Legacy device my arse

Posted by: pca

Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 19:07

So, I'm installing a shiny new system for a friend, a shuttle SN25P. Very flash video card, loads of ram, and two 250GB SATA drives in striped raid configuration for maximum speed. And there's the problem.

There is NO WAY, as far as I can tell, to install windows 2000 (that's what he wants, and before anyone says anything, XP is the same) on a bootable raid array without a real, old-fashioned, floppy drive plugged into the machine.

No, you can't use a USB floppy. It fools you into thinking you can, in that it will in the first stage locate and allow you to indicate which files will be used later, but after spending two hours formatting the raid drives it hangs trying to access a non-existant FD.

No, you can't use a CD, USB key, or any other 21st century storage medium.

No, it doesn't give any error AT ALL when it fails to read the files.

So I have to go into the loft, poke around for half an hour to find an old 3.5 inch drive, then set up a separate PSU on the bench because the cables in the machine don't reach, and I really don't want to take it to pieces yet again. And anyway, there aren't any spare outputs as the graphics card and cdrom have used them so there's no place for the 5 inch to 3.5 inch power adapter to be connected.

Then, of course, I have to screw around with the bios to turn back on the floppy drive controller I'd turned off to make the USB drive work

God, I hate windows.

Anyway, I needed to share that. Thanks for listening.

pca
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 19:09

You might be able to slipstream the drivers into a Windows install CD. I don't know if there are readily available tools to do that for Win2k, though. There definitely are for XP.
Posted by: Dignan

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 19:21

Hehe, well I'm very glad that when I ordered my girlfriend's father's new SN25p on Monday, I ordered a cheapo floppy drive to go with it.

...I think it got delivered to their house today...and it's raining outside...and they're not home...crap

I hope the UPS guy has a big plastic bag!
Posted by: Attack

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 19:24

Yeah all versions of Windows has this problem. Making a slipstream install with the latest service pack and drivers needed for install is the only way around this when you don't want to find a floppy drive.


I've heard that the Visita beta's have this fixed.
Posted by: TigerJimmy

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 19:55

I am constantly amazed that some Fortune 500 companies actually use this operating system [sic] for business operations applications like SAP? These people are insane. How did they ever rise to positions where they have the authority to make these outrageous decisions, and why aren't they fired immediately when they make them?

Its extremely frightening to think that personal account data may (and probably is) be stored on these systems.

99.99% of the problems of the internet are directly caused by the horrific Microsoft software, etc., but I digress...
Posted by: andym

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 20:24

I had this problem a while back (SATA controller with no legacy IDE emulation) and someone on the forum recommended nLite. Really simple, point and click and it worked a treat.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Legacy device my arse - 11/01/2006 20:41

Oh, nLite does support Win2k. Cool.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 00:29

Quote:
99.99% of the problems of the internet are directly caused by the horrific Microsoft software, etc., but I digress...


That's only because the vast majority of personal computers are running Windows. I'm sure if Linux or Apple had a monopoly on 90% of the desktops out there then they'd hold the title as security hole king.
Posted by: mlord

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 01:44

Absolutely.

Except the sum total of all security issues would be much smaller in such a universe.

Only one major "OS" family insists on building zillions of backdoors into their core s/w..
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 02:10

But the average Windows user isnīt security conscience such as applying updates and using an account other than administrator. The average Linux user is very technical and as a result their machines (including ones running Windows) are pretty secure. So I think if Linux was mainstream, non-geeks would still have vulnerable systems.

Iīm not saying Windows is better security wise, but I think the difference is overstated.
Posted by: genixia

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 05:46

Is isn't. Really.

Linux and *BSD systems are fairly secure by design. They default to security over user-friendliness. Sure, there are holes in applications and daemons that are run. But anything public facing is usually run as a role user that doesn't have permissions to trash the whole system.

Windows has always chosen 'ease of use' over security as a design model. And trying to run as an unpriviledged user in windows seems to be an exercise in frustration.
Posted by: drakino

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 08:56

Quote:
That's only because the vast majority of personal computers are running Windows. I'm sure if Linux or Apple had a monopoly on 90% of the desktops out there then they'd hold the title as security hole king.


I highly doubt this. In the world of viruses today, the goal isn't system destruction, it's bot nets and spam relays. What's more valuable for these types of things, a Windows desktop on some sort of home broadband, or a server running Linux sitting in a datacenter with a very fast connection and likely at least 2-4x the memory of the desktop? I'd have to say the Linux box in the data center would be far more useful. And considering how many web servers exist out there on Apache and Linux (hint, Apache powers a good 60-70% of sites), there is plenty of targets.

So why don't the hackers go after these? Well, they do, but with much lower success rates due to the security in place, in most cases security out of the box.

Thus far the most devastating viruses out there in recent years have managed to use vulnerabilities in Microsoft server products, specifically IIS and SQL. Some specific worms I can think of are Code Red, and SQL Slammer, both shutting down networks at many major companies and impacting even parts of the Internet. The last time a Unix worm had a massive impact was long before most of us used the internet. Microsoft simply lacks the security experience the miscellaneous Unix variants have. However their mistakes effect many more people.

Linux and OS X both have their roots deep in the Unix world, and as such carry much better security by default. Security that wouldn't change if they surged to 90% of the market.
Posted by: andy

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 10:02

Quote:

Linux and OS X both have their roots deep in the Unix world, and as such carry much better security by default. Security that wouldn't change if they surged to 90% of the market.


True. However, how many of the Windows users who happily click "yes, please install my dodgy ActiveX control" would also merrily type in their admin password when asked under OS X when downloading the latest shinny bit of crap with embedded spyware or other nasties ?

The security in OS X is great, but I still think that it wouldn't work nearly so well if it had the market share of Windows. Unfortunately users are very good and defeating even the best security systems put in place to protect them
Posted by: drakino

Re: Legacy device my arse - 12/01/2006 11:22

Quote:
True. However, how many of the Windows users who happily click "yes, please install my dodgy ActiveX control" would also merrily type in their admin password when asked under OS X when downloading the latest shinny bit of crap with embedded spyware or other nasties ?


Good point. Though the problems would still be less I believe. How many recent worms/viruses in Windows actually prompt the user for anything? An out of the box Windows machine plugged right into a broadband connection gets hosed in minutes. Browsing a web site with an image can do tons of damage. I consider myself very knowledgeable when it comes to computers. And I appreciate the fact that I know the same type of issues will likely not happen to my personal Macs out of the box. I know what I am doing with Windows, but still rely on an antivirus solution on my Wintendo just in case some new exploit gets used before a patch or warning. I also have to take special precautions to ensure when I format a hard disk to reload the OS, I've pulled the ethernet cable out at work. Where as tossing Linux on a lab box requires no such precaution.

I can educate people not to trust certain dialogs. For example, a relative uses an XP system to do minor web browsing and online poker. I showed him the antispyware and virus solutions and how to deal with them. In that time, he has had two warnings in the spyware side about something trying to install, but he blocked them. This relative really has no knowledge of computers beyond knowing how to find Freecell and type a URL. However even with what I taught them, there is still a chance I'll have to reload the box due to something nasty getting in on its own. Something I don't fear from another relative with an iBook.