution is more of welfare state, not less...

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It seems that the entire black population has become dependant on the government in america?

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I really don't see how this inevitable disaster can be blamed on the president when the problem has been known for decades.

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My point about red and blue is that the 'have-nots' are usually very reliant on the state, which is a staple of the 'blue' side.

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One thing the president could do is allow the dutch teams of dyke technicians to provide their support. I can understand turning down cash from other nations, but turning down technical assistance from the world's best dyke engineers doesn't seem to be wise.

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being used by the gangs ruling the streets of N.O. were looted from gun stores?

Phfffft, not likely.

Last year, university researchers conducted an experiment in which police fired 700 blank rounds in a New Orleans neighborhood in a single afternoon. No one called to report the gunfire.

From the same article above:

The city’s murder rate is still far lower than a decade ago, when New Orleans was the country’s murder capital. But in recent years, the city’s homicide rate has climbed again to nearly 10 times the national average.

I have a friend in the construction business (correction: was in the construction business ). The first 3 months of each year he was booked solid patching roofs because the custom is to shoot guns in the air on New Year's Eve.

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One New Orleans "tradition" which has been getting unwanted attention is the shooting of guns into the air for midnight. Despite the fact that authorities have been cracking down hard on the offenders, it still remains a problem – 5 people were hit on New Year's Eve 2001. Even the mayor himself once said, "I would take cover at midnight myself, and I know that's not possible for everyone to do in the French Quarter because of the density of people there... There are risks to being outside. I cannot guarantee anyone's safety."

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Possible apologies to Brad here, but I agree with everything you say. And you can look to my sig to where I think all bucks stop. That doesn't mean blame for SELA can't be laid at the doorstep of previous administrations. Right now, though, somebody else has the ball.

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I only brought up how NO could have done more because others brought up how the federal government could have done more.

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Who's going do the first "Nagin for President" T-shirts?

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Here's a Washington Post article about some of the very real consquences of Katrina beyond the obvious.

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We live in a complicated interconnected world, and our goverment needs to understand it and behave in a way that acknowledges it. The current administration doesn't, isn't, and refuses to acknowledge facts. They are not "reality-based"

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*Remember that gem from a quotation in an October 17 New York Times article by Ron Suskind quoting an unnamed aide to the (current) President.

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The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.

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Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

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Here's streaming audio of the louisiana police and national guard radio traffic. http://ev1helps.net:8080/lspbtr

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[Bush is] probably just away from the cameras

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I don't see why some people always try to villify those in power in situations like this. I might not like some things Bush does, but I can't see how he is responsible for this natural disaster. You should cut the man some slack, he is your president. You say it appears he's doing nothing, but he's probably just away from the cameras, getting down to business, where as the mayor of New Orleans has time to do interviews to rant about the Iraq war, which is just useless in a crisis like this. I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want to rescue the survivors, it's just a huge undertaking. A huge city is underwater, in a devasted region, supplies are short (even for the rescuers), and to make matters worse armed gangs are shooting at police, helicopters, and boats.
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Billy

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I might not like some things Bush does, but I can't see how he is responsible for this natural disaster.

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You should cut the man some slack, he is your president.

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I think some people just don't like George Bush, and anything bad that happens in the world gives them an opportunity to somehow lay the blame on him.

Billy

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You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

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the welfare and criminal class

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blackest and poorest Detroit neighborhood

Of course, Blacks are poor by choice, right? Their ancestors also came to America by choice.

BTW, when showing us web sources explaining the true roots of this, you forgot to mention that all this mess is doing of DNC, ACLU and UN!

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BTW, when showing us web sources explaining the true roots of this, you forgot to mention that all this mess is doing of DNC, ACLU and UN!

I thought it was the doing of Bush?

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Hey guys, I'm alive.

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One part of the culture of New Orleans was crime, murder, and the life of a thug. The vast majority (not all) of the people who stayed behind were the welfare and criminal class whose role models were Tupac, C-Murder, and other thugs.

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It is good to hear you are okay for now. Hang in there!

Edit: Looking at the map / pin system from the other thread, Kenner looks like it escaped most if not all of the flooding, but has a bit of wind damage.

