Swapping MkIIa board into MkII case

Is there any reason i couldn't put a MkIIa motherboard into a MkII case, keeping the original MkII screen and harnesses? Since i've got 70GB on my MKII, the drives are ALWAYS spun up and it's overheating regularly on trips of half an hour or more. It needs more RAM. And until the extra RAM hack is worked out, i need a quick fix.

Pretty sure i know the answer to this, but just wanna make sure before i do it.

Okay. Obvious question here but couldn't you just move the drives over instead?

Okay. Obvious question here but couldn't you just move the drives over instead?

I believe he also wants the display board assembly from the 2A because it's got the newer type of rotary encoder.

What you want to do, Loren, is do-able I think. The display boards are meant to be interchangeable. My only problem is... I don't think the extra RAM is going to make a difference in the temperature. There's not going to be a huge difference in spin-up times. It will only be slight, not enough to make a thermal difference.

I think it might be time for the big step. Go see if WeirdStuff still has that big styrofoam crate full of tiny fans.

No. He wants to keep the old display and stuff, for whatever reason. And it's not going to affect the spinup, but, rather, keep the drive from spinning all the time by increasing the amount of cache available.

Here's why i think it will make a difference: The same drive configuration, two 40 gb drives, has been in the WRX since i installed the empeg, no change there. I did get overheating, but once i drilled vent holes into the pocket above the empeg, no more overheating. It's been fine for months that way with daily use. Then last week i uploaded another 30 gigs or so that i'd been retagging and now the drives are literally ALWAYS spun up according to the disk activity icon. So after half an hour it gets overheated. The drives being spun down at all seemed to help.

And as for why i don't just use the MkIIa... the way i have my sled installed, i can't even fit a MkIIa into it. It's bolted in from the side and is one of the coated black sleds. Despite the size of the empegs supposedly being exactly the same, i can tell you from experience they definitely are not. My MkII slides in fine with plenty of room, but the MkIIa won't go pas the first sled nipple... which can't be bent out due to the mounting bracket in the WRX. Should be an easy swap so i'll give it a try before i venture into fan world. Unless i have one... *me goes digging in my junk computer box*

Thanks!

To be honest, I am kind of curious why the drives are not spinning down. Do you have that disabled through hijack? Have you uploaded different filetypes (flac)? Adding more music should not change drive behavior like that.

Wish i knew. I haven't disabled it, and i'm still running good old VBR MP3s. I just figured the database was taking up all the RAM. I'm still running 2.0Final

Hmmm... Something sounds a bit strange. Try manually fsck-ing the drives. Also, try going into your config.ini and verify your settings. See what kind of memory reserve you have, any applications that are loaded that may be logging or keeping the drives spinning. I would almost recommend backing up your existing config.ini and putting a clean one in its place (not loading any additional software or memory tweaks) just to see if it makes a difference. Also try inserting a forced spindown time to see if it changes things.

Doing all of the above now...

Definitely nothing weird in the config.ini:

[hijack]
khttpd_root_index=/drive0/opt/khttpd/charcoalgray99/index.html
[output]
notify=1
[hush]
hushpercent=20
[display]
play_count=1
visual_names=1
caching=1
[volumecap]
enabled=0
[kenwood]
disabled=0
[ramp]
disabled=0
[menu]
quit=0
sort_playlist=0
[tuner]
region=us
[controls]
stalk_side=none
[Options]
Name=emp3g
[User Info]
Email=loren@*******.com
Phone=415-*******
Name=Loren Cox
[Network]
;@HOME DHCP=0
;@WORK DHCP=1
Gateway=192.168.1.1
Netmask=255.255.255.0
IPAddress=192.168.1.20
DHCP=0
[sense]
muteaction=1
mute=1
[power]
off_timeout=60000
[aux]
source=
title=
artist=
[synchronise]
seq_num=88
[wendy]
flag_amount=0
[custom]
wendy=
[searches]
amount=0
[VisualFavourites_AM]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_AUX]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_DSP]
count=0
[VisualFavourites_FM]
count=0
[shuffle]
deduplicate=0

Running fsck...

