Quiet PC?

I know this subject has been brought up several times now (I've actually re-read the former threads about it ! ), but I've still got to ask you guys some questions/opinions :

I've finally bit the bullet and want to silence my PC. I know noise free is utopia, but I'm willing to go pretty far with this. The PC is in the same room where I study and I want to get it so quiet as to a point where the noise coming from the PC is no longer bothering me while studying. This surely isn't the case now!

In my case there are 4 fans : one in the PSU, one on the CPU, one on the videocard and one in front of the HD's. All make a fair amount of noise.

Now, I'll probably buy a lot of stuff from QuietPC.com. I'll start with a new PSU These ones are supposed to only make 27dB worth of noise. Pretty quiet! One drawback : the max wattage they have is 300watts. My current is PSU is 340Watts. Should this make a big difference? (contents of my PC : intel 850 mobo, i1.8A CPU, 2Hd's, cd-reader & cd-writer, floppy, videocard (Gforce3 TI200), soundcard (audigy), NIC and adaptec 2904 SCSI card (for cd drives). I'm asking this because I upgrade my system fairly frequently and I don't want to get into troubles once I have a system that breaks the 2Ghz barrier (which will happen in the near future now). The website of quitePC only makes mention of a caveat when using AMD 1.9+ CPU's so I guess I'm pretty safe? Note : I ONLY use intel CPU's. I avoid AMD like the plague. I gather Intel CPU's are not so power hungry, so I should be golden for a fairly good period?

I'll probably leave the CPU cooler as-is (for now). The standard Intel cooler is actually pretty quiet by itself. I may upgrade it once this Super Silent 4 is available in July.

Next the cooler in front of the HD. I plan on buying one or two of these, maybe in combination with the Fanmate Variable Fan Speed Controller.
The idea of using the Silentdrive enclosure is pretty dead for me because I use 7200RPM drives and I just don't trust this enclosure to conduct enough unwanted heat not to damage my HD's. Or maybe I could use those in combination with an ultra quiet fan blowing air onto them ? I just don't know yet. What do you guys think?

Then, the one I believe will be the biggest problem : the fan of the video card. This tiny little bugger makes a HELL of a lot of noise! It's an Asus 8200 Gforce3Ti 200 videocard. Not a bad card, but I plan on replacing it with a Matrox Parhelia once those become available (I've been a Matrox fan for years now, but my G400Max became old and since there was no new option from Matrox at that time, I was forced to turn to Nvidia) .

I've only found a few options like this or this one, but I'm not sure they provide enough cooling for those hot Gforce3 GPU's. I don't even know if they will fit! Anyone tried this yet?
I woud like to find a little, quiet fan to put on the Gforce GPU in replacement of the one on there now, but I haven't found one yet. Keep in mind that the current video card cooler also covers the videocard's RAM. Any suggestions?
Then finally I intend to apply this Powersnooze acoustic damping on the inside of my case. I believe this wil also help a great deal in lessening the noise level.

This is basically what I have in mind. Any suggestions are most welcome! Just on an additional note : I run my hardware at their designed specs! No overclocking whatsoever!

BTW, I've also heard that water cooled systems are very quiet. Anybody have any exprience with this?

Yes, the water-cooled systems are quiet, but they do NOT cool well. At all... May want to check out http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010706/index.html

I wish you the best of luck on your silencing. Let us know how it goes.

I agree that fans on video cards are a big issue. I wish there was a way I could just put huge-ass heat sinks on my CPU and my video card, and then pipe the airflow from my power supply over them.

I've seen some OEM systems that do this, and I'd like to see that sort of solution from aftermarket PC-builder sites.

One thing I'd suggest is to try booting up your PC with the case off (just power on) with one item at a time disconnected (except of course for your power supply, that's a hard one to disconnect). This way you can find the noisiest item(s). I found that one of my older 10 GB drives was the noisiest item by far. I managed to quiet my PC significantly by setting the disks to power down after 15 minutes. Regardless of what you find, you'll know for sure what your #1 target is.

-Zeke

I managed to quiet my PC significantly by setting the disks to power down after 15 minutes.

Wish I could get away with doing that. The times when I'd want my PC the quietest are when I'm doing digital audio work, such as recording. At those times, I need the disks fully spun up.

One thing I'd suggest is to try booting up your PC with the case off (just power on) with one item at a time disconnected

I've already done that. The cooler of the video card is the noisiest by far.
It's also the one I don't really know what to do about. I'm hoping one of the BBS users will be able to point me in the direction of an alternative cooler.

Just curious, why such an aversion to AMD?

Wish I could get away with doing that. The times when I'd want my PC the quietest are when I'm doing digital audio work, such as recording. At those times, I need the disks fully spun up.

tony, those are the time u just have to crank the volume up.