Edit 2: Wow. Knowing Lectric's name from his public BBS user information, I was able to internet search, got a possible address, found out where it was on Google Maps and cross referenced it with the Katrina Map. The good news is that there does not look like there was any flooding in this area, except for isolated reports (less than one inch, already gone) the next street over. There were a few people asking for information, but the reports seemed to show all was mostly dry. The bad news is that this is really, really scary from a Big Brother paranoia front...

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Hey guys, I'm alive. I actually live in Kenner, outside of NO. I am CURRENTLY living in my office as my house is still flooded. Working as part of the government through this lends a different perspective of what's going on.

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For the record, then National Guard WAS deployed before the storm hit. I have become friends with our contingent here as is bound to happen to people when they are living under these conditions. Unfortunately, the NG was intended to be here on a humanitarian effort only. They were not planning on needing ANYTHING like they need now. Despite what is being reported, I have seen massive federal aid coming in. For a long while it was more than our airport could handle. Our government is not holding out on us, it as just caught ith its pants down.

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Also, communications here are a complete nightmare. We cannot make phone calls out from here. We can only recieve some phone calls. This will vastly slow response time.
One thing I am grateful for is that I have no access to TV. I don't think I could handle atching hat is going on. 2 police officers here commited suicide last night as a result of the stress. I know of 5 other people personally who did the same because they couldn't take it.

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Yesterday I was assigned to escort our media person to the media trucks. I had to see first hand the destruction in Orleans Parish. The pictures you are seeing are still likely current. As of last night, the water is still past the rooflines of all the homes I saw. I also had to go to the airport. I can't describe the suffering I've seen. Ya'll, please, we need your support. Forget about placing blame for now, please. We need your efforts to be used in a better manner. Understand, we have FEMA and police and firefighters being fired upon while they're trying to help save people. I just recieved word that the police chief of NO committed suicide. Still a rumor at this point, but unfortunately a believeable one.

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As to the numbers of people dying, the initial estimates are ranging from 15-20 thousand, but that number will surely rise as more people are found trapped in their attics and drowned and further still from the disease that is sure to come.

I'm trying but words fail to describe what horror I'm being witness to. My access is very spotty, but I'll try and give updates when I can.

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I have tried to figure out how to respond/help in my very limited terms. I have to say -- so shoot me -- that I wouldn't give a freaking *dime* to the Red Cross given their horrible track record over the past decade. So what is a secular humanist to do? Giving money to "faith-based" soup kitchens is not an option....

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EXCLUSIVE: BRITS' HELL INSIDE THE TERROR DOME
British students, Sarah Yorston, Jane Wheeldon, Jamie Trout, Marisa Haigh
TERRIFIED British students tell of dead bodies, rape, crack, gunshots, filth and a sickening stench filling the thick air.
From Ryan Parry, Us Correspondent, Inside The New Orleans Superdome

BRITISH students told yesterday how they stepped out of the horror of Hurricane Katrina into the hell of their Superdome "shelter".

A place of refuge became a terrifying trap, where knives and guns, crack cocaine use, threats of violence and racial abuse were rife.

Jamie Trout, 22, who kept a record of his four days there, said: "It was like something out of Lord of the Flies - one minute everything is calm and civil, the next it descends into chaos."

In one diary entry, he said: "A man has been arrested for raping a seven-year-old in the toilet, this place is hell, I feel sick. The smell is horrendous, there are toilets overflowing and people everywhere."

As the evacuation of the 70,000- capacity arena continued yesterday, the swamped city of New Orleans descended into near barbarism.

The looting and carjacking of recent days showed no sign of slowing. Gunfire was aimed at police and helicopters attempting to ferry the sick from hospitals, accompanied by shouts of: "You better come get my family."

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Ten thousand National Guardsmen were sent in from across the US to the flood-ravaged Gulf coast.

At least seven bodies lay unclaimed in the streets around the New Orleans Convention Centre - one a woman in a wheelchair covered by a blanket.

Daniel Edwards, 47, pointed at her and said: "I don't treat my dog like that...I buried my dog."

Amid criticism of government inaction, he added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people.

"You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Thousands of storm refugees massed outside the convention building, waiting for buses that never came. They had no food, water or medicines.

The Rev Issac Clark, 68, said: "We are out here like pure animals. We don't have help."

