Translucent Button Kits

Posted by: bmihulka

Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 13:26

I have set up a web page all about translucent buttons and the kits I will have available soon. I have put some howtos up as well. As soon as the kits go live I'll have Paul post something in the announcments, this is for the hardcore BBS readers.

Anyways go here.
Posted by: ninti

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 14:58

WOW! That is just too awesome. Count me in, I will definantely get one, though I may not install it until my warranty is up, 'cause I'm sure this would blow it right out of the water.

BTW, I like step 4 on the install page:
"Apply power, and look for smoke"
Posted by: loren

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 15:00

ditto... count me in on buying one of these =]

Two questions... on the knob install kit how to... it says to solder the leads onto the board as shown in the picture, but i don't see the leads in the picture... i'm guessing you just put that pic up as a temp.

Second... What exactly does the kernal patch do? Enable the LED's i'm guessing. Do they have brightness settings? Can this be integrated into hijack?

Okay, more than two questions... sorry, i'm easily excitable! I've wanted this button hack for a year now!
Posted by: NicolasW

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 15:15

Are you going to be doing any other colors in the future? Don't think blue will jive well with my amber screen and interior lights....

Thanks,
Wes
Posted by: ninti

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 15:17

I think he is. From his page:

"email with color request and I will reply with availablity and payment options."
Posted by: justinlarsen

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 20:38

looks great.. im devinatly in.. jsut need a lil mroe help once i order on the soilder points, and coudl i jsut order a set of red buttons as well or do u need differnt color led as well.. im guessing just new buttons.. becuase i woudl liek to have the option fo red or blue if possible.. becuase i like to change from time to time
Posted by: Shonky

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/02/2002 22:58

I'm in if you can do green similar to the "Smoke" faceplates.
Posted by: mtempsch

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/02/2002 00:20

do u need differnt color led as well.. im guessing just new buttons..

Correct, no need for different LEDs, the included ones emit white light (probably with a very slight blue touch, but far far less noticeable than the greenishblue hue that the VFD emits)

/Michael
Posted by: hybrid8

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/02/2002 18:55

If they're like the white LEDs I put into my PC, they don't emit a blue tint at all. Just very (VERY) bright white. A fairly cold white, not to be confused with incandescent lighting which is actually yellow.

Bruno
Posted by: traintrax

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/02/2002 19:58

Brian,

Is there any way to difuse the light in the 3 lower buttons. I would prefer it if the whole button lit up instead of a bright dot in the center.

- Neil
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 10:45

Yes the knob howto is not completely finished. The patch I have put up will only turn on and off the leds. I have a patch to do dimming but it adds a delay to the visuals comming up, so I want to try and look at that. And it can be patched with a hijack kernel.
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 10:47

That is one thing I've been working on. I should be getting some new materials next week that I will try.
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 10:49

I'm going to try other colors soon. I just did blue while working out the bubble issue.
Posted by: justinlarsen

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 11:00

cool thanks.. ya your instructions are great.. but if you could just go into photoshop or something.. and pur markers at the soilder points.. and where it needs to be put. im definatly in thou.. for a whole kit both sides
Posted by: tonyc

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 11:37

Hi Brian... Any chance that sometime in the future you'll consider doing button mods for people who lack the soldering expertise (or testicular fortitude) to hack it ourselves? Seeing that picture of the displya board physically separated from the Empeg took me back to 11th grade when they showed us shock tapes in driver's class with heads separated from bodies. I would love to have illuminated buttons, but the thought of hacking my Empeg apart like that scares the piss out of me.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 11:53

I would love to have illuminated buttons, but the thought of hacking my Empeg apart like that scares the piss out of me.

I would suggest that if you're not comfortable with doing that sort of thing, then you shouldn't do it. This is for the hardcore only.

I would also suggest that Brian put that text on his page so people know this isn't for everyone.

Any chance that sometime in the future you'll consider doing button mods for people who lack the soldering expertise (or testicular fortitude) to hack it ourselves?

If Brian is smart, he will avoid offering this service. If he damages your player while doing the work, he could be held liable for it. And I'm sure he wouldn't want that.

I would also suggest that Brian put that text on his page, too, so he's not inundated with requests.
Posted by: pgrzelak

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 12:34

Greetings!

...meanwhile, if there is anyone else out there who might be interested in offering such a service, they might want to make themselves known. I, too, would be interested, but do not have that kind of experience with soldering.
Posted by: tonyc

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 13:25

I would suggest that if you're not comfortable with doing that sort of thing, then you shouldn't do it. This is for the hardcore only.