How much do you want to spend on this? (other than as little as possible)
Could an option be to put your computer into a separate ducted and ventilated box, away from your desk. You could then run your CD drives in a separate box on your desk connected via firewire or USB2.
If you do this, a largish box with a slow moving, large diameter fan would be necessary; as would good quality monitor, keyboard and mouse cables.

OR

if you manage to get a new fan for your noisy display card, they are generally quieter than the factory installed cheapies.
Modifying your case to minimise turbulence and rubber mounting case fans helps too.

Just curious, why such an aversion to AMD ?

Well, this had grown throughout the years.

Until a couple of years ago AMD really wasn't an option. Their CPU's drained power, got scorching hot (only thing worse then was Cyrix) and were lacking in performance. Granted, with the aquisition of Nexgen and the usage of Nexgen's technology which resulted in the Athlon, the performance thing has been fixed.

But, I still don't like AMD. Why? Their CPU's still consume too much power resulting in VERY hot chips that require a more efficient (read LOUDER) cooler. (not convinced? Check out this movie)

Also, I like intel chipsets. I've never had a problem with a peripheral that I wanted to install in a motherboard with an intel chipset. I can't say the same for VIA, SIS or ALI. I hate those brands even more than AMD. If the time ever comes that an AMD cpu will work on an Intel chipset, then I will consider one. (fat chance, I know )

A friend of mine has his own computer shop. I spend a lot of time there, so I know how much AMD cpu's gone bad he sees. A lot. In all the time he's had his shop he NEVER had an intel cpu gone bad on him.
Best part is, since a year or so he flat out refuses to sell AMD anymore, and he STILL gets a lot of AMD repairs in.

That's it really. Intel has NEVER let me down. That's something I can't say about many hardware manufacturers (Matrox is also one of them). So until intel tosses something on the market that is really utter crap, I'll stay loyal to the brand.
Sure they may cost somewhat more, but at least when I'm buying an Intel CPU, I know that I'm working with decent quality material.

How much do you want to spend on this? (other than as little as possible)

I'm willing to spend about $200-$250 on this.

The "remote PC" solution you're suggesting is good, but not an option for me since I really don't have the room to put the PC somewhere else.

if you manage to get a new fan for your noisy display card, they are generally quieter than the factory installed cheapies

Yeah, I know. I believe I WILL try such a Zalman Cooler. I've looked on the web and I haven't found anything but positive reviews.
But to be sure that my Gforce card doesn't get scorched, I will add this little thingie to my PC. (review here)

Modifying your case to minimise turbulence and rubber mounting case fans helps too

I know, that's why I will be adding that "powersnooze" noise absorbing material on the inside of the PC. I figure (hope) that will be a solution to the tubulence.

Until a couple of years ago AMD really wasn't an option.

AMD has always been a great option. They took the 386 (up to 40MHz) and 486 (up to 120 and 133MHz which beat Pentium 75) further than Intel. I built MANY machines based on the K5. K5 was a mad-cheap and great alternative to Pentium. When K6 came out, It was able to keep up with Pentium II for much cheaper. And, it used Socket7 so even motherboards were cheap and plentiful. AMD rules.

only thing worse then was Cyrix

I've never had a Cyrix processor go bad on me. Granted, I only started using them when they introduced the 6x86 "L" series. The "L" stood for low voltage. They always worked, were cheap, and that's all that really matters when all you customers ever do is chat on AOL.

After VIA bought Cyrix and IDT's WinChip division, the C3 was born. I have built a few machines based on it. Two of them had no fan. Just a heatsink. Check out this video.

Nexgen's technology which resulted in the Athlon, the performance thing has been fixed.

I owned a Nexgen 5x86 90. That thing blew. I am sure there is more to the Athlon than just the Nexgen's 6x86 core.

Their CPU's still consume too much power resulting in VERY hot chips that require a more efficient (read LOUDER) cooler.

Not true. I use a QuietPC cooler on the machine I'm currently writing this on. With the case on, the cooler is silent. My video card is an ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon. The fan on that card sucks and I took it off months ago (no more noise ). Since this machine is currently Micro-ATX, there is very little room in the case. Even so, I have an Athlon XP 1600, 512MB DDR memory, 7200RPM hard drive, all PCI and AGP slots populated, both 5 1/4" bays populated, and NOT A SINGLE CASE FAN. The only fan other than the CPU fan is the power sullpy fan and it's quiet enough not to bother me at all. You can see some pics of this mahcine here. It is rock solid, running Win2k, and flys like a mofo.

Also, I like intel chipsets. I've never had a problem with a peripheral that I wanted to install in a motherboard with an intel chipset. I can't say the same for VIA, SIS or ALI. I hate those brands even more than AMD.