In what may be America's worst natural disaster for a century, 80 per cent of a city of 500,000 people was under water up to 20ft deep. Thousands could be dead.

At the Superdome, at least 25,000 people were moved out yesterday as New Orleans Mayor Nagin vowed: "Come hell or high water we will evacuate people today, I'll march them out if I have to." Soldiers with M16 assault rifles and grenade launchers tried to control crowds desperate to get out.

At least one person died in the arms of a soldier. A National Guardsman was wounded in the leg by his own gun in a struggle with two men and a military helicopter was shot at while ferrying away a casualty.

Brit diary-writer Jamie had been coaching football to disabled children as part of the Camp America scheme.

Jamie, who was with two friends, said: "We were in Miami for three or four days when Katrina first hit.

"We rode that storm out and then decided to go to New Orleans. We didn't realise the storm was heading that way."

He said of his eventual Superdome refuge: "There was a lot of heat from the people in there, people shouting racial abuse about us being white.

"The army warned us to keep our bags close to us and to grip them tight."

Jamie, an economics student from Sunderland, said he saw crack cocaine being used in the filthy toilets, youngsters breaking into soft drink machines and men brawling. Urine and excrement spilled into corridors where they were sleeping.

At one point, up to 30 British students gathered in the dome were so terrified of attack when the power went down that they set up a makeshift security cordon.

Zoe Smith, 21, from Hull, said: "All us girls sat in the middle while the boys sat on the outside, with chairs as protection.

"We were absolutely terrified, the situation had descended into chaos, people were very hostile and the living conditions were horrendous.

"We had to wash with tiny bottles of water, the sink was blocked and full of gunk. Even when we offered to help with the cleaning, the locals gave us abuse."

Some students said they saw an 18-inch knife confiscated from one man and many others had guns and other weapons.

Marisa Haigh, 23, from Guildford, who is studying at Birmingham University, and Claire Watkins, 23, a student from Bradford, had arrived in New Orleans last Saturday after a trip across the US.

Claire said: "We went out drinking on Saturday night and had an awesome time.

"On Sunday we had hangovers and hadn't heard or read anything about the hurricane coming in. We only realised there was something wrong when we went out in the street and no one was around, everywhere was shut or boarded up."

They were in the Superdome when Katrina hit. Marisa said: "There was a series of almighty bangs when the roof went and a panel flew off.

"There was a woman screaming, 'We're gonna die, we're all gonna die'."

Eventually many of the students were moved to the nearby basketball arena, thanks to Sgt Garland Ogden, a full-timer with the National Guard.

Jane Wheeldon, 20, said: "He went against a lot of rules to get us moved."

Yesterday Texas was ready to house 50,000 flood refugees - 25,000 of them in the Houston Astrodome, 350 miles away. The rest will go to San Antonio.

Rescue in some areas was suspended as looters ran amok.

Coast Guard Lt Cmdr Cheri Ben-Iesan said at emergency HQ: "Hospitals are trying to evacuate. At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them, telling them, 'You better come get my family'. City leader Mitch Landrieu toured stricken areas and was besieged by rescued people begging him to pass information to their families.

His pocket was full of scraps of paper on which he had scribbled down their phone numbers.

He contacted a woman whose father had been saved and told her: "Your daddy's alive, and he said to tell you he loves you."

Landrieu added: "She just started crying. She said, 'I thought he was dead'."

In Britain, worried relatives of the Superdome students were told by the Mirror their loved ones were safe.

From details given to our reporters at the scene, we passed on messages to families nationwide.

Zoe Smith's mother Sharon said in Hull: "That's brilliant. It's been horrendous not knowing what on earth has happened to her. I have barely slept."

Fine art publisher Janet Murray, 55, from Frome, Somerset, whose daughter Hannah was stranded, said: "I had not heard anything, thanks so much for letting me know."

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I have tried to figure out how to respond/help in my very limited terms. I have to say -- so shoot me -- that I wouldn't give a freaking *dime* to the Red Cross given their horrible track record over the past decade. So what is a secular humanist to do? Giving money to "faith-based" soup kitchens is not an option....

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While I now reside in Europe, I grew up in the southern US, and I went to a predominantly (80-90%) black school in a poor neighborhood from 6th to 8th grade, and I saw more blatent racism there than I've seen anywhere else.

