AC Shensor Shwitch

Today when I put the player into the car at the end of the day, I dishcovered that I have the AC shenshor switch problem.

I'd shend the player into shupport, but I'm a do-it-your-shelfer type and would rather just sholder in the new part myshelf. Sho, where can I order thish part?

Good thing I'm not doing the sholdering tonight, becaush I'm shmashed. (Got deliberately drunk becaush of shome shit that went down at work today.)

/me goes to mixsh himshelf another margaroota...

Oh, and let me pershonally thank Mark Lord from the bottom of my tequila-soaked heart.
I LOVE THE "FORCE AC/DC POWER MODE" FEATURE. MARK LORD, I LOVE YOU, MAN!

Saved my ash on the drive home tonight.

Which, of courshe, was BEFORE the tequiulala.... I dohn't drink and drive....

tequiulala

Would somebody please FAQ him on the dangers of excessive alcohol intake ;-)

No need,... he'll do it himself tomorrow

...FORCE AC/DC POWER MODE...

Does the power off feature still work for you (and other readers inflicted with this shen^H^H^H^Hsensor switch problem)?

It doesn't in my Celica. Haven't got around to checking the wiring yet (yup, read the FAQ and BBS threads on the subject).

Actually, I assume that the only way Empeg knows where it is, is by the sensor switch (there is no loop on the sled connector) and the ACC line detects between 12v and (0v or not connected). So should my broken-sensor-switch, force-DC-mode, powered-by-AC-power-supply, ACC-line-not-high Emepg power off when in standby?

...BEFORE the tequiulala...

Reminds me of Terry Pratchett's bananana dakry (2 links).

And why doesn't UBBCode have underline?

And why doesn't UBBCode have underline?

Because, like most web content, it more closely approximates typeset text than it does the output of a typewriter. It has italic instead.

Peter

Hey.. first I've heard of any issue.

The Force AC/DC power mode feature (Hijack) is working fine as far as I know.

If it's giving you grief, I/we need to hear about it so it can get fixed!

Note that the current version of this feature can also do power mode settings based on the presence (or absence!) of a specific Tuner module as well.

Cheers

Hey, I'm not saying it is broken. I'm saying I don't know what the functionality should be. With "Force DC mode on" things like fade, dimming when car lights are on and so forth work just fine. Hijack really is a sanity saver here.

I also have the "Restore DC/Car visuals" selected.

It is just that when I turn off my engine, Empeg doesn't stop playing and when I put it into standby, Empeg doesn't eventually power off. I have Hijack v330 on top of firmware 2.0.

Edit: Keep forgetting to mention I don't have a tuner (was planning to say so in the original post)

So in other words, the Force AC/DC Power Mode feature is working 100% correctly, as advertised. Thank-you.

Note that the "power off from standby" is a hardwired thing beyond software control -- if the player's hardware is broken so that it cannot detect DC power on it's own, then it cannot be made to poweroff after shutdown.

-ml

Thanks for posting that Tony, it looks like my switch is on the way out too, as last night it didn't turn off when I got home, and this morning I had to pull the player and reseat it twice before it thought it was in the car.

A part number would be great, as I think I should be able to manage the repair.

Does the power off feature still work for you (and other readers inflicted with this shen^H^H^H^Hsensor switch problem)?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this question, but I will tell you my experience:

Even though I put the player into "force DC/CAR" mode, when I turned off my ignition, the player didn't shut off.

I assume it's because the PIC that senses the ignition wire behaves differently between AC and DC mode. If the PIC thinks it's in AC mode, then it ignores the ignition wire. This is all controlled at the hardware/PIC level, so Mark's kernel code can't do anything about it.

In fact, for a moment, I toyed with the idea of using mark's new "if tuner=0 then force DC/CAR" feature as a permanent solution, and just not bother repairing the jack. Until I realized that it still wouldn't solve this particular problem.