Perhaps you don't remeber the Intel 430TX chipset. Intel's "flagship" chipset that could only cache 64MB of RAM. This was so dispicable, people continued using the "outdated" and discontinued HX that could cache 512MB. This discrepency allowed VIA, SiS, and later ALi to start dominating the Pentium/Socket7 chipset business by offering better and cheaper chipsets. Granted, Intel chip and Intel chipset is a great combo, but after the TX came out I was using VIA's offering with Intel, AMD, and Cyrix chips. Also, no Intel Socket7 chipset supported AGP. Thanks Intel.

As for peripheral problems, I can agree with you to an extent on that. This is mainly a VIA issue with the Sound Blaster Live. Even then, it's the peripheral manufacturers problem with only testing on Intel chipsets and straying from standards. IIRC the SB Live/VIA problem was mainly the fault of Creative Labs. I've never heard of problems with SiS chipsets that weren't board specific. ALi chipsets are usually very good especially the current ALi Magik1.

A friend of mine has his own computer shop. I spend a lot of time there, so I know how much AMD cpu's gone bad he sees.

When I was a dumb kid (I worked nearly for free after school), I used to be the only tech at a local computer shop during the 486, 5x86, K5, K6, and Athlon Slot A era. AMD chips never came back. We had a few Pentium machines come to us with burnt out chips, but this wasn't Intel's fault. There was a period when the P166 was very expensive and the fly-by-night system builders were using shaved P90 chips and overclocking them to 166 and putting a Cyrix cooler (their coolers were huge and deafening at the time) on them. After a few months of getting slower, the chips finally gave in and died. Lucky for us, as the high-priced honest shop, we would then fit their machine with the proper Intel chip or talk them into a K5. Again, this is not Intel's fault.

I will say it again. I have never had to throw out a burnt AMD chip. I've never even had dead Cyrix for that matter.

Intel has NEVER let me down.

Their stuff works, but it is a horrible value. My website spmicro.com runs on a Pentium Pro 200. The only reason for that is I paid $1000 for that chip and I'll be damned if I don't get my money out of it. $1000 for a chip!?!?!?! WHAT WAS I THINKING!?!?!? Seriously, that is the only Intel machine I use daily (aside from the empeg ). I build all of the machines at my office and most are Durons, and before that they were K6's. I trust AMD so much that our NT 4 server runs an Athlon 1.2GHz. That thing runs for about a month before needing a reboot. And, the reboot is due to NT's instability, not the Athlon. This machine also uses a VIA chipset. Our RedHat Linux webserver runs an Athlon XP 1600 with an AMD chipset. Aside from the occasional hack , that thing never goes down.

So until intel tosses something on the market that is really utter crap, I'll stay loyal to the brand.

P4 looks like crap to me. Overpriced crap that is. The original Celeron was also a huge blunder.

but at least when I'm buying an Intel CPU, I know that I'm working with decent quality material.

Most of Intel's CPUs are manufactured by other companies overseas such as Samsung. There are guidelines they must follow, but they can deviate somewhat.

AMD's chips are primarily made in their factory in Dresden Germany. AMD's factory under their control.

AMD gets my money. And, my machine is still quiet as hell. If you do go AMD, get a board based on the SiS 735 chipset or VIA KT333. Both these chipsets can be run without fans. But, make sure your mobo manufacturer chooses to exclude the fan.

If you decide to go Intel, I guess the little-green-men TV commercials got to you. God help us all.

I personally stopped buying AMD when I found out I couldn't play Warcraft 2 on it. (GOD that was a long time ago...)

Also a couple of thoughts... I have a buddy that runs peltiers and water cooling. They work well together but condensation is a problem. He goes through ALOT of descicant (spelling?)

I have a former shipmate that got out of the Navy and started working for intel. The plant he works in is Oregon I think.

Not that I am completely against AMD, Intel has had some dark times as well... Anyone know or remember the scandal with the 386/486 SX/DX scam? The only MAJOR differences between the SX's and DX's were external clock multipliers and the co-processor's enable pin was simply not connected on the SX model. For a while Intel sold 486 SX with an extra socket for upgrading to a DX. It required you to keep the SX chip in place but the upgrade was another 486 chip with the coprosser enabled. That way they were ensured that you would buy two of the otherwise identical processors.

From Upgrading and Repairing PC's 11th edition page 122, 123;

"The 486SX Chip is more of a marketing quirk than new technology. Early versions of the 486SX chips were actually DX chips that showed defects in the math coprocessor section. Instead of being scrapped the chips were packaged with the FPU disabled and sold as SX chips. ...no technical provision exists for adding a seperate math coprocessor to a 486SX system. Instead Intel wanted you to add a new 486 processor with a built in math unit and disable the SX cpu.
The 487SX math coprocessor as intel calls it, really is a complete 25mhz 486DX CPU with an extra pin added and some other pins rearranged. When the 487 is installed it disables the SX chip. The 487SX takes over all CPU functions"
The paragraph goes on to tell us that the 487 chip was a stopgap while they were coming up with the OVERDRIVE chip. That used the same pin config.

