High Temperature

Hello all,

As you know we have more control over our Empeg since Mark Lord Alias "Hyper Mark" did develop the Hijack application.

So, today I had a longer trip to drive with my car. Here in Switzerland we have almost winter (It's snowing right now). This means this morning it was about 0C / 34F.

Of course I had to put on my heating on almost to the maximum and step 2/4. After an hour (I was only listening radio) the alarm from the "High Temperature Warning" was peeping. My device had more than 55C/131F.

So what I have todo now? Shutdown my Empeg or driving with my thick winter jacket?

I did also try to change the output form the worm air to the windows. But it does not come down with the temperature.

Maybe nowbody did realize this until today, that 55C/131F is not really difficult to reach!

If the heating vents on your car run close to the radio, then yes it can be a problem.

Yes it is close to the radio! See the pic!

But in the summer I can use the air conditioning to cool down! So I have definitly buy a good winter jacket! Otherwise I will have a very bad MTBF!

I am wondering if somebody else have the same.

But I think there are many cars with the same buildup!

Well, as I'm sitting here by the computer with the empeg beside me (just got around to install the hijack stuff - very neat!) the temperature reading says 45C - and I know that the empeg has been very much hotter pulling it from the car. My center vents also pass right above the DIN slots. Will be interesting what the temp will be in the car tomorrow morning - expecting -8C/18F in the morning, block and interior heater will warm it up though...

/Michael

Michael,

I have the same temperature 45C here in my home office because of the same reason.

Waiting of V63.......

bye

I wonder what the actual operating temperatures are for the disks when mounted in laptops... Most of the laptops I've tried have definately been on the 'bit too warm to comfortably sit in my lap...' side.

/Michael

If you ask me, the temperature sensor reads about 5degC high. Possibly this is from running it from the 3.3v rail, maybe there is noise on the PSU, whatever. Anyone got an accurate thermometer to check it with? (ie, leave empeg unplugged overnight to got it to room temperature, boot it and quickly check temperature reading displayed against real temperature).

Hugo

I don't have an accurate thermometer, but I just wanted to say:

I got back from a very long trip (four legs, total driving time approx 20 hours), and I had the empeg running the whole time with Mlord's high-temp warning active. I was running the heater in the car (and the vents run fairly close to the empeg). It never got hot enough to trigger the alarm. I was actually quite happy about that.

I have no clue as to how accurate the temp probe of my multimeter is,
but I've unplugged the empeg and put the proe on top of the drive cable.

Will boot it tomorrow morning and see what multimeter and empeg says.

/Michael

Ahhhh but what is it set at? 190`F?
I don't have my empeg here to see what the highest setting can be

My device had more than 55C/131F.

I know here where I live that in the summer mine has been much higher than that left in the car all day at work in the sun in a black vehicle outside temps near 100`F. I didn't have the temp hack to show how much.

BTW-the unit was hot to the touch, I'm aware that the inside could've been cooler.

OK, after sitting on my desk during the night (turned off) the multimeter said 21C, and the empeg immediately after boot 24C. I believe 21C to be closer to the truth, as it sure didn't feel like 24C in the room...

In the car, with the heat and fan on max, everything going out the central vents just above the empeg, I couldn't get it to read above 31C.
But when I pulled it from the sled, it was definately warmer to the touch (I'd say hot, but not overly or extremely) than it was last night, sitting by the computer....

Go figure.

/Michael

Maybe it's a little refresh bug from the Hijack!

Could be...

As I turned on the heat/air it quite quickly (inside 2 minutes) jumped from 24C to 29C.
After about 5 minutes it jumped to 31C. At this point I was entering and exiting the Hijack menus, checking the temperature about once every minute.

Maybe I should bring the cig.lighter adaptor next time, so I can hold it out the window while driving - that should cool it drastically as it was -9C here as I drove to work.

/Michael

Ha! Cold air intake? Go to Home Depot and get AC ducting, put a little air scoop under the car to direct are onto the empeg. :-D

Calvin

put a little air scoop under the car to direct are onto the empeg

I don't think the empeg is built for water cooling by flooding

Seriously though, I had the MkI for more than a year in the same car without any problem. It's been quite hot sometimes, especially after long drives in hot & sunny weather (not all that common here though )
Now, seeing a temp readout, we have gotten something new to worry about...

