Tivo's great, but....

Tivo is starting to make me wonder. I'm not sure if they know what they're doing anymore.

They've released their series 2 now, and it's pretty plain to see that if you currently own a Tivo, there's no point in upgrading. You'll pay $400 and all you'll get is twice the standard recording time (unhacked), and a couple USB ports. Granted, those ports are intriguing, but I haven't seen them say what they plan for them. All I've seen are mentions of peripherals due out next winter! That doesn't make any sense to me. I suppose they're releasing the new product now, as to have them out there when the peripherals become available, but they should give us some idea as to what those will be. Without that, I have absolutely no reason to shell out another 400 bucks.

Also, did anyone else here get a stupid little letter in the mail from Tivo? "...we've enclosed a small gift as a token of our appreciation..." Yeah, they enclosed a sticker. That would be okay if it weren't intended as a window decal. Where the hell am I going to put this? On the window of my house? That's like the opposite of an alarm system decal. And it's much too huge and ugly to put on my car, or anywhere else. Great marketing idea, Tivo. I think an empeg sticker is fine because crooks don't know what it is from the outside. A lot of people know what Tivo is.

Ahh, sorry about all this. I'm sick today and I guess I'm just irritable

It's OK, you can slag off Tivo as much as you like!

Rob

If those USB ports are master ports then I guess you could probably connect a USB HD to it and archive off your programmes. And it would also mean that you don't need to add the TiVoNET board to get ethernet. This is pure speculation since I haven't seen a series 2 TiVo.

I wouldn't personally pay the extra $400 though

I haven't received a sticker but then again I'm in the UK.

- Trevor

It's OK, you can slag off Tivo as much as you like!

Man, I love that phrase - "Slag off". Could I become an honorary Brit 3 or 4 weeks a year so I can turn phrases like that?? (Hmmm. What do I have up my sleeve that would get me a Gong?)

It was bit of a coin toss for me when I got a Tivo SA (over a Replay). I certainly would have liked the commercial skip feature of the Replay. I will honestly say, though, that the drawn-out, sordid spectacle of the U.S. (Digital River) eStore made me wonder whether SonicBLUE was up to the task of managing their business and delivering products to customers on a continuing basis (No reflection on Youse Guys in Cambridge). That was one factor. Another, more important factor that tilted me to Tivo, though, was the "installed base" of Tivo hacks, engendered in part by the more accessible Linux underpinnings (much as you see with 3rd-party activity here).

I wonder. What do you see as the opportunities for third-party hack activity in the Replay world given the current (less familiar) OS underpinnings? Or is this question a dead-end? Have you perhaps been tasked to completely rewrite Replay???

To the original point (the sickbed grouse!) I'll say that I saw the promotion (and got my Tivo sticker in the mail) and that I have no interest in upgrading (my tivonet is on the way!). OTOH, I'm not going to give Tivo grief for adding improvements to the product and promoting it. I would recommend (and already have recommended) Tivo to some friends, especially a few friends who also travel for work and have a hard time connecting with the small amount of TV that they'd like to watch.

Yeah, they enclosed a sticker. That would be okay if it weren't intended as a window decal. Where the hell am I going to put this?

I put mine on the glass of my stereo cabinet. Check it out.

Cool, I like the look. I think that's a good idea and a lot of people on the Tivo board have done that too. I don't have a cabinet but I would do that if I did.

I was just amazed at one guy who said he put one on all three of his cars! Unless he has a three car garage, people are gonna see that from the street. Obviously, and we've seen evidence on this board, there are still crooks out there today and a nice $300 Tivo would fit nicely in their trunk.

If the Gen 2 Replay is anything like the first gen, I doubt you see near the hacks for it that Tivo has.

I own a DTivo and a 1st gen Replay and personally, I prefer the Tivo. Funny thing is that this isn't my first Tivo. I bought one when they originally came out and kept it 2 days and took it back. I guess the dual tuners is what sold me. I had my 1st gen Replay for over a year before I bought the DTivo and I really didn't think I was going to like it when I got it. I had bought my dad one for Xmas and played with it some and decided the dual tuners would be worth slumming down to a Tivo again.

I almost bought a Replay 4000. They have hacks for that unit which allow you to offload video over your network and there is a single drive hack for it as well. The two drive hack MAY be done, I haven't really been keeping up. If the 4000 is anything like the 1st gen, I doubt we see any OS hacks anytime soon.