K.... seems that i've found something. I plugged er up to the serial and i'm getting this message after reboot:

Vcb: 0x4058a000
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-12)
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)
spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)
.....ad nauseum....

any ideas?

a quick search shows Roger saying these aren't anything important. Running fsck now.

a quick search shows Roger saying these aren't anything important.

Yeah, except your numbers are negative. In other words, the cache is telling you something you already know: the database is taking up so much memory that there isn't enough cache left ever to spin down.

Out of interest, how big is your database file (ls -l /empeg/var)?

Peter

I'll check as soon as this fsck is over... could be a while... or is it okay to interupt an fsck?

edit: okay, fsck done, with this result on the first drive:

/dev/hda4: 18643/304448 files (23.3% non-contiguous), 30281113/38965657 blocks

and ls -l /empeg/var results in:

lrwxrwxrwx    1 0        220            13 Apr  1  2003 /empeg/var -> ../drive0/var

ls -al /drive0/var

empeg:/empeg/bin# ls -al /drive0/var
ls: /drive0/var: No such file or directory

looks like it needs to be rebuilt eh?

Huh???

Okay... that is weird... Oh, did you unmount the drives to fsck them? Try first doing "rom" and "ro". Reboot. Go back to shell. "ls -al /drive0/var"...

Yeah, just realized i gotta finish the fsck first =] brb...

So you know, what I (and probably Roger also) am looking for is something that looks abnormal with one of your database files. Something that would distort the player application and make the database image in memory so large that it could not possibly spin down the drives.

For reference, on my player (with lots and lots of FIDS), my files are:

q

Restored terminal settings

Remounting first music partition read-only

Remounting second music partition read-only

Player exited normally: 0

Switching to shell-player loop

Starting bash.

empeg:/empeg/bin#

empeg:/empeg/bin# ls -al /drive0/var

total 4255

drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         1024 Feb 12 10:58 .

drwxr-xr-x    6 root     root         1024 Feb  4 10:45 ..

-rw-------    1 root     root         1594 Dec 21 14:16 config.ini

-rw-rw-r--    1 root     root      4201145 Feb 12 10:57 database

-rw-rw-r--    1 root     root       131836 Feb 12 10:58 playlists

-rw-rw-r--    1 root     root          376 Feb 12 10:57 tags

empeg:/empeg/bin#

Granted, yours will not be the exact same size, but if they look significantly bigger, or the directory structure looks different, you may want to try to manually rebuild the databases.

Hm...... a database of 70gigs of music is filling the MKII ram, but Paul's database of 160gig isn't filling the MKIIa ram? So that few meg ram difference DOES matter? Or are Paul's drives spun up all the time? And is his player overheating because of it?

And to reply to an earlier post in the thread re: flac and alternative file types: Would it keep the drives spun up to play FLAC or WAV? I'm assuming yes because it's a bit hard to cache an 80 meg song in 16 meg ram.

Hm...... a database of 70gigs of music is filling the MKII ram, but Paul's database of 160gig isn't filling the MKIIa ram?

Well, that is the suspected cause. Still unproven. Just a theory.

So that few meg ram difference DOES matter?

The memory does help quite a bit.

Or are Paul's drives spun up all the time? And is his player overheating because of it?

Not that I know of, on both counts.

And to reply to an earlier post in the thread re: flac and alternative file types: Would it keep the drives spun up to play FLAC or WAV? I'm assuming yes because it's a bit hard to cache an 80 meg song in 16 meg ram.

Exactly. Since you need more data per second, you cannot effectively cache that kind of file as easily. Or perhaps, you can cache it, but you burn through it so quickly that it really doesn't help.

empeg:/empeg/bin# ls -lah /drive0/var

total 3.1M

drwxr-xr-x    3 0        0            1.0k Jul  2 04:41 .

drwxr-xr-x    6 0        0            1.0k May 11  2035 ..