No need,... he'll do it himself tomorrow

Not really, I don't really get hangovers to speak of. I woke up this morning wondering who'd glued my eyelids shut, but that was about the extent of it. Then again, I still feel a tad woozy, almost as if there was still some alcohol in my bloodstream. I'll be drinking a lot of liquids today.

I've also been told that tequila lacks a certain chemical (don't remember the name) that makes it less likely to give you a hangover. I don't have a lot of experience with alcohol, is 8 ounces of Cuervo Gold too much to drink in one sitting?

Oh, and by the way, Galaxy Quest is absolutely freaking hilarious when you're drunk.

"Quick, let's get out of here before one of those things kills Guy..."

"Look around you... see if you can construct a rudimentary lathe..."

I've also been told that tequila lacks a certain chemical

All your Tequila-information related needs here.

All your Tequila-information related needs here.

Cool. Thanks! Now what about my AC adapter jack part number information needs?

Or was that one already on the parts list on the BBS? I'll do a search...

Darn, I need to locate that and copy it into the FAQ...

edit: Linked site isn't responding to me at this time.

Yeh, I sort of see what you mean about Tequila hangovers, not so much of a hangover as a "being slightly dislodged from reality feeling". Best legal drug available (maybe next to Absynth - Juries out on that one ) - IMHO

8 ounces of Cuervo Gold too much to drink in one sitting?

- Well, it's a start.....

Nah, seriously I don't know about anyone else but a double (about 2oz?) hits me straight in the head, a few more on top and you're in for the best night you can't remember.

And cheers for the link Roger, nice one.

Went to Mexico for two weeks last year - NICE. Went to "Tequila", sampled lots, laughed loads and then smiled a lot before falling asleep.

Seem to recall lots of mad coach drivers taking us up the kind of mountain passes where they often loose vehicles..... but I digress

Best legal drug available (maybe next to Absynth - Juries out on that one)

Just FYI, absinthe is still illegal in the US, and most folks claim that, beyond alcohol, there are no significant psychoactive compounds in it. Combine that with the fact that it's anise flavored and I'd think you'd have to reconsider it as one of the best legal drugs.

Try these!

The Force AC/DC power mode feature (Hijack) is working fine as far as I know.

Which brings up a question, Mark...

I was hoping to use the "if tuner=x then force DC" feature for a little while to help alleviate some of the nasty effects of the AC sensor switch problem but I couldn't get it to work for me. It always seemed to come up in AC power mode.

I only tried two tuner numbers, 0 and 1. What tuner number is the default number if I've assembled Patrick's kit according to his instructions without fitting any jumpers to change the tuner number?

Is there a way I can check the tuner number from the front panel? I don't have a way to hook up a serial console or ethernet when it's car docked.

A PCATS tuner with no jumper mods shows up as ID=3.

Hijack uses "ID=0" to mean "no tuner installed".

Cheers

A PCATS tuner with no jumper mods shows up as ID=3.

Ah cool! Thank you!

This will tide me over until I can repair the AC switch.

Try Digikey part number SC1153-ND. Looks right to me and I took my player apart to make sure. It has the same measurements as the jack on mine.

Stu

Somebody tell Loren!! (for the parts list)

Somebody tell Loren!! (for the parts list)

You mean Lopan. He's the one maintaining that list...

Okay, I just ordered a couple of these. If they turn out to be wrong, Stu, I'll hold you personally responsible for the huge pile of cash they cost me.

Just FYI, absinthe is still illegal in the US

And yet it seems to be surprisingly easy to get. Of course your other points may be completely valid. Never had it myself.

-Mike

from Bitt's Absynth link -- almost no one ever drinks this liqueur neat, save for a few show-offs.

D'oh - screwed up at the first hirdle.

It tastes of anise (think double distilled Pernod here)
It has a high alcohol content (the one in our drinks cabinet is 70% - YES 70% or 140 proof)
You're psychologically prepared to be be mentally expanded before drinking it

No wonder it makes you talk crap for hours

....and blitz, that is a MAD link,.... "Tequila flavoured candy, WITH WORM" - WTF??