Right. And I said I wouldn't be doing it. I'm only hardcore when it comes to software.

If Brian is smart, he will avoid offering this service. If he damages your player while doing the work, he could be held liable for it. And I'm sure he wouldn't want that.

Allow me to refresh your memory on why I asked my question...

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=empeg_tech&Number=58984

Note the words "LED hack service" in Brian's original post. I am just asking if this is still in play. If it's not, then he's more than welcome to say it's not. The last thing I was hoping for was to have you jump in and try to curb his enthusiasm. I would obviously be willing to pay a premium for this kind of thing, and he had shown that he was at least considering the idea.

Also, there is not a chance that I would hold him liable for any damages, I'd be willing to sign any number of disclaimers to that effect. Anyone who has the balls and wherewithall to do something like this to his empeg can be trusted with mine. If it breaks, then it breaks, and I'd deal with it.

If I had just fallen off a turnip truck last week I'd be a little less confrontational here, but it's not like my question was out of left field. You're a great moderator, Tony, and an invaluable asset to the empeg community, but sometimes you should just let two people hold a conversation without injecting needless, and dare I say underinformed advice and criticism.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 14:05

I had missed Brian's statement that he was actually considering offering a hack service. My apologies for spouting off about it.
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 20:01

I was thinking about it and have not fully decided yet. If it does happen it will be after a while. I also thought of the possibility that someone might send me a broken player and say it worked for them. So there would have to be some strict regulations if I do a hack service.
Posted by: tonyc

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/02/2002 20:17

also thought of the possibility that someone might send me a broken player and say it worked for them.

Damn, that's low... But very possible with 4000+ owners out there. Well if you decide to do it, count me in as interested. If not I *might* give this a run on my Mk2, but I'd probably have to consult a few clergymen first.

Most of the steps seem pretty routine for anyone with good electronics experience, I mean, I think there's probably a lot of people on this BBS who could do a hundred of these hacks and not screw one up. I'm just not one of 'em.
Posted by: bmihulka

To all that have emailed - 18/02/2002 13:47

To everyone who has emailed me about the buttons and kits. I have your emails and will slowly be going through them. On non weekends I will probably only get one maybe two button sets molded a day. And I do have a paypal account which should be the easiest for both parties.
Posted by: TedP

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 15:35

hey...

im all over these! one question: does the kernel hack prevent me from adding new versions of the kernel as they come out, and updating hijack as new versions are released? is there a way to put the hack on top of the latest kernel/hijack install?

thx
-ted
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 15:55

I intend to lobby Mark Lord to include Brian's backlighting code as a standard feature in future releases of Hijack.

Mark, if you're reading this, would you be interested in doing that?

The ultimate, of course, would be a Hijack screen control for the brightness level of the button lights.
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 19:50

I'm more of a hardware guy, so if Mark would like to include it he is more than welcome. The patch I have up on my page now only turns them on and off, I have a patch that dims relative to the display setting, but the way it is implimented it delays the screen from being updated while it is changing levels. I'll attach the entire patch and a kernel hacker could fix it up.
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 20:25

Brian, after removing my faceplate and checking out to see whats going to be involved in this, I noticed something that looks like an LED hanging out by the lower right hand part of the display, right next to the volume knob. What is that? and is there any way to make it light up on command? Could it be used as well? Just curious because everytime I pick up a soldering iron things smoke and I get blisters...
Posted by: Terminator

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 21:22

I think that is where the vfd was sealed off. Its not a led.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 18/02/2002 22:50

That is the fill nipple for the VFD display. It is very fragile, so use caution when working around it.
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 19/02/2002 00:08

A nipple? Theres a joke there somewhere but I'm too tired... Thanks for the info guys! I'll get the guaze ready and some neosporin
Posted by: ninti

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 19/02/2002 03:42

That's Tony for you, going on about nipples yet again.
Posted by: rob

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 19/02/2002 05:02

On no account should you grope for this particular nipple.
Posted by: beaker

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 19/02/2002 13:27

And please refrain from tweaking it - it may break off .
Posted by: mlord

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 21/02/2002 19:53

The basic hack for button illumination is now in Hijack v202.

Support for some form of variable dimming will follow after I get/install the physical button hack from Brian.

Cheers
Posted by: lothar

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 21/02/2002 20:02

no pressure to get Mr. Lord a kit of course...

