Posted by: gbeer
Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 25/11/2006 19:40
What if auctions could be ended on a random time. Say anytime +/- 1/2 hour from the nominal close time?
Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 25/11/2006 19:46
The minus time wouldn't work. You might be left with auctions with no bids. Sniping is usually a problem for other buyers. As a seller, if you are selling something in demand, the price will go up regardless or last minute bids. In the end I don't care when the bids come in as long as it sells of a decent price.
As a buyer, I always snipe. Always. However, I always bid my maximum bid amount with the snipe. The same amount I'd have bid if it had been on day 1 or 2.
As a buyer, I always snipe. Always. However, I always bid my maximum bid amount with the snipe. The same amount I'd have bid if it had been on day 1 or 2.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 01:29
Oh, was that you? Sorry! 
just kidding
Ditto here. And if everyone else also does the same, then there's no reason to complain about the system, really.
Cheers
just kiddingQuote:
As a buyer, I always snipe. Always. However, I always bid my maximum bid amount with the snipe. The same amount I'd have bid if it had been on day 1 or 2.
Ditto here. And if everyone else also does the same, then there's no reason to complain about the system, really.
Cheers
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 07:52
Quote:
What if auctions could be ended on a random time. Say anytime +/- 1/2 hour from the nominal close time?
Now, who would ever have thought of such a wacky idea?
tanstaafl.
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 13:08
I do exactly the same - my one and only bid with 2 seconds to go. I see nothing wrong with it. If I bid with 10 days to go then someone will have 20 bids with £1 increments and go higher than they would bid normally. As a seller thats great but I'm not so happy as a bidder.
People wrongly assume eBay is a 'going going gone' auction whereas its really a 'sealed bid'-style auction.
People wrongly assume eBay is a 'going going gone' auction whereas its really a 'sealed bid'-style auction.
Posted by: rob
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 13:15
Sniping isn't a problem - it's a common sense and legal strategy for buyers to minimise pumping the price in drawn out bidding wars. I snipe every auction, winning about 50% of items I bid for. There's absolutely nothing stopping you sniping as well.
Rob
Rob
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 13:18
What I do object to is automatic sniping tools. I see that as sneaky. Good old fashioned hovering over the mouse button though, thats fun
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 15:54
Quote:
Sniping isn't a problem - it's a common sense and legal strategy for buyers to minimise pumping the price in drawn out bidding wars. I snipe every auction, winning about 50% of items I bid for. There's absolutely nothing stopping you sniping as well.
Rob
Actualy the proposal was more from the vewpoint of a seller.
As a buyer, I'm not inclined to camp out waiting for the auction to end.
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 16:01
Quote:Quote:
What if auctions could be ended on a random time. Say anytime +/- 1/2 hour from the nominal close time?
Now, who would ever have thought of such a wacky idea?
tanstaafl.
Not so wacky
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 16:04
Quote:
What I do object to is automatic sniping tools. I see that as sneaky. Good old fashioned hovering over the mouse button though, thats fun
Heh heh hea! A sniper objecting to being out sniped, that's rich.
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 17:06
Hmmm no... nothing rich about it. The 2 methods are totally different. What exactly is your problem with sniping? Why do you object to me making my one and only bid with a gfew seconds spare? Its a simple enough concept to grasp.
As I already explained, I have no problem with it. If you don't like it, stop using eBay. Simple. Your initial post is quite pointless IMO.
As I already explained, I have no problem with it. If you don't like it, stop using eBay. Simple. Your initial post is quite pointless IMO.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 20:21
Quote:
People wrongly assume eBay is a 'going going gone' auction whereas its really a 'sealed bid'-style auction.
I don't think it's quite that either. I think it's a combination, actually. In a sealed bid auction, don't you only get to bid once? I thought that a bunch of people enter their bid, and the highest wins. That's not how ebay works. You do essentially see rising bid amounts.
Mark me down as pro-sniping, but with no programs.
Posted by: AndrewT
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 26/11/2006 21:21
Quote:
I think it's a combination, actually. In a sealed bid auction, don't you only get to bid once?
I agree in that it's really a combination. It is the sniper's decision to avoid the bidding war and enter what is essentially a sealed bid.
Posted by: TigerJimmy
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 27/11/2006 01:08
Except the bidding is not sealed. In a sealed-bid auction, one would not know if they are the highest bidder. The fact that you have no information about other bids is what defines the nature of a sealed-bid system. Ebay is a "going, going, gone" style auction with a time limit.
Posted by: Neutrino
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 27/11/2006 03:11
I have no issues with snipping services. I use them. Not everyone has broadband. 
I, unfortunetly, live in an area were broadband is not available. It's available 700 feet from my house but not here! Even satellite internet is not a sure bet for bidding.