Hey if you(or anyone else here) don't want the Decal, I'll take it - I'll even PayPal you the money for postage to cover the costs of sending it to me here in New Zealand. Drop me a PM and I'll give you my postal address.

I have 2 Tivos (both hacked to work on PAL TV - ones a 80GB unit, the other a 30Gb unit) and no-one here knows what a Tivo is so when I stick it somewhere where the public can see it, very few will know what its about - let alone come looking for my Tivo. And in any case, if they steal my tivo I can buy replacements on Ebay for less than I can buy Empegs these days.

I think the Tivo guys kinda cool (so does my wife) so I'll find him a good home... somewhere, maybe next to the Empeg sticker...

I tell you neither I (nor my wife - now) would not be without a Tivo now and we don't even have the Guide service.

Why 2 Tivos you may ask?
Well ones never enough is it, like Empegs really, you need one wherever you are and therefore you need more than 1.

Hey what’s the manufacture/model of that stereo cabinet? It looks like it would match my TV!

Thanks,
Tom

The one thing that really bugs me about the series 2 TiVo is their deal with Real Networks. As if the privacy concerns weren't bad enough, they go and make a deal with one of the worst companies when it comes to the users' privacy. This is the main reason I probably won't be upgrading to a series 2 anytime soon.

Could I become an honorary Brit 3 or 4 weeks a year

Alright then guv'nor.

the drawn-out, sordid spectacle of the U.S. (Digital River) eStore

They have nothing to do with Replay orders - it all goes through Sensory Science:

https://www.sensoryscience.com/replay/

Sensory have an extremely efficient sales operation, both online and retail.

What do you see as the opportunities for third-party hack activity in the Replay world given the current (less familiar) OS underpinnings

It's less likely to get hacks while it runs VxWorks. But then, a lot of the stuff that gets hacked into Tivos is there as standard in the RTV4000. Obviously I can't discuss any future plans for the architecture.

Rob

It's a Tech Craft TFR500 that cost $250 from Crutchfield. It's color is meant to match Wega-like TVs. It matches my Panasonic rear projection pretty well also.

He Rob, do you kniow when Replay will be sold in France and Europe if ever ?

Sorry, I have no idea.

Rob

Sensory have an extremely efficient sales operation, both online and retail.

That's good! It wasn't an issue of being nervous about whether I would actually *get* a Replay if I ordered it. The US eStore experience just gave me more of a general concern about whether SB had its business under control. ( What was I thinking? They're smart enough to employ you, eh?!?!) Anyhow, that was a secondary issue

It's less likely to get hacks while it runs VxWorks.

I won't read too much into that, but I will file this sentence away!

But then, a lot of the stuff that gets hacked into Tivos is there as standard in the RTV4000.

True. (But what fun is it if I can't void the warranty?!)

Obviously I can't discuss any future plans for the architecture.

Will follow with interest. Thanks!

Ah yes VxWorks. What a Pain in the arse!

Runs interstellar rovers and Cray MPNs.
Who needs programming docs? hehehe

Ed

Thanks. I was planning on getting a Elite EL-501, but I like the tech craft better. I have a Panasonic 36HX40 and it looks like it will match as well. Plus it's 47-1/2" which is the exact height I need!

Tom

Am I the only one thinking I am 99% of the way there with buying a $60 PCI TV tuner card from ATI? The programing guide is downloaded regularly and I just right-click the programme on the grid 'Save' and it gets taped. Its already an .mp2 on my hard-drive so down-coding to DIVX and then archiving or turning into VideoCD is simple.

I know its not nearby my TV set, but I could pipe the audio and video into the next room easily enough. And no, I don't have a remote control for it, but...hard to beat the price, and the storage is truly unlimited.

Hey is there a program that comes with the ATI tuner card that does this?

-Tom

``You mean the empeg costs $1200? I can do the same thing building my own parts for a lot less than that!'' Sound familiar?

I know some people who are using Showshifter. It's $50 though I think.

- Trevor

I hate to tell you, but there's no comparison. Don't get me wrong, that rant was not against the Tivo player at all! It was more of a rant against a small little thing the company was doing.