-rw-r--r--    1 0        0             810 Jul  2 04:41 config.ini

-rw-r--r--    1 0        0            3.0M Jul  2 04:41 database

-rwxr-xr-x    1 0        0             25k Mar 10  2002 date

-rwxr-xr-x    1 0        0            4.4k Mar 10  2002 pcmplay

-rw-r--r--    1 0        0             75k Jul  2 04:41 playlists

-rwxr-xr-x    1 0        0            3.7k Mar 10  2002 setvol

-rw-r--r--    1 0        0             417 Jul  2 04:41 tags

drwxr-xr-x    2 0        0            2.0k Mar 10  2002 tts

-rwxr-xr-x    1 0        0            2.5k Mar 10  2002 ttsclock

wonder if that old tts stuff is doing it. I can just nuke this whole directory right? It'll all get rebuilt?

okay... Nothing immediately catches my attention there...

In your config.ini, in the display section, you have caching=1. I am not familiar with that option, and I am looking it up. What does this do?

Rebuilding the database after deleting all the TTS stuff.

no idea about the caching=1 thing... don't recall adding that one.

I believe that just enables the disk activity icon... I think...

I found it. Basically the option that turns on the display of disk activity...

One thought (back to the original subject). If your player is running that hot (granted, with the drives spinning all the time) you may still want to install a cooling fan. Just to be safe.

okay... databases have been rebuilt, and both drives fscked.

Rebooted and still getting this:

Vcb: 0x4058a000

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-12)

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)

  spindown_chunk_cache_runner.cpp: 294:Filling up space (-15)

Any other ideas?? I'm going to run a ram check...

Which kernel are you running? Default? Hijack? Custom?

hijack 363 v2final

Error after ram test:

tplayer(13): memory violation at pc=0x00000000, lr=0x020caf3c (bad address=0x000

00000, code 2)

pc : [<00000000>]    lr : [<020caf3c>]

sp : 00000000  ip : bf1ffac0  fp : 00000000

r10: 00000000  r9 : 00000000  r8 : 00000000

r7 : 00000000  r6 : 00000000  r5 : 00000000  r4 : 00000000

r3 : 00000000  r2 : 00000000  r1 : 00000001  r0 : 00000001

Flags: nzCv  IRQs on  FIQs on  Mode USER_32  Segment user

Control: D036517D  Table: D036517D  DAC: 00000015

that doesn't look good

Perhaps a re-flash of the kernel? Other than that, I am at a loss.

Well, i'm off to get a kiteboarding session in if the thermals end up kicking in for the evening... so i'll try a kernal reflash and update when i get back. Thanks for your help!!!

Reflashed kernal to latest hijack... same thing. Bad RAM???

edit: ahhh dammit. i just noticed this in the boot log:
Could not find CS4231A (version=80)

sonofa. Same problem mvigneau had? Was that ever resolved? The thread on it just sorta ends.

Yes, he describes the long sordid tale here.

Argh. Thanks for that link... but seems like i'm up a creek. If i read that right, it was an ethernet chip failure of somesort... but i'm not seeing any ethernet problems. Mark (nudge nudge) any ideas?

Question: other than the unit getting hot, do you notice any problems playing music back? Any other symptoms?

Send me your board (just the mainboard, nothing else), Loren, and I'll hack away at it. It could really be just about anything on the peripheral bus that gives that behaviour. I can probably isolate the fault with some effort, but note that I don't have the right equipment/skill to replace the quad flat packs here -- if it comes to that, you'll need to farm it out elsewhere (or perhaps it will motivate me to get a hot air station for such jobs..).

Cheers

Any other symptoms?

It is fidgety... by which i mean it will sometimes stutter when coming back from a pause or take a long time to start playing after a pause, but those are symptoms of it having to read from disk more than anything. Other than that it just runs hot. Everything else seems to function fine.

Mark, is there anything i can look for or trace with a multimeter myself before i ship the mainboard off? I'm reasonably competant around components. Is there any way to check via software how much RAM it's able to use after bootup to determine if it is indeed a bad chip?

Looks like i'll be testing the MkIIa board swap out of necessity! =]

Sorry to hear about the problems with your MK2. I know this isn't going to solve your problem, but it won't hurt your empeg any more than it already is.