I, unfortunetly, live in an area were broadband is not available. It's available 700 feet from my house but not here! Even satellite internet is not a sure bet for bidding.
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 27/11/2006 05:43
Quote:
Except the bidding is not sealed. In a sealed-bid auction, one would not know if they are the highest bidder. The fact that you have no information about other bids is what defines the nature of a sealed-bid system. Ebay is a "going, going, gone" style auction with a time limit.
I don't think that is entirely the case.
On eBay, you do not know what the high bid is, you only know who made the bid. That is not particularly useful information. And in a bid sniping situation, you don't even get the chance to find out if you are the highest bidder until it is too late to do anything about it if you are not.
Sure, Joe Bidder is sitting there as high man on the totem pole with his $85 bid, but that only means he has out-bid the next highest bidder. His actual bid is most likely higher than that, possibly much higher than that. Thus the dangers of bid sniping. You think you're safe bidding $100 with 15 seconds to go, only to find out (too late) that Joe's bid was higher than you expected.
tanstaafl.
Posted by: peter
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 27/11/2006 07:30
Quote:
And in a bid sniping situation, you don't even get the chance to find out if you are the highest bidder until it is too late to do anything about it if you are not.
That's a feature, not a bug. If you always snipe with the amount you're actually willing to pay, you win the item in all cases where you can afford it, and lose it in all cases where you can't. That's surely perfect for the buyer -- how could any other strategy, on Ebay's part or yours, do better?
Quote:
Sure, Joe Bidder is sitting there as high man on the totem pole with his $85 bid, but that only means he has out-bid the next highest bidder. His actual bid is most likely higher than that, possibly much higher than that. Thus the dangers of bid sniping. You think you're safe bidding $100 with 15 seconds to go, only to find out (too late) that Joe's bid was higher than you expected.
Why did you bid $100? If it's because that's all you're willing to pay, you don't want to win if Joe's bid is higher. If it's less than you're willing to pay, you aren't genuinely attempting to buy the item.
Even if you're talking about the emotional, as opposed to purely financial, cost of buying on Ebay, by sniping you're on tenterhooks for maybe a minute, rather than for several days -- much less emotionally wearing.
Sniping, even automatic sniping, is not a problem and should not be "dealt with". I'd never bid for anything on Ebay if I couldn't snipe.
Peter
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 28/11/2006 00:08
That's a feature, not a bug.
Oh, absolutely. I am not faulting eBay's procedures in any way.
I was just pointing out to TigerJimmy that it really is closer to being a blind auction than a "going going gone" type of auction.
I agree completely with everything you said, and only offer my "anti-sniping" suggestion as the simplest method to implement it should anybody at eBay be so inclined to do it. I would not be in favor of their doing so.
tanstaafl.
Oh, absolutely. I am not faulting eBay's procedures in any way.
I was just pointing out to TigerJimmy that it really is closer to being a blind auction than a "going going gone" type of auction.
I agree completely with everything you said, and only offer my "anti-sniping" suggestion as the simplest method to implement it should anybody at eBay be so inclined to do it. I would not be in favor of their doing so.
tanstaafl.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers? - 29/11/2006 14:56
The problem with the eBay model is the weird combination of transparency and opacity added to idiot users.
Basically, the problem comes when you bid your maximum amount early in the auction, then, later, some idiot comes by and submits a bid, sees he's not winning, submits another, still not winning, submits another, ad nauseum. This drives up the selling price. But you say "this is no different than if he'd just bid that maximum amount to begin with", but you're forgetting the fact that he's an idiot who will bid more than he wants to pay just to win. If there was no feedback until the auction was over, or if you could see everyone's max bid, this problem wouldn't happen. (The latter would cause other problems, though, which would be similar and worse.)
This is the reason that people snipe. If you submit your bid at the last second, no one has the opportunity to creep up on you. Which turns eBay's system into a sealed-bid auction. Which makes you wonder why they don't just make it sealed bid anyway. Other than the fact that their system plus those idiot users (combined with the non-idiots who haven't figured all this out yet) raises selling prices.
Basically, the problem comes when you bid your maximum amount early in the auction, then, later, some idiot comes by and submits a bid, sees he's not winning, submits another, still not winning, submits another, ad nauseum. This drives up the selling price. But you say "this is no different than if he'd just bid that maximum amount to begin with", but you're forgetting the fact that he's an idiot who will bid more than he wants to pay just to win. If there was no feedback until the auction was over, or if you could see everyone's max bid, this problem wouldn't happen. (The latter would cause other problems, though, which would be similar and worse.)
This is the reason that people snipe. If you submit your bid at the last second, no one has the opportunity to creep up on you. Which turns eBay's system into a sealed-bid auction. Which makes you wonder why they don't just make it sealed bid anyway. Other than the fact that their system plus those idiot users (combined with the non-idiots who haven't figured all this out yet) raises selling prices.