:=)
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 28/02/2002 14:35

Just curious as to if anyone has tried installing the kit yet? I got the knob board and components... But still scared to actually do it!
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 28/02/2002 14:41

Did you look in the Reviews section of this BBS?
Posted by: gbeer

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 28/02/2002 23:11

Just how many hard orders for buttons do you have? If there are enough, then this might be the place to have a short run made.

http://www.protomold.com/prices/prices.asp

Urk! I did the math. I think there would need to be 5-600 orders to make the cost come in.
Posted by: ninti

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 28/02/2002 23:58

I wasn't even aware that these were shipping yet (except for Tony's).

Is there any progress on a more opaque button and knob color yet? I am even more anxious to give it a shot after Tony's writeup since I am a pretty good solderer. My first job many years ago consisted of me sitting there soldering and desoldering all day, and Tony's warning of the difficulty sounds like a personal challenge to me and only makes me want to do it more. But I want to wait to see if Brian can improve the light dispersion through those buttons a little bit more first.
Posted by: DarkStorm

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 03:42

One thing I am curious about is how do you mold the buttons?
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 09:35

I've still been trying some diffusion techniques, and working on other colors. I have only shipped out three kits with preliminary buttons. I hope to finalize the process this weekend and start contacting people. But this all depends on a new interest I have and how much time that takes up.
Posted by: bmihulka

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 09:37

I've made a silicon mold from the originals and then use a pourable plastic. I took me about three molds and twenty or so tries until I got them to come out 99% perfect.
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 10:12

Which pourable plastic? I'm using Smooth-On Oomo 30 for my silicone mold, then task 10 pourable plastic. The mold turned out nice, but I can't for the life of me get the bubbles that form in the plastic out. The guy at smooth-on said I needed to bake the moisture out of my mold and I tried that, it helped but I'm still getting tiny bubbles forming in my plastic? Maybe I need to bake it longer?
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 10:14

Brian, I tried the hack on my Empeg and failed miserably, now the player is acting 10 kinds of funky! Not to worry I ordered another 10gig player (been wanting to for a while, to have a backup). Ever considered letting people send you their VFD's? In my case I'd wanna send you a funky VFD to see if you could
A. Make it work properly again
B. Make it glow!
Either way I've got nothing to lose!
Posted by: eternalsun

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 17:51

OMG, don't post stuff like that. When you kill an empeg it's a sad sad thing. Kind of like clubbing a baby seal.

Calvin
Posted by: eternalsun

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 17:58

I'd be interested in different button colors. I don't have the skills to install the light kit, but I would definitely put in better buttons in a split second.

I'd like to have a very dark black color please.

Calvin
Posted by: acurasquirrel

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 18:21

have you ever tasted baby seal? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 19:53

Yes, It's yummy, except I hate the way the fur sticks to your teeth....

Just heard from tech support, they said they could definately fix my player. So thats cool, but I was still bummed that I couldn't do the fix, then I remembered a place my company uses to get replacement batteries for their Ipaq's, these guys will take a 32meg PPC and solder new ram chips to the board up to 256meg! Anyway I remember them seeming to be a small shop and pretty cool people in general that do quality work. I sent them an email asking them if they would like to take the project on and am anxiously waiting for their reply. I told them if they could do this as a service they might have quite a few people willing to give them their business. I'm wondering how many people here would want to send their units in to these guys if it turns out their willing to take it on?
Posted by: Laura

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 20:14

Guess it would depend on how much they would charge to do it and where they are located. Keep us informed if they are willing.
Posted by: tonyc

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 20:20

Well my first choice is sending it to Brian if he'll do it. I'd rather he got my money since he came up with this hack, and I'd trust the guy who originally hacked up his own Empeg to do mine... But, if he can't do it for some reason, I'd consider sending it to someone with *serious* electronics skills, as long as someone else reviews them favorably... I'm not going to be a guinnea pig... It'd be different if I bought my Empeg for $199 like a lot of people around here, but mine were $1599 and $699, so I'm not trusting them to just anyone.

Let us know how it works out, though.
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 20:42

Definately if Brian wanted to do it, I would prefer that too! But I think A. He's really really busy right now, and B. He might not want to take on that liability, so just trying to open up some alternatives.
Posted by: tonyc

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 20:45

I hear ya, and, like I said, this is a good Plan B. I heard there was a chance Brian might go to the West Coast meet and do some modding. That's definitely the ticket for me right now until I hear that's not an option.
Posted by: mlord

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/03/2002 21:37

Speaking of which, my kit arrived today, thanks.

