Depression and Mental Illness

I just didn't want to interrupt the other thread with this debate, and seeing as it will most likely go on for a bit longer, I am making a new thread. Here is what's been said:



posted by wfaulk:
"And [censored] you, for not having the strength in your heart to pull through. I've had doubts, I have failed, I've [censored] up, I've had plans, doesn't mean I should take my life with my own hands."

I know these are not your words, but they piss me off nonetheless. I'm not familiar with Staind any more than to know I have no real interest in listening to them, and this just galvanizes that point.

Whoever wrote those lyrics obviously has never dealt with depression. Maybe they've experienced sad points in their life that made them depressed, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about full-on medical depression. Kurt Cobain was obviously a manic depressive; you can tell just by how he moved and acted. Manic depressives don't really have the option of ``pulling through''. It doesn't end for any good reason. It just ends. And sometimes it doesn't.

Kurt should have been on anti-depressives. But if he had, he would never have made that music. It's a trade off. You can feel like [censored] for no reason and be talented, or you can take the drugs and be as normal and untalented as everyone else.

As a friend of mine once put it, when you start talking about depression, all of a sudden everyone becomes a Christian Scientist. ``Just get over it.'' It just doesn't work that way.

And I speak from experience. My father was manic depressive my whole life. My wife is clinically depressive. So is my best friend. They are all on drugs. I am, too, but I'm not bad enough that I need to take anything. Also, I'm scared of it. I know how much it changes you, and I'm not going to do it until I absolutely need it. Hopefully, I'll still have enough sense about me (or someone else will) to make sure it happens.

Kurt was too far gone and obviously didn't have anyone. I don't know about Layne.

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posted by Yz33d:
It's really just all in your head. You gotta take control and not let the demons mess with your mind

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posted by tfabris:
I hope you meant that as a joke. Bitt is right about depression. And many of the same things that can be said for clinical depression can also be said about addiction. In fact, those two often go hand in hand, as the genes which give you a tendency toward depression will also give you a tendency towards uncontrollable addictions. Only recently are the mechanisms for these conditions beginning to be understood.

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posted by lectric:
Agreed (with Tony, above). Chemical imbalances are a powerful force to be reconed with. I was diagnosed with adult ADD a few years back, started taking medication (legal amphetamines, cool) and you would not believe the difference it has made to me. There are plenty of people that think that the problem is "just in your head". I had to go to three different doctors just to get an appointment with a clinical psychologist so I could get the meds I need. (HMO's blow). Anyway, just knowing you have a condition is simply not always enough. It is a phisical condition, not a mental one, that causes mental side effects. The same way you can't fix a broken arm or bad acne just by thinking about it, you can't cure an imbalance by wishing it were gone.

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posted by Yz33d:
No, it's in your head. It's not a disease or a virus. It's a state of mind. You can call it clinical or scientific, but it's something everyone's gotta deal with.

Tell me, what's the difference in taking some of these happy-pills and drinking alcohol? They are both drugs that can be taken to acheive a certain state of mind. Which is fine. But it only covers up yourself. It doesn't cure- only you can do that. Otherwise, you could give a psycho serial killer some morphine and 'cure' his 'illness'. Or you could shoot a tranquilizer into a raging rhinoceros and 'cure' his problem.

But I could be wrong. Go with what works.

I don't think there's any debate to be had, our young friend simply needs to read up on the current medical knowledge regarding clinical depression and its treatment.

It's too easy for a healthy person to look at depression or addiction and not understand it.

Well why don't you enlighten me Mr. Fabris?

heh, yeah I guess, I just wanted it to get aired in an on-topic off-topic thread

I was diagnosed with ADD in 3rd grade. I think the ritalin helped in school when I needed it, but I'd rather be off it. What does that say? I don't know, but the existence of chemical reasons for mental problems is undeniable. Ever heard of serotonin, Yz33d?

What does it take to ban someone who adds nothing of value to this message board, and probably is a waste of Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, and various other trace elements?

Go read Diven to Distraction. by Edward M. Hallowell and John J. Ratey.

It is specific to ADD, but other imbalances are similar in form and function, though not necessarily in treatment.

I, unfortunately, wasn't diagnosed until I was 24. NOT being ADHD, the problems were not quite so prevalent when I was a child. (And being intelligent enough to graduate Magna Cum without ever having to crack a textbook didn't help much either) It wasn't until college that my attention problems became apparent.