The local off-license near me actually sells Absinthe. Looks kind of like green fairy liquid... (It's a brand of washing up liquid that is green)

You think tequila candy + worm is bad? Go look at Cybercandy...

- Trevor

Looks kind of like green fairy liquid...

There's a great scene with that Absinthe fairy in Moulin Rouge (one of my favorite films)...

I need one of these too. Any chance you could shove one in an envelope and mail it to the UK, in exchange for a few dollars paypal'd in your general direction?

(I would order from DigiKey, but they need a minimum £100 order to ship to the UK )

It's Switchcraft part number RAPC722. Allied Electronics has it too, but I'm not sure about any minimum order policies to the UK, but here in the U.S. the min. order is $25, I believe.

Tony, be sure to let us know how the jack fits.

Stu

Hmm...

Positives:
Gets you drunk
Possibly psychoactive

Negatives:
Expensive
Tastes like anise (yechh)

Oh well. Guess I'll stick to good ol' fashioned beer and assorted liquors for the time being.

Thank you, thank you!

For anyone else who is interested, RS Electronics in the UK sell it - stock number 286-8779.

Last time I used them, they had no minimum order, and a very respectable postage cost.

Looks like I'm going to need one too. I'm interested to see if it works for Tony.

It is intermittent with mine, I see it about once a week or so. Although I'm thinking I should just fix it anyway.

It is intermittent with mine, I see it about once a week or so. Although I'm thinking I should just fix it anyway.

Yeah, that's what's happening with me, too.

The "if tuner=3, force DC/Car" feature of Hijack is really working well at alleviating the bulk of the problem, so much so that I'm beginning to debate fixing it at all. Maybe I'll do it in the interest of verifying the digikey part number.

Thanks everyone, for the part numbers, and thanks Mark, for the "If tuner=x" feature in Hijack. I have updated the FAQ entry with these details.

Good!

I think you are the first person to need/try this feature out and report back!

Thanks!

I use the "If tuner=x" feature to let Tempest (my primary empeg) know when it is sitting at home in my selfbuilt cage using the car docking sled. I loose the switch on the ignition sense but that's not a big deal compared to having separate volume settings et cetera. Works great, thank you Mark.

No no no - cheap(ish) and as it is sold in Peckhams, which has a midnight licence, it's dead easy to get. They have 3 different Absinthes (from different countries, I think)
It tastes okay - and tastes much better after the first one. I'd be astonished if you could get any effect like the original, highly psychoactive absinthe these days.

I can't remember the name of the cocktail, but you can get a layered drink of sambuca, goldshlager and absinthe which really does the job!!

original, highly psychoactive absinthe

If you read that article I posted above, it's highly unlikely that absinthe ever had any of the properties for which it was banned.

Odd. I just upgraded from 2.0b13 to 2.0final, and my AC sensor switch stopped working as well.

It may just be me, but it seems like there's a sudden increase with apparent AC sensor switch failures coinciding with the installation of 2.0 final.


tfabris, I also installed hijack, and have it correctly identifying my tuner and switching to DC mode, but my player won't turn off when I turn the car off, either.


Is it remotely possible there's a bug in 2.0-final that causes this behavior? I'm tempted to revert to 2.0b13 and see if the problem corrects itself.

Is it remotely possible there's a bug in 2.0-final that causes this behavior? I'm tempted to revert to 2.0b13 and see if the problem corrects itself.

No. The problem is purely mechanical, and completely unrelated to software.

Remember that many people had the problem long before that software version, and many people (including myself) ran 2.0 final for quite a while before the problem came up.

The fact that it happened to you when you installed 2.0 final was a complete coincidence.

The datasheet on the jack states that it is rated at 5000 insertions, so some of them are just wearing out.

Stu

The datasheet on the jack states that it is rated at 5000 insertions,

Damn, Ron Jeremy isn't even rated that high.