My.. those components are tiny, much smaller than the photos seen so far would suggest. But no worse than other stuff I have worked with in the past. I'll post some pics of my own later.

I've also updated my toolkit with a nifty "Kester No-Clean SMT Repair Kit", which has some LMT solder, a flux-pen, tip-tinner, a roll of desolder-braid, and a cutesy suction gadget that's intended to be used in place of tweezers. Price was about the same as (or slightly less) flux-pen + solder + tinner purchased separately.

I've also got precision tweezers, a magnifier-gator-clamp thingie, a suction device for desoldering, and some micro-tips for my irons.

Perhaps I'll have a go at it on the weekend. If all goes well, I might even offer to provide installation for others in the Great White North.

Cheers
Posted by: mlord

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 02/03/2002 17:42

Well, bad news here.

I installed the kit, worked first try, looks nice.

But.. my display is misbehaving. It's very dim, and the
standby LED stays on when the display is on, and the IR
receptor ignores my remotes.

Oh well, win some, lose some. I'll figure it out eventually.

Cheers

-ml
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 02/03/2002 17:47

That sounds exactly like the symptoms I'm having. Sorry to hear it.... I'd hoped I'd be the only one. On the plus side David Moss says worst case scenario is replacing the VFD board. But that plus the cost of shipping could be well over 170 bucks! Then again, I'm just the average user, I'm sure the Empeg guys will give you the programming god discount.
Posted by: ninti

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 02/03/2002 21:23

> That sounds exactly like the symptoms I'm having.

Ok, um, that is bad. What are the odds that two of the first three people to try and install this (besides Brian himself of course) would make the exact same mistake and blow the same thing? Maybe we should pool some money together and get David or Hugo one so they can take a look at it and see if there are any unforseen issues with the design?
Posted by: mlord

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 08:55

>That sounds exactly like the symptoms I'm having.

Let's explore this a bit further. Do you really mean exactly the same? Please describe, from scratch, if you would. With enough information (and perhaps a few hints from David), we can figure this out.


>I'm sure the Empeg guys will give you .. discount.

Err.. dunno. Sometimes I suspect I'm viewed as more of an annoyance to them. But I'd really rather just get some information about voltages and test-points, so I can diagnose and fix it here.

Speaking of which.. Brian? The +5V connection point for the knob.. what voltage do you read from there? I only see 4V on that pin.

Thanks
Posted by: lopan

Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 09:51

Well the symptoms are
  • dim display
  • no remote
  • sometimes after the "loading visuals" part of bootup my display shuts down and if I open hyperterm and hit enter a few times it comes back up.
  • and my standby LED also stays on.

    Thats all I can think of, and I'm also getting 4v from that pin.

    I spoke to David Moss at Empeg about it this was his reply....

    It sounds like you may have damaged the power supply circuit on the display
    board, although you might just have done something bad to the dimmer
    circuit. I think we can probably repair it, so sending the player back would be best.


    Brett
  • Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 10:00

    Cool. So it's probably not my ribbon cable, then. The cable on my unit was badly pinched during factory assembly, and felt like it might be just hanging on by a thread. I did check it for continuity, though, and it seems okay, but I worried that might be just luck of positioning (bending).

    But the symptoms you describe exactly match those seen here, so I'm inclined to assume the cable is working. One less variable to wonder about.

    I'm wondering if maybe soldering that +5V (+4V?) pin might have leaked and shorted a trace on the underside or something. Nothing else in the hack is mechanically close enough to anything to worry about.

    Let's see if David can send any hints (I emailed him) for what to measure. If not, I may have to break the seals on my other unit to compare signals/levels between the two.

    Cheers
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 10:04

    Well, thats the difference here, I abandoned the project before even getting the LED's in the buttons (I'd ordered the wrong LED's) so I didn't even get to solder the knob button to anything. Just that tiny little resistor. I removed it and here I am.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 13:50

    I am now unclear about what you actually did. Did you actually install the knob mod, or just that single resistor (4-pack)?

    -ml
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 14:04

    I just measure the voltage at that pin and got 4.9 volts. Just to make sure you did attach to the second pin from the right on the top row? Do your problems go away if you disconnect the knob board? If so I should look for a different attachment point. Let me know any info you find out.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 14:14

    >I just measure the voltage at that pin and got 4.9 volts.