As to Home Depot, that'd be a long trip as I'm in Sweden
But I did play with the thought of adding some alu flex tubing to redirect a bit of the AC'd air to the empeg. But the interior of the dash isn't exactly spacious, so getting it even close would be very hard. Will have to settle for running the cold air through the center vents...

/Michael

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes the thermometer appears to stop updating.. the temperature reading remains constant, while the actual real temperature is much higher. This problem disappears after a power cycle or reboot. That's why I have the hijack code redo the initherm every minute or so, but I'm not sure if that has cured it or not..

Anyone else see this with v62 / v63 ?

-ml

>If you ask me, the temperature sensor reads about 5degC high

Yeah, on a cold start here it generally shows 23C, in a room that is probably around 19C ambient. Goes up fast after that. I may insert an adjustment into hijack to just subtract perhaps 4C from the reading, maybe with a user-override possible from config.ini

-ml

Okay, the latest (v64/v65) versions of hijack now subtract -4C from all temperature readings. If you want a different correction value, then supply your own in config.ini:

[hijack]

temperature_correction=-3

Cheers!

As to Home Depot, that'd be a long trip as I'm in Sweden

Go to IKEA and buy something from the kitchen section. :) Maybe they should start selling an empeg cooler?

I think it may be a good idea to start reading the other "chilling" thread about mounting a fan. It's possible to mount a small fan inside the empeg or even a slightly larger one to the sled.

Some of the laptop prototypes I use here at work have really nice, low noise, small fans in them. I'll look at a couple of them next week to see if I can get an manufacturer or part number info.

Bruno

Go to IKEA and buy something from the kitchen section. :) Maybe they should start selling an empeg cooler?

IKEA doesn't really have that much stuff for the DIY'er, they're more into just assemble it yourself - with a scew or two short
One of the other cars that I looked at before buying the Polo had a cooled (by the AC) compartment for a soda can or two - maybe I should have gotten that one and mounted the empeg there... Seriously though, I'm not all that worried about overheating the empeg. And frost bite is covered by bringing it in from the car with me, and electric heaters for the car - motor block and interior - nice and toasty even on -20C days

/Michael

But what did you have the high temp set at?

I just installed my unit into the Saturn last night. Today, went on a rather long drive, and hijack reported the temperature at 58C/136F, which is quite upsetting to me. And that's with only one drive installed.

Can anyone give an idea of what is too high? I believe I can mount a fan above my setup to help cool.

rjf&

That tallies with the kind of temperatures I'm getting in mine. I've mentioned it in another thread somewhere. I'm going to try to install a small fan inside the Empeg case to keep it a bit cooler.

I just installed my unit into the Saturn last night. Today, went on a rather long drive, and hijack reported the temperature at 58C/136F

But are we sure that it is really running that warm? I mean, how accurate is the sensor? Is it possible that the sensor is reporting a higher temperature than really exists?

58C/136F is hot enough that you would not be able to place your hand flat on something that temperature and hold it there. I wouldn't think the insides would be a lot warmer than the top of the case... My case has only ever gotten too hot to hold my hand on one time, and that was in my bikempeg installation, with the sun shining directly on it for several hours (riding in a parade with the local bicycle club) at very low speeds. I think it got hotter from the sun than it did from the operation of its electronics.

Does anybody have one of those laser gun temperature readers that mechanics use?

tanstaafl.

Does anybody have one of those laser gun temperature readers that mechanics use?

Hmmm, the place I used to work for has one... I think I'll swing by and try it...

/Michael

But are we sure that it is really running that warm? I mean, how accurate is the sensor? Is it possible that the sensor is reporting a higher temperature than really exists?

I am not particularly concerned that the ambient temperature is high, it is clearly not 136F, and the case I would guess is around 110F, not too bad.

But if the component which houses the sensor is 136F, and this is certainly possible, it may be that other components (CPU, memory, etc) are experiencing high temperature as well, which will certainly increase the likelihood of component failure.

rjf&

I've checked the actual temperature of the drive casings inside my player and the temperature I recorded was only 1 deg C below that which was displayed by Vital Signs (44C vs 43C). I've also checked that the digital thermometer I used is calibrated correctly - within 0.2C @ 100C. I ordered a fan today from RS which I hope will fit inside the casing. If you've read this thread then you'll know that I had my player alarming out at 57C on just a 2 hr journey.