All of what robricc said was what my basic impression was. So I won't add anything to that!

I just wanted to say that I know someone on another board who's store sells nothing but AMD. I'm sure they wouldn't do it if there was that great a chance of them burning out.

Besides, don't you want this beautiful specimen? It's what I want to put in the PC I'm building soon:

SOYO Dragon Ultra (Silver)

The SOYO Dragons are about the best you can do if you are going to go with AMD. I thought about it when I bought my P4 1.8 but I am stil hung up on that Warcraft thing LOL

AMD has always been a great option. They took the 386 (up to 40MHz) and 486 (up to 120 and 133MHz which beat Pentium 75

I know. I've owned all of those machines. I will NOT argue with you when you say AMD gives you more bang for your buck. That's always been the case and the nr. 1 AMD policy. But I look further than that.

I've never had a Cyrix processor go bad on me. Granted, I only started using them when they introduced the 6x86 "L" series

I did. About eight years ago I went through the same experience as you did : I ALSO used to be the only tech at a local computer shop during the 486, 5x86, K5, K6, and Athlon Slot A era. I've built A LOT of systems based on AMD K5, Cyrix CPU's (then built by IBM). I also made a lot of pentium systems. (I also remember the times of the "shaved" CPU's)

The performance of both AMD and Cyrix wasn't bad, as long as you stayed with programs mainly running integer operations. If you wanted to use programs heavy on the floating points (read games à la quake) those Cpu's just were pure crap. AMD and Cyrix had a problem in this respect : their market was the low budget high school/college student. Well this is the exact market that plays A LOT of games. And this is where those CPU's crapped out. (remember, this is in the pre-3D card era). I had a lot of people returning to me after having bought an AMD or a Cyrix asking me if I could do something about the bad games performance ("I've only bought this PC this week, it's brand new and still to slow to play this game"). Sure there was : upgrade to Intel.
AMD only got it right when they released the Athlon. By then Cyrix wasn't a player anymore.

And please don't talk to me about IDT's winchip's. I also built a few systems on those. Four words : low cost, low performance.

I am sure there is more to the Athlon than just the Nexgen's 6x86 core

Sure there is. Only the Athlon's floating point unit was built based on Nexgens' designs. The rest was mainly AMD stuff.

I use a QuietPC cooler on the machine I'm currently writing this on...

Ah! Sure, NOW, you're running one of those, but back then those kinds of coolers didn't exist! Back then you were obligated to put a high performace cooler (LOUD!) on and AMD and an even higher performance cooler (EVEN LOUDER! ) on a Cyrix. And you'll understand from my first post that I'm somewhat alergic to background noise. I will agree with you that nowadays with those quiet coolers this isn't such a valid point anymore.

A question though : you've REMOVED the fan on your radeon and continue to work with it like that ? Doesn't the card get too hot and lock up? (I wouln't know since I've never owned ATI, only Matrox and now nVidia)

Perhaps you don't remeber the Intel 430TX chipset.....Also, no Intel Socket7 chipset supported AGP. Thanks Intel

I do remember the TX chipset, but you have to keep things into perspective. In those days, 64Mb of RAM was A LOT. There weren't many people that used that much. Also, in those days Intel was the only CPU manufacturer that came out with innovating new technologies. After Intels new technology had sweated it out first, then AMD came along with a new CPU that was comparable in results but cheaper. Intel was ALWAYS the pioneer. Kudos to them for that. ( I agree that nowadays this has changed somewhat and Intel and AMD are both equally innovating, especially considering the different paths each manufacturer is taking with their Hammer and Itanium CPU's). In those days, Intel pioneered (or was about to) the Pentium II. Now, I've never agreed with them on the Slot1 thing, but I can understand how they wanted to push it. If people were to take it it had to have more props that just "the new CPU technology", especially since "new" CPU tecyhnology isn't that competitive at first (the P4 is an excellent example of this). So bring in AGP and USB. (USB was also on pentium boards, but now the connectors were actually there thanks to the ATX form factor). Intel would have shot itself in the foot if they would have built socket 7 systems with AGP too.
OK so the HX didn't have an AGP slot. At first, AGP offered little more performance than PCI anyway. Like with all new technologies, it's performance grew in time. And by the time it really made a difference, most of use were using PII with LX or PIII with BX chipset anyway.

I have never had to throw out a burnt AMD chip. I've never even had dead Cyrix for that matter

Well, I have, a lot. I'm not just saying this. I'm saying this because I've experienced this. If you haven't,.... well, let's agree to disagree then.