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Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but people colored other than white are capable of racism too.

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Oh, I would certainly never deny that fact. But when you spout stuff like "the entire black population has become dependant" and "the vast majority (not all) of the people who stayed behind were the welfare and criminal class" and imply that Darwinism means these people should die, well, congratulations, you are one too.

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Maybe Springer should ask "if this happened in Idaho, would armed gangs be looting, murdering, raping, and attacking search and rescue teams?" Face it, this anarchy wouldn't happen in a 'red' county, and Orleans parish looks to be solidly 'blue':
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My point about red and blue is that the 'have-nots' are usually very reliant on the state, which is a staple of the 'blue' side.

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Politicians and officials should be blamed for late action or inadequate planning, but you can't blame them for the anarchy in NO that has hampered the rescue. You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

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Slightly awkward wording perhaps, I might suggest using "classes" rather than class, just to emphasize potential differences and non-overlap between the welfare and criminal classes.

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.. I'm honest enough with myself to observe that there's something wrong in the black community. Personally, I think it's their lack of family structures ..

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.. and their thug-like role models.

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30 gard against 30000 refugees are NOT good odds.

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I don't understand why it's considered racist in the US these days to state facts like the majority of prison inmates are black, or the majority of black neighborhoods are poor, or that most of the refugees are black. Racism is a feeling of hatred, but these are facts.

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So your walking the thin line of stating statistics that may indeed be factual, and extrapolating from that into statements like "Personally, I think it's their lack of family structures and their thug-like role models." I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you in fact DON'T believe that your statement applies to all black people in the US.

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It's a struggle when it's something you experience more times than not. It's a tough topic in general. Ugh... I've had to fight racist thoughts my whole life based on experience and being around racist family members growing up, implanting things at a young age. Do you count yourself among those who have a strong distaste of blacks going back generations? Be honest.

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I just wish you had a bit more empathy for those affected by all this who aren't there by choice, and understanding that a majority of those left behind weren't looters, thugs, murderers, etc, but victims of them.

In the end, people are people are people. It serves no real purpose to separate everyone into color groups, because each community affects the other, they aren't worlds unto themselves. Those raping and pillaging were also Americans... does that really mean anything? Does it define us that they were a product of this country?

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children with no father around.

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In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

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Why are state and city officials not being painted with the same brush as Bush and FEMA?

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"I bet more people will heed the evactuation order then".

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I don't typically share in the political side of these discussion as that's how I feel about every politician I've ever encountered. Nagin, Blanco, Edwards, Roemer, Morial, Bush, Clinton...names change but lies and spin seems to be the only consistent things. n it would have made a difference?

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I just bought my ticket to New Baton Rouge this morning... one way. I'm headed home to see what I can do

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For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

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lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of...

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I'll try to document the trip as best I can if anyone is interested.

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Nagin issued a mandatory evacuation order on Sunday with a Cat 4 hurricane a day away. Every study that I've seen says it takes at least 72 hours to evacuate the 400,000+ residents of New Orleans.

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And I was thinking...when you're shoved into a stadium with 20000 odd people and a load of national guard, where do you find somewhere to do that without someone stepping in?

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[Michael Brown] has no prior emergency management experience prior to taking his current post

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Bush suspends minimum wage requirements so that the rebuilding effort can be done on the cheap (CNN Money)

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Maybe because he did this? ....

Did what? Played the G chord at the wrong fret?

(Sorry. Guitarists always look for that sort of thing. )

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But... will he get a medal?

You've been reading too much Fark

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Sorry. Guitarists always look for that sort of thing.

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...And that guitar was purchased with your tax dollars. Note the presidential seal?

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Maybe because he did this? ...

I'll one up you on the silly photo department...

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I'll one up you on the silly photo department...

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Some homes along Bush's route were marked "0 D 0 A," meaning searchers had found no people inside dead or alive.

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Did anyone else immediately think "carriage return, line feed"?

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I seem to remember an interview with him in which he stated that he specifically learned to play that barre chord that way when he was a kid just for that reason.

Okay, that's utterly hilarious. I had no idea.

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I also witnessed the waste and glut of money the Red Cross has at it's disposal

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Thanks Loren, we really do appreciate it.