I completely remove all comments fields from my ID3 tags in emplode. The comments field uses RAM on the player, so what better way to free up our precious memory then to remove all comments tagged in mp3's

I hope the lord will be able to fix your empeg, it’s really painful when we read about hurting empegs

'cause i use the comments extensively to list artist's labels. In fact that was one of the main reasons for my mass retagging. =]

I'd leave those fields off the empeg, leave them on your PC, but it’s really isn't necessary to track that in the empeg database.

Whenever I need to lookup the detailed stats on an album, I query CD Universe

or maybe, remove the comments from all the tracks, and put the record label in the playlist ID3 tag, that way you only have it once in memory, and not multiple times for each track in the playlist?

Either way, with 12mb of memory, and a 70gb drive of MP3’s. It’s going to run into memory problems I’d think. I remember the empeg guys saying they didn’t use anything over a 30gb drive in their personal empegs.

Are the visuals working -- in particular the various spectrometer ones ?

The cs4231a chip is required to make those work from tuner/aux, but not from mp3 playback. Can you try tuner/aux?

Since the hard drive is working, we know it's not a simple stuck data line like the previous bad player I diagnosed. And you say ethernet is working, so that's good. How about USB?

If USB is good, and tuner/aux visuals don't work (the bar graphs and spectro ones), then the cs4231a *really* is bad, so no need to send me the board.

Cheers

Okay lets get this back on topic can you stick a Mk2a board in a mk2 case

reason the mk2 case is a nicer grade of stainless and i want to polish it.

K, Mark, i tested the visuals and they definitely work fine with the tuner... so looks like the chip isn't bad after all. argh.

Gotta try out USB.

You can. I built half a dozen hybrid Mk2/Mk2a units which were Mk2a metalwork with Mk2 boards in them, so you should be able to do it the other way around.

Remember to be careful when removing the display and mainboards - I'm fairly sure there's videos of me doing it in the FAQ.

Remember to be careful when removing the display and mainboards - I'm fairly sure there's videos of me doing it in the FAQ.

Yup, in both the drive upgrade guide and here.

Sweet, thanks for the confirmation. Now that i think about it... i have one of those hybrids in my closet that Rob sold me a ways back for Kelly. Totally forgot about that.

Guess i'll go ahead and do the swap until i can figure out this "bad chip" error.

Digging up this thread. Finally remembered to take the 2 minutes it took to check USB on this MKII and it it working fine. Any other diagnostics advice on this "bad chip"? I want to get this one working well again before i do a case swap. It is continually overheating due to the drives being spun up all the time.

--maybe i should start a new thread...

So, as a conclusion to this thread and the other I started here about my drives never spinning down... yesterday I did the swap. I put my MkIIa board and display in the MkII case and visa versa. Why you ask? Because I hate the feel of the MkIIa metal, and because it is slightly larger than the MkII case and won't fit in my car sled because the side tabs can't be bent out due to being blocked by mounting brackets. It also works out nicely that I can now use my smoke buttons (thanks Paul!!).

Result: Awesome. I now have about 7GB free on my 80GB and the drives spin down just fine! I must've had a bad RAM chip on the MkII after all, or I guess 4 more MB really does make a difference. I still plan on adding the fan controller and fan, and probably more RAM once it's usable by the player.

Here's some disassembly porn:

I tried to do this a few weeks ago and found that the MkIIa motherboard screwholes didn't quote line up with the MkII threads. Not much, but enough that I'd have had to enlarge the holes on the MkIIa motherboard, which I didn't want to do. Did you encounter that problem?

Hmm... Nope. One of the screws took a little bit of effort, but they all went in without having to enlarge the holes on the board. I was scared of that too, but it seemed to work fine. You probably did it this way, but if not, try only slightly threading each screw so the board is loose and you'll have some room to wiggle before you tighten them down. Oh, and don't swap the screws, use the MkII screws on the MkII case. etc...

Is that a tech support sphere I see hiding in that little white box? Nice photo.

hahah... nice eye. I was wondering if anyone would catch it.