If you do go AMD...

Erm...no thanks...

If you decide to go Intel, I guess the little-green-men TV commercials got to you

They've never broadcasted those there in Belgium. I do remember them from seeing them on the internet. So I guess I'm not that indoctrinated after all...

No, seriously, I base my judgement on my own experiences. I've put AMD and Intel systems together for years. The only systems that I can remember that crapped out constantly were the AMD's. That did it for me then : no AMD in my own pc. I'm willing to agree that this has changed a lot with the Athlon nowadays, but still I don't want them.
Stubborn as I am. So njah!

I just wanted to say that I know someone on another board who's store sells nothing but AMD. I'm sure they wouldn't do it if there was that great a chance of them burning out.

Tjah...what can I say to that? To each his own I guess...

Besides, don't you want this beautiful specimen?

Not really no. I too had my fair share of nice looking boards.
This was one of the nicest...

I respectfully disagree.

I know nothing about pcs but that is a pretty colour

Is it any good

Also, I like intel chipsets. I've never had a problem with a peripheral that I wanted to install in a motherboard with an intel chipset. I can't say the same for VIA, SIS or ALI. I hate those brands even more than AMD. If the time ever comes that an AMD cpu will work on an Intel chipset, then I will consider one. (fat chance, I know )

This is my exact reason for sticking with Intel. It's also pretty much the only reason. I know that there are a lot of people that like to dork with their hardware, but I use computers for a living, and the last thing I want to do is argue with hardware configuration for hours or days on end. I'd much rather be arguing with software.

Of course, as someone pointed out, there have been issues with some Intel chipsets as well, but I've never had anything but problems with other manufacturers' chipsets.

And someone also mentioned that AMD gave you more bang for your buck. I was looking just recently, and, unless you're looking at the fastest processors out there, it's just not true anymore. Intel and AMD prices are fairly comparable, and Intel comes out easily on top for me, based on my observations that they're just easier to work with. But if, somehow, an AMD processor were to work on an Intel chipset, or someone could show me that another chipset would work consistently as well as an Intel chipset, I'd jump board in a minute. I'm no Intel fan, but they simply seem to have a more quality solution right now (probably solely because it's the de-facto standard), and as unfortunate as it is, it's not AMD's fault, unless you want to fault them for not stepping up and making a solid chipset of their own.

That board is $180. That is A LOT of dough for a board. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. I've had a few flakey Soyo boards in the past that have soured me on the brand.

However, the Soyo Dragon series is hugely popular. I am sure it is a fine board.

I agree with you and with Rob about AMD. However, you might want to take a look at the (Legacy Free) Abit AT7E, or the Gigabyte 7VRXP. Both out perform the Dragon and, I think, have nicer features. So far, the 7VRXP seems to be the winner in performance, but because of features (and middle of the line performance) I just bought an AT7E.

Also, about Warcraft II not working on an AMD processor, I have never had a problem playing it on any of my AMD machines (old and new).

Call me crazy, but if I were to buy a P4 board it would be based on the SiS 645DX. None of Intel's current chipsets are that great unless you are willing to use Rambus memory.

None of Intel's current chipsets are that great unless you are willing to use Rambus memory.

...which I do. The price difference isn't that big anymore.

Also, Intel released some new i845 chipsets in the last few weeks which show very comparable DDR performance to the competitions solutions.

The DDR333 SiS 645DX does beat out a Rambus equipped PC800 Intel 850 according to this Tom's Hardware review. Just throwing that out there.

Hehe. That's a review dating from march 11th. It's already a bit out of date with the new intel chipsets that have been released (i845E & G and i850E)

Anyway, why are we discussing this? I would be VERY surprised if you put two such systems next to each other with otherwise identical installs and you would be able to tell a difference in speed.

Anyway, why are we discussing this? I would be VERY surprised if you put two such systems next to each other with otherwise identical installs and you would be able to tell a difference in speed.

Agreed.

For a more powerfull PSU, upto 550W infact, try these from Scan.

HERE

Back to quiet-ness... the quietest PC I've ever seen is a generic Dell Dimension. Out of the box, these things are just amazingly silent. You wonder if they're even turned on.

I got my home-built to be more quiet than the Dell they gave me at work... (I've got an Athlon 1.4, a 400W Antec PS, and a Gainward GF3 ti200)

1st step: ditch the noisy case fans. I purchased a pair of these for that: http://www.siliconacoustics.com/panfbl08a1.html . They push as much air as any other 80mm case fan I've ever seen over the years, and they are nearly silent. I have two of these pointed out the back of my Antec 840, and have no issues at all with case temps.

I actually bought 3 of them total, and pulled my existing power supply out to put one of those into that as well. Being careful of capacitors and etc, it was really pretty easy to do. Once I quieted the case fans down, I was glad I went for the third fan for the P/S.