The problem is that there's still a significant number of people who are trying to capitalize on your way of thinking: That it's all in your head and simply talking about it can fix you. These are the Depak Chopras and Scientologists of the world. They use metaphysics and pseudoscience to reinforce your way of thinking. So your average web search on the terms "depression and addiction" will bring up a whole lot of opportunistic crap that isn't actual medical documentation.

A quick scan of these pages seems to indicate that they are medically-based rather than metaphysically-based. Anyone have any better links?

Squirrel, all you have to do is click 'Logout', and then not come back.

Yeah, OK, that link seemed to be a pretty good one on closer inspection. I quote the summary page:

"Depression is not a weakness, but a serious illness with biological, psychological, and social aspects to its cause, symptoms, and treatment. A person cannot will it away. Untreated, it will worsen. Under-treated, it will return. "

Let's take a toothpick for example. A scientist can measure the chemical compound of the toothpick, the environment that the toothpick is in, the forces that will act upon the toothpick, etc., and the scientist can calculate how long it will take the toothpick to decompose.

Now take that a little further. If you could somehow measure every molecule, every atom, every force in a given environment and calculate how they will respond and react to eachother, then you could predict how that enivironment and everything within it will have changed in a given timeframe.

If you could measure every atom, every force, every reaction, in the universe then calculate the outcome, then you could predict anything about the future- it would just be a giant math problem. Now the question is, Is a human being's mind just chemicals and electrical signals and the-like acting upon one another? If so, then it could all be calculated along wth all the other atoms and forces in the universe in this math problem. And so, we find that our destiny is set. The future, every action, is the result of all of these forces acting upon one another.

Or does a human have free will, in control of his own fate?

Fuck you Yz33d. You are obviously just an immature kid with nothing better to do than shit on other people, regardless of the mental, physical or financial harm it may cause.

You like some music. Hey, why should you pay for it? It's your God give right to just copy it. Because you must be special - obviously the concept of right and wrong don't appply to you.

Some-one looks at you strange? Bang. Bang. Ratta-tatta-tatta-tat. Better get those big guns out. After all, it is your God given right to bear arms, and use them as *you* see fit. You weren't by some chance that prick driving down I95 in late September with the 6 foot model rocket mounted on the back of a pickup? The one with "Nuke-Em" painted down it? It really wouldn't shock me.

Mental Illness? "It's all in your head. Just decide to be well." I'll save you some time pondering careers - Don't try to get a job in the medical profession. It's just not up your alley. Actually, don't try to get any job that involves any kind of spiritual generosity. I don't think you're capable. I'd say you're cut out for a job that requires no soul. Maybe something like a dodgy used-car salesman, but unfortunately, I think you'd even give them a bad name.


Do you get the impression that I don't like you?
Do you get the impression that I don't like you?
Do you get the impression that I don't like you?

Is it sinking in yet?

I really don't like you.

This board has some of the most intelligent, witty, tolerant and helpful people that it has ever been my pleasure to encounter. Please don't count yourself amongst them. Your arguments in debates are illogical, your wit is insensitive and base, you tolerance is DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!!!! You don't have any. And you go out of your way to kill helpful threads, and don't ever offer anything useful in return.

I noticed a thread the other day where due to *your* misunderstanding of Hijack, and apparent inability to read the FAQ you thought there was a couple of bugs. After 2 people had kindly explained what you were seeing, and pointed you in the right direction, you responded with "Well that about explains it."
Have you ever used the phrase "Thank You." ? Just two short words. I'm sure that even you are capable of spelling them correctly. They don't cost you a cent, yet they can buy you a lot. But, that's right, I forgot. You don't need those words - after all, everyone else on this planet exists for and at your pleasure. I really should get on my knees and worship the Lord for allowing me the distinct honor of being able to share this BBS with such an almighty person.

Just where do you get off?


As from now, as far as I am concerned, you don't exist on this forum. You want some help? Don't expect me to help. You want a new Hijack feature? I'm not going to code it for you. You want a mature debate on some subject? Well, that's unlikely anyway, so no change there. Perhaps other people will follow my lead on this, but I suspect that the generosity of the other board members' spirits will prevail. We shall see.

I think you owe a lot of people on this board an apology.

Now grow up. Unlike manic depressives, you really do have a choice. The Immaturiy *is* in *your* head.

as the comic guy would say: Best.. Flame.. Ever...

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.

Thank you you pretty much summed up what Ive been thinking. Today I kinda went off on the kid (I say kid yet if he is truely 19 then he is the same age is me) but thats like 3 weeks of putting up with his selfish attitude and his view that "if I dont like it, well then its sht" . I wish I could somehow just block him