I have an ATI AIW Radeon (not 8500), and I think it's a fantastic card. For a while (last year before I got Tivo) I tried using its Tivo-like features to record some shows. I wasn't too pleased with the outcome and the program that came with it was absolutely terrible (something about it not receiving program info from my area and not letting me change my area's info or something).

Tivo has much more features than you see in the commercials. The power with which you can record our programs is incredible.

Lastly, the advantage you hae with Tivo which everyone who owns an empeg knows, is UI. The user interface of the Tivo has to be the best I've ever seen. This is extremely important for a device as potentially complicated as this. As a result, many of our parents own Tivos and love them

Get a Tivo!

Number6, I don't think you want it anyway. It seems Tivo had another blunder. They mailed out all the stickers but folded the newsletter around it with the ink side facing in. Almost everyone got ink on their decals.

I have an AIW Radeon as well and came to essentially the same conclusions WRT software and "VCR+" -- figured I'd get the Tivo for the next 4-5 years and then check to see how things are looking.

I would like to still use the AIW VCR function to cap some stuff direct to PC (say when the Tivo is busy) and I'll probably keep using it occasionally. I'd never give one to my aunt, though!

FWIW, I think the newer AIW 8500 comes with an infrared remote. [edit: I looked. The remote with the 8500 model I looked at was not IR, but RF]

What I want to know is.. Is that a UPS in that cabinet? I would think that would be a bad idea. I.E. introducing all kinds of throughput limiters on your amps. MUUUCH better to go with a Richard Gray's Power Company. http://www.audiolinesource.com . Of course, the SMALL one of those is around $750 US.

Yes, I have a UPS in the cabinet. Only things plugged in are the TV and DirecTiVo. Its only purpose is for bare bones blackout TV viewing, Not surge protection. In fact, I have nothing installed for surge protection.

Yeouch.... a little $20 Spike bar would be a worthy investment then...

Problem I have with using the ATI stuff like that is lack of satelite support. I refuse to go back to normal cable, so the ATI All In Wonder card I own only sees it's SVideo and RCA inputs used. Maybe once Dish and DirecTV merge and make one standard, we will see decent PC satelite cards... (Gateway was so close to having Dish Network compatible Destination computers, but something fell through somewhere).

They mailed out all the stickers but folded the newsletter around it with the ink side facing in. Almost everyone got ink on their decals.

When did y'all get these stickers? I've been part of the TiVolution for over a year and never got a thing (except pure enjoyment) from TiVo. Though I did get a message about a survey online that, when completed, told me my TiVo plush doll is on the way.
Anyone get selected for the next round of beta for DirecTiVo? Me neither.

Though I did get a message about a survey online that, when completed, told me my TiVo plush doll is on the way.

I got that too. I'm still waiting for my damn doll tho. And my decal is full of ink.

Am I the only one thinking I am 99% of the way there with buying a $60 PCI TV tuner card from ATI?

99%? You're not even in the same area code.

You have to get away from the VCR, linear application mode of thought when it comes to TiVo.

You don't tell TiVo to record this program or that program at a certain time. Well, you do at the very beginning, but after that TiVo figures out what you like (movies, Sci-Fi, action/adventure, comedy, sports, whatever) and it does the rest automatically. The latest TiVo software even has a feature where you can see all the programs that it wanted to record for you but couldn't, due to scheduling conflicts or other reasons. ("Someone in your household deleted this item from the To-Do list 2/7/02 4:45 pm", or "TiVo will not record this program because a higher priority program "Scientific American Frontiers" will be recorded instead")

It is so nice to press the "List" button on the remote and see 30 hours of programming I can choose from -- highlight any of the programs and a single button press gives me a synopsis of the program. Get half an hour into it, decide to watch something else for a while, and when I come back, a single button press resumes right where I left off.

TiVo is a lot like the empeg player -- no amount of describing it will convince you. You won't "get it" until you have played around with one for a day or so -- and then you will be amazed that you somehow had managed to get along without one. You will no longer watch television -- you will only watch TiVo.

Somebody later on in this thread mentions the TiVo's UI. I have said over and over to anybody who will listen that TiVo's User Interface is the best I have ever seen for a consumer electronics product.

The $9.95 a month that my TiVo subscription costs me is probably the best spent money that I pay every month in terms of bang for the buck.

tanstaafl.