Next I realized how unbelieveably loud my CPU fan was. As an Intel guy, you may not know of, or be able to use some of these items, but I had a Thermaltake Volcano 5 with a 60mm fan on my chip. Sounded like a small jet engine, once I was now able to hear it over the case fans. I purchased a Thermalright http://www.thermalright.com/ax7.html AX-7 for my heatsink (set up for an 80mm fan, to get the same airflow with lower fan speed). Combined that with a variable speed YS-Tech 80mm case fan (got everything from Newegg). I can turn the fan down while I'm surfing, for again practically no noise. Or, I turn it up if I'm ripping CD's or playing games. Even turned up, it's much quieter than my previous setup, and cools better as well. There's a variety of software alarms that beep at you if the chip starts to get hot, so I have little concern about forgetting to turn the speed back up. I'd like to automate the fan speed according to chip temp, but haven't figured out how yet.

I'm planning to get one of these for the chipset: http://www.siliconacoustics.com/aavidpassive.html, because having a fan on there is just silly I think.

My video card cooler is actually really quiet, so I've never been concerned about it. I'm not sure what you'd do there. I suspect the Zalman you pointed out would be fine at stock core speeds.

Right now the whole deal is very quiet, and even what you do hear is a low pitched, air movement kind of sound, not the high pitched whining and rattling there was before. I'd like to also get some damping material for the inside, but the recent changes have been so effective I've stopped short of needing to even bother. I use my PC to play DVD's on my TV, so it's in the living room. I don't even notice it's on any more.

Right now one of the main openings in front of the case is in front of the hard drive stack, so I fell like I'm doing fine there.

That's what I did anyway. Right now the loudest thing on the PC is - well, nothing stands above anything else. When a CD drive spools up it's far and away the loudest part at that point, where before I barely even noticed it. Overall the 3 Panaflo's in the case, and the heatsink I got (with the variable semi-quiet fan) made a huge impact. I'm happy...

And I love my AMD!

"Most of Intel's CPUs are manufactured by other companies overseas such as Samsung. There are guidelines they must follow, but they can deviate somewhat.

Rob,
I think you may be speaking from unfounded information. If you buy an Intel branded processor it was made by Intel, in an Intel fab.

While I am a new Intel employee and I may have overlooked something, I do not believe they outsource CPU manufacturing. Even that aside, your statement is completely incongruous with one of their key strategies.

Best regards,
Tim

You're right. I heard that on the net once. I shouldn't have presented it as fact. Shame on me.

Thanks Tarkie for the link! Phew 550Watts? AND they're supposed to be "whipser quiet" ? Wow!

Thanks tracer for the links and the info!

Actually, I do know those Volcano 5 coolers. AND I know they're noisy as hell. A perfect example of how it SHOULDN'T be.

I think I will go with the Zalman cooler on my video card, but there's just one thing that bugs me. The cooler on my Gforce3 also covers the Dram on the card. If I remove it and replace it with a Zalman cooler, I doubt the memory will still be cooled. Does anybody advise against this?

When a CD drive spools up it's far and away the loudest part at that point...

Wow! Now THAT'S the kind of sound damping I'm aiming at!

And I love my AMD!

Well, good for you! (sorry, couldn't resist!)

Of course, no matter which processor you prefer, they're all going for cheaper now! All the prices were lowered recently. And I was suprised to see it show up so quickly even on pricewatch. The price for a retail box Athlon 2100+ dropped from about $250 to $190 shipped. At least that's what I saw. So it's good for us all.

Well yeah, though I'll probably never have AMD in my own system, I am thankful that they are around.
Competition is always a good thing. In fact, I would welcome a third or fourth CPU manufacturer for mainstream desktop PC's. If only to keep Intel on their toes and not having them rise their prices up to insane levels. (before anybody says so, I'll say it myself : yes, even more insane than they are now! )

No no, I was saying BOTH processors have dropped prices. Seems everyone's doing that these days (thanks xbox/PS2/GC). I only used the Athlon as an example because that's what I'm looking at.

What's cooling the AIW if you've taken off the fan?

I'm building a small PC in a Shuttle SV25 casing which apparently is loud as hell. I did actually think of using a C3 but decided against it in the end. The rest of the components in it would drown out the noise of the CPU fan.

You're lucky that they even put a bigger fan on the P90s. I've had to inspect the junk created by dodgy system builders just overclocking the CPU without any attempt at improving cooling. It works for a while but as you've seen it will just die horriblely. The magic smoke gets let out!

I thought Intel manufactured everything in their own fabs? Their website mentions that they've got 13 fabs of their own

- Trevor

What's cooling the AIW if you've taken off the fan?

The heatsink the fan screws into is still on the Radeon chip. This seems to be enough. Probably not though.