0c? that's short-sleve weather.. oh wait.. I'm in minnesota ;)

it's 6c today, almost balmy

it's 6c today, almost balmy

Almost balmy? It's -34c right now where I am. You're in the banana belt. Go outside and feed your tropical fish or something, why don'cha?

tanstaafl.

I finally got around to putting a fan in my empeg.

I purchased the fan from RadioShack. It has the same dimensions as the one people have talked about here, but is cheaper (not a bearing fan). It is 12v.

It is quite loud at the full 12v, so I threw in an 82ohm resistor to slow it up a bit. Even now, when the unit is on my desk, the fan noise is obvious. Doesn't bother me though.

I attached the fan with double sided tape, in the designed position. It was tough to reassemble the unit, but with care it can be done. If only the mounting holes were a mere .5 cm back.

On the desktop, the unit would normally reach 114F (46C). With the fan, it never rose above 85F (29C). Nice.

The next day, I had the perfect chance to test it, as we drove to Mount hood and back (a good 3 hours in the car).

Previously, the unit would easily attain a temperature of around 142F (61C) within an hour of being on (fyi, it only has a single drive inside).

For the trip, I never saw the temp rise above 122F (50C) -- and the car heater was on the whole time. The fan noise was not noticeable while in the car.

I'd rather see the temp stick around 100F (38C), but oh well. Dropping 20F (11C) off is quite welcome.

Cheers,
rjf&

I have a question for all these people putting fans in their players.

What about magnetism? Don't these fans generate a small magnetic field around the fan motors? And doesn't the design of the cooling holes place the fan precariously over the magnetically-sensitive disk drives?

Hi.

Doesn't the motor that drives the disk also create a magnetic field?
Really, I don't think that would be a problem.

cu,
sven

I have an interesting perspective on this. I live within 50 feet of several sets of high tension, extremely high voltage (order of 600K volts) power lines.

Thus, I live in an extremely powerful magnetic field. I have to run all my computer monitors at 60Hz in order to avoid the affects of the field on standard CRT displays -- running at other refresh rates you can see extreme deflection of the picture.

I have lived like this for 3 years. Never lost a harddrive or floppy.

The field the fan throws off is infentesimal compared to the one I live in, I would guess.

rjf&

I have to run all my computer monitors at 60Hz ... I have lived like this for 3 years. Never lost a harddrive or floppy.

Of course, you now subsist on Visine and wear 3-inch thick glasses.

Yes. It's heinous -- 60hz refresh rates. But, the good news is, the house is sold, and I won't make the same mistake twice ;-)

rjf&

I used to work tech support for Nokia monitors. You'd be surprised (or not) at how many people called up complaining that since they got their new monitor and now their eyes were burning. Often, they were running at 56Hz interlaced. Oddly, this was back when Nokia was making sorta premium monitors and those folks had just paid for that premium. Folks don't even know what they're paying for.

I'm sure the magnetic field that these fans produce is far too small to be of any significance to the hdd(s). After all the Empeg team did toy with the idea of installing a fan (hence the holes in the lid). I think the reason they didn't go ahead was only because they felt that the player didn't need it and not for any risk from the magnetic field produced by the fan. As a little side note if you dismantle a dead (or alive for that matter if you're feeling sadistic) hard drive you'll find some Neodymium Iron Boron magnets which are extremely strong (and fragile). These are used to create a field that the head positioning coil can react against. Although these magnets are mostly enclosed in a Steel cage I'm sure some of the magnetic field leaks out and that this leakage amounts to more than the fan could ever produce. This is only my assumption though. There are some interesting experiments you can do with these magnets (most of which I haven't tried myself). One thing I have tried is to get two Aluminium plates spaced apart about 6mm to form a kind of hollow sandwich and drop one of these magnets through the gap. It seems like it's falling through Treacle. The falling magnet induces Eddy currents in the Ali plates. These Eddy currents create their own magnetic fields which react against the magnet's field slowing it's fall. If you do experiment with these magnets just make sure you keep them away from any Credit Cards, Monitors and any type of magnetic media.

I do hope everyone is at least using brushless fans. That note about getting one at rat shack makes me have my doubts, though.

I am fairly certain it is brushless -- I haven't seen a non-brushless fan in a long time.

But the more expensive have nice bearings, as opposed to a metal shaft in a collar. The radioshack one I got is the latter. It won't last as long, and is probably a bit louder than a bearing fan.

rjf&