I was going to disagree, but it turns out that he's only listed in 1812 (probably NSFW) movies right now. Even though that's bound to miss a few here and there (especially earlier ones, I'd imagine), a ratio of more than two ... performances ... per film doesn't get you there. And many of those are bound to be clips from others.

/me reveals too much of one of his pastimes.

/me reveals too much of one of his pastimes.

Oh yeah, the secret's out: men like porn.

"Only 1812..." Yeah, what a slacker.

Thanks Tony.

So, looking at the digikey part, it's a mechanical problem? I.e., there's a switch in the jack itself?

I don't have my sled and AC adapter handy, but I assume they have slightly different plugs, shaped to trip the switch one way or the other?

I'm considering ordering the part as well.

but I assume they have slightly different plugs, shaped to trip the switch one way or the other?

No, just plug or no plug. It checks if the plug in the barrel connector is "activated" (by an inserted plug) or not - probably by checking if the leaf switch is grounded or not.

/Michael

We have literally thousands of these spare, though no easy way to ship them... given they're very cheap standard parts, it's frustrating not to be able to offer to send them out to people!

Hugo

Here's a not-so-novel idea. Grab a whole slew of them and bring them to a few of the empeg meets. Then hand them out to everyone, and they'll be in common supply throughout the community. Chances are when someone needs one, there will be someone in their country (or at least close enough) that won't mind sending one their way.

Good idea. Now all the remains to do is to ensure that I don't forget

Hugo

Don't have any bright ideas to solve that problem. If I did, I'd probably have done much better in school.

Yeah. As it is, you only have that measly Master's Degree.

Good point. I guess my GPA isn't printed anywhere on either of my diplomas.

Yeah, bring a bunch to Amersfoort -- I can probably take a handful of them with me on my journey home.

Cheers

Damn, Ron Jeremy isn't even rated that high.

Well, we'll find out how many insertions the DigiKey part lasts for. I just got the parts in today and did the replacement job. Everything went smoothly.

Well, as smoothly as it could have. It's time consuming to completely dismantle the player like that, and it takes some care to desolder the old part. And getting everything nicely put back together with the display board and the fascia nice and straight takes a while. The actual installation of the new part took only seconds.

Anyway it works now, the Digikey replacement part number was exactly right. Thanks, Stu!

You're welcome! Now just update the FAQ to reflect your findings.

Stu

I did before I made the post.

I read it, but not close enough! I see now that it says all part numbers except Digikey are unverified. Missed that when I made the post. Thanks Tony!

Stu

Thanks, Tony.

I thought I'd follow up, because I FIXED IT!

I used a tool that looks like a dental pick (though I'm fairly sure it wasn't, being in our electronics lab at work), and carefully inserted it between the metal "tongue" visible in the jack and the inside side of the jack, then twisted. In effect, this lifted the tongue a bit, as well as pushed it away from the side of the jack.

The insertion point was near the highest point of the tongue, though I tried to work the tongue all along its length.

I made sure to do this on both sides of the tongue, as the left side seemed quite a bit closer to the side of the jack than the right.

After a few minutes of this "Fun With Levers!" exercise, the player was correctly distinguishing between home (AC) and car (no AC).

It seems that the failure mode, at least for my jack, was a stuck tongue. It didn't seem to be broken or to have lost its "springiness", so perhaps there's a bit of a design flaw in these parts that allows the tongue to get stuck in the "down" (i.e., AC plug inserted) position?

That, or repeated use of the plug causes the tongue to deviate enough from its normal non-insertion position that it's always in contact with the plate beneath it?

Either way, this was a dead-simple fix that didn't require opening the unit, and runs very little risk of breaking anything (unless you're hideously strong or have a tool that provides you with excellent leverage, you won't even see any visible give in the tongue while prying it up.)

Hope this helps someone else.

I see what you're saying, but I'll bet you it starts to fail again within a couple of weeks.

Perhaps. However, I almost never use the AC outlet, and I'd suspect a repeat failure would require me to use the jack again. So, for now, I'm happy.