I thought Intel manufactured everything in their own fabs?

Yeah, It seems you're right. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was just regurgitating some crap I heard on the net years ago.

I'd say if it works then leave it. If you're not doing anything too strenous then it probably is fine.

Oops. Didn't see it mentioned anywhere else. Sorry to bring it up again

- Trevor

I'd say you'll probably won't run into problems until you'll start playing some heavy FPS games (like quake 3) for an extended period of time. Those things really stress your GPU.
Otherwise you'll probably will be fine. If the unit were to crap out because of the lack of the fan, it probably would have done so by now.

Ok guys!

Yesterday I finally received all the stuff I ordered to silence my pc.
I've got a :

Q technology 400Watts PSU
1 Zalman CPU cooler for P4
3 pabst case fans, each with their own Zalman Fan mates (to control their RPM / noise level)
1 pabst 40mm x 40mm 12dB fan to replace the one on my Gforce3.
Sound absorption mats to put on the inside of my case.
MacPower Digidoc temperature and fan controller (to monitor the whole thing when in use)

Total cost : about $350

Findings :

The sound level has definitely decreased, but not really to the level I wanted it to. I found out the biggest noise pollutors are actually the two 7200 RPM harddrives AND THE NEW PSU! Concerning the harddisks : currently I have no solution to fix this. The only option to fix this I know of (the silentdrive enclosure) will not work for me since that is a solution for 5400Rpm drives ONLY.
The new PSU however is a different matter. I put my old PSU back (a chieftec 340 Watts), and the difference in noise level was very noticable. Needless to say that new "silent" PSU will be returned on monday.

The Zalman CPU cooler, though I had my doubts about its effectiveness at first, really turned out to be the big surprise of the lot. While the stock Intel CPU cooler cooled my CPU to a decent 36°C, the Zalman cooled it to
32°C !! (in quiet mode, so this is with the supportive fan at only half speed - I think 30°C should be obtainable with full speed, but I don't see the point). Actually I believe the temperature would have increased, wile in fact it decreased. Quite a nice surprise!

Would I do it again ?
Mmm, hard to say. While the noise level had definitely dropped, it has not dropped to the amount I thought it would. Mostly this is because of the HD's though, so if I could find a solution for that, chances are I will look entirely different upon this.

I found out the biggest noise pollutors are actually the two 7200 RPM harddrives

I made a similar discovery a while back. I was interested in quieting my PC down, and I tried an experiment where I simply disconnected every fan in the case for a moment (already had a "silencer" PSU) so that the only noise remaining was the hard drives. I decided that it was still too noisy, so I didn't bother with spending any more money.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you.
If I was to do it all over again I would get :

1) the Zalman CPU cooler
2) Those zalman Fanmates to control the RPM of the case fans.

That's it! The PSU I already owned turned out to be very silent in the first place.
With all the case fans turned to half their normal speed, they're barely noticable while still providing adequate cooling for my system.

Now, I some company could just come up with a way to silence those HD's I would be totally happy.

In looking around once, I found a different hard drive quieting solution. It's based on the fact that the hard drive ends up using the case as an amplifier to its vibrations. The NoVibes product isolates the hard drive by suspending it via some rubber bands (O-rings, actually). I've never seen one of these in person, much less ``heard'' or used one, but it seems to make sense. Try removing your hard drives from the case and holding them in your hand while they power up to see if they seem quieter. If so, you might want to look at getting some of these.

Also, keep in mind that the SilentDrive enclosures are not recommended based on spindle speed, but on heat dissipation. If your drive generates 5 or fewer Watts of heat, then it should be okay inside a SilentDrive. 5400RPM is just a guideline if you're unable to find specific information on your drive.

I've read about this Novibes thing. The online store where I got some of my other silencing products also sells it.

Actually, it gave me an idea. Yesterday I packed the insides of my PC in with sound-damping mats, also in the spirit of killing as much noise as possible. These sound damping mats are made of a soft carpet-like material and get glued onto the iron of the case. (on the inside)

So I figured I'd remove my HD's from the hd rack of the PC and just lay them onto the 'carpet' on the bottom of the case.

Result? AMAZING! A whisper-quiet PC! Incredible!

This would be ideal, but I don't think I'll keep it this way. For one, there's an 80mm fan on the back of that drive bay containing my two hd's that actively cools them (I believe this is necessary for 7200RPM drives.) If I lay my Hd's on the bottom of my PC case I can't use that fan anymore to cool them. I don't like that very much.

Though that Nvibes option sounds great, I think it's a pity it requires a 5,25" drive bay. I've got two HD's in that case, and only one 5,25" slot free. (of course)...

However, the difference in sound level is just too big to ignore. I'll see if I can manually mod my case somwhat to allow me to use it in this fashion AND keep the HD's adequately cooled. This should be do-able.
I'll look into this next week. I don't have the time for it this week.