But if it does become a problem again, I now know that the Digikey part works. Thanks for playing guinea pig for us!

I find the replacement jack to be slightly looser fitting than the original jack.

Stu

I find the replacement jack to be slightly looser fitting than the original jack.

Maybe that will translate into a longer MTBF?

In reply to:

---

Maybe that will translate into a longer MTBF?

---

Hope so. I did the repair on the player in this thread. The datasheet on the new part specifies life as "5000 cycles," rather than insertions as I had mentioned before. The old and new parts appear to be of different origin, so no way of know how the old one was rated.

Stu

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I was hoping for some advice on how to proceed about testing for this problem. I have a MkII (not a) player that I'm installing in my fiance's 98 Nissan Altima (getting married next month, so I have to show some kind of committment. ) I finished wiring the harness and after double and triple checking the wires, went out to try it in the car. When I inserted the player, however, it started to boot, then made a little popping noise and the drives spun down for a moment and spun back up. But then the player started and worked fine. Ever since then, however, my player has been stuck in AC mode. I can force DC mode with Hijack, but otherwise it is always AC. I opened it up and didn't see or smell anything strange, but I really don't know what to look for. I guess what I'm wanting to know is if the AC sensor switch happened to screw up right before the install, or if I've popped a fuse somewhere. The player continues to work fine in my car and in the MLord docking station, but must be forced into DC mode in either location. Any help as to diagnosing the exact problem would be greatly appreciated.

install notes:
This is my 4th empeg install and I'm pretty sure it's wired correctly. All the connections are soldered with heat-shrink and tested for continuity. It's a very simple install, just running the empeg into the AUX-in on the existing Pioneer HU. The wiring for the pioneer unit and the empeg run into a factory harness adapter from Crutchfield and plug into the factory plugs. I didn't test the pins on the sled for voltage levels, but the Pioneer unit is working fine off the same power wires.

Since I don't have a schematic, I don't know how the Empeg is wired, but if you are up to it, you can eliminate the switch from the equation by stripping the unit down to the bare board and use a multimeter to test various continuities between the three pins on the jack. If they change when you plug the power supply in (in an unpowered state) then chances are the jack is still good.

Stu

Ah...thanks...will try that tonight

The easiest way to test would be to use logoedit to place 2 obviously different boot logos on the player for the 2 modes, and then to power up the player a bunch of times. If you have any failures in the first ten then it's suspect. If you have multiple failures in the first twenty then I'd say it's on it's way out. You'll know if it's completely gone.
The only problem with this (or any other test for that matter) is that it doesn't really work to prove that the switch is still 100% good. Sure, if you got through 49 without any failures then you'd have to think so. But that still wouldn't preclude the switch getting it wrong 2% of the time. Furthermore, you've just eaten 1% of the switchs expected lifetime just to test.
I think that the best that you can do is to get an _inclination_ of whether the switch is good, failing or failed, and decide then whether to live with that inclination or to replace the switch. Testing further just increases the risk of failure.

He's already established it doesn't sense properly- no need for the logoedit. He was asking if the switch was at fault or something else, like a fuse somewhere in the player in the circuitry that works with the switch.

Stu

Hmm. Not enough coffee obviously.

The easiest way to test would be to use logoedit to place 2 obviously different boot logos on the player for the 2 modes

Sort of like the two logos that are built-in to the logo editor to appear by default when the app starts?

Quote:

For anyone else who is interested, RS Electronics in the UK sell it - stock number 286-8779.

I can verify that this part number is compatible with the Empeg board layout. The board holes need to be thoroughly cleaned of solder using flux and solder braid prior to fitting the component (which is currently supplied to RS by SWC).

The leaf switch is much more springy than the original part, so the tactile feel of inserting and removing the power plug is quite different after the repair.

I did the work while I was installing my Eutronix illumination kit. Unfortunately, it didn't fix the symptoms and after some diagnostics work, it looks like I am in the market for an "A6" diode