Well, I guess this is where different people want different things... If I got it down to my hard drives being the noisiest thing, I'd call it a success! Although perhaps there are other differences...

I'm running off Western Digital's, 120 Gig witht he 8MB cache on them. I think there's something about a fluid bearing in them...? Perhaps a different hard drive would be quieter, but - a lot more money, for what really? Also, my Antec 840 case is really heavy! It *feels* like about 40-50 pounds. It's heavier than my 19" Hitachi monitor is. It's possible that the hard drives are just no match for it, and end up relatively quiet.

Just an idea, not sure if this would work: For a lot of applications (ie browsing), I wonder if setting the hard drives on a very short power cycle (turn off after 3 minutes of non-use maybe?), combined with several sticks of 256MB RAM would help keep the drives from spinning?

Lastly, you might think of a creative way to leave the drives in their holder, and the holder pretty much where it is, but with some sort of dampening right around it - that is, a piece of rubber between pieces of metal. You'd have some tight fits in spots, and may have to create holes in it for your bolts to run through, but could be another idea?

One more thing - any specifics on your video card fan? Sound, temps, brand you used?

It seems our systems are VERY similar. I too use Western Digital SE Hd's. I too am using an Antec case, be it a SX1030B series. (sold under the name Chieftec here)

I just couldn't resist, and this is what I've done : I've drilled out the supporting mechanism of the drive bay, and thus cleared a lot of room in the bottom of my PC. This way I can just let the harddisk bay rest on the carpet on the bottom of the PC. The fan on the drive bay still works since it can draw its air from the hole in the bottom of the front panel.

This works remakebly well. Of course, this way my harddisks (still screwed in the drive bay) are not fastened to anything in the case. But since I NEVER move my case this is not a problem.

Leaving the harddisk in the bay is not an option. It's a VERY thight fit and it would always pass the vibrations through somehow. It's simply not possible to seal every piece of iron of the case off from the harddisk bay. I've tried. The way I've ended up doing it was by far the easiest solution.

My video card now is an Asus Gforce3 Ti200. The fan on that one was REALLY noisy (possibly the noisiest one of the entire system). The really bad thing about it is that it uses ONE big heatsink (in an odd shape) to cover both the GPU and the Dram chips. (see here). So I unscrewed the small fan an put a new one on top of it (this one, the one on top). I just couldn't fasten it to the card since the fan that comes with the card is is not as thick as the new one, so I couldn't use the screws that came with it. If finally atached it with four rubber bands that I attached to the VGA card itself. This works pretty well. The fan gets held firmly where it should be held. The temperature rises no more than 46°C, a very acceptable temperature I would think. (I can check this real time with the Macpower digidoc5 unit I purchased)

BTW, anyone know the max operating temperature of a Gforce3 Chip?

This Macpower unit is really great! It show the temperature of 8 different temperature sensors that can be placed inside the case. I placed one on my VGA card, one on each HD and I let one floating in the case.
The average temperature of my HD's is now 28°C, the case ambient temerature 31°C and the VGA card runs up to 46°C. The Zalman cooler on my CPU makes sure my CPU never warms up above 35°C.

So in my case I now have :
* four 80mm case fans (two on the back of the case, one on drive bay and one above my CPU cooler). All of these fans are turned to half speed ("silent mode") with Zalman's Fan Mate 1 RPM controllers.
* one 40mm 12dB fan (on VGA card)
* The standard case PSU itself - turned out very quiet in the end (I'll return that Q technology PSU and save myself $120)

So in the end the total cost was :

Four Zalman fan mate RPM controllers @ 10$/piece
Three 80mm fans @ $15/piece
One 40mm fan : $16
One Zalman CPU cooler : $40
Sound absorbing mats : $65
Total of +/- $200

I can now hardly hear my PC running. The window in this room is open, and the ambient noise of birds chirping is actually louder that the noise produced by my PC. Now THIS was what I was looking for!

So I'll re-word my previous statement :
Would I do it again? YOU BET! The difference (now) is amazing ! For $200 I now have a system that's about as quiet as my i386 was ten years ago (you know, when the only thing in your pc that contained a fan was the PSU)

For a lot of applications (ie browsing), I wonder if setting the hard drives on a very short power cycle (turn off after 3 minutes of non-use maybe?), combined with several sticks of 256MB RAM would help keep the drives from spinning?

Only with certain programs now. Unless your browser allows for a no disk cache option, browsing would spin the drive back up every change of the page. And most applications now auto save your work in case a crash occurs. I have to admit that browsing on a completly silent machine is awesome, but rare. I used to queue up several pages on my Solo laptop, let the drive spin down, and read web pages in the silence of my room at night.