    No doubt about which pin, thanks.

    Mmm.. okay. So maybe the low voltage is the problem. I think I saw a note somewhere once that suggested the display board is fed 12V, and uses an onboard regulator or transistor to generate it's own +5V and +60V supplies. Ring any bells anyone?


    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 15:51

    No I just installed the resistor... thats it, didn't even get to the button LED's (it was a totally stupid mistake, basically rather then get the kit from Brian I ordered my own parts and got the wrong size LED) I had the right resistor so I just left it on the board and thought I'd wait til my parts came in, plugged in empeg and bam problems, I then took it apart and removed the resistor array, put back together and got the same thing. I think something is funky on the board.
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 16:02

    I thought my problems might have been from turning it on with no LED's installed, with the resistor in place. But apparently thats not the case. I think we've fried a component on board
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/03/2002 16:38

    I'm wondering whether static damage could be a cause for these problems. Dry winter air isn't the electronic techs' friend.
    Posted by: mlord

    Translucent Button Kit! - 04/03/2002 09:57

    Okay, replaced the fuse, and it works just fine.

    Hugo said that pretty much the only cause for a blown fuse there is a misaligned connector. So, I must have plugged it in wrong.

    Tip for the wise: remove the hard drive & cable completely before testing this, so as to get unobstructed visibility of the connector before reattaching the cable.

    Now.. to look at adding dimming capability to Hijack for these.

    Cheers
    Posted by: puckalicious

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 10:11

    In reply to:

    Ok, um, that is bad. What are the odds that two of the first three people to try and install this (besides Brian himself of course) would make the exact same mistake and blow the same thing?




    Make that 2/4. I did this and it works perfect. No problems.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 10:49

    Just so everyone knows here and doesn't get too scared about this...

    The problems MLord and Lopan had were just because they plugged the display back in wrong. The connector was off by one pin. They didn't do any permanent damage. They merely needed to correct the position of the plugged-in connector and then replace a blown SMT resistor.

    So, everybody, be real careful when plugging the display back in!

    And Mark, to your comment about how tiny the parts were: I was not kidding when I said "flea with anorexia", huh?
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 11:11

    Yup, that was my prob, I left the HD connected and couldn't tell that I was off by a pin. The connector itself is a little confusing because there is an extra connector spot on both sides of the connector, so if it's flush on one side, it's not on right. Live and learn....
    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 11:53

    Just so everyone knows here and doesn't get too scared about this...

    Weren't you the one who first *got* everyone scared about this?
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 12:03

    I wasn't trying to scare anyone, I was trying to tell everyone to be realistic about whether or not they could do it. I thought I was pretty darn good with a soldering iron, but that resistor pack tested the limits of my skill. That's all I'm saying.
    Posted by: ninti

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 12:08

    > Weren't you the one who first *got* everyone scared about this?

    There is a difference between too scared and just the right amount of scared.

    This was certainly the former for me, I'm extremely glad it got solved.
    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 12:11

    I gotcha. I wasn't criticizing your approach, in fact, I think scaring people away from doing this is a *good thing* since it's clear it's not a Radio Shack 100-in-1 electronics kit project. I just thought it was funny to see a big bold disclaimer on how difficult it was and then see you say "before anyone gets too scared." Kinda like putting up a big sign saying "Shark infested area, swim at your own risk" and then saying "come on in, the water's fine!"

    I think the net result is that most people will be scared away from doing it, and that's a good net result.
    Posted by: justinlarsen

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 13:31

    well just confused.. maybe brain shodl put all the soilder parts on a picture next to a quarter to give people and idea of how small they are? brain?
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 13:55

    I would say that the resistor is a little smaller than an uncooked piece of white rice.... no kidding.
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 14:47

    Would that be long-grain or short-grain rice?
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 14:48

    a picture next to a quarter to give people and idea of how small they are?

    The quarter would be so large you wouldn't recognize it as a quarter. Besides, what about people in other countries?

    Better would be the tip of a number two pencil, I think.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:13

    That 8-contact resistor pack is about the size of the "ok" under the Menu button of the Rio Remote. I'll post a picture of it shortly.

    -ml
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:18

    Okay, now that I've completed my crash course in button hacking, I am now offering my services and experience with it to anyone who wants to mail me a display and parts.

    Fee: C$50 for Canadians, US$50 for others, includes one-way return postage. All you need to send me is the displayboard and button kit; I'll test it with (and risk) my own player. Or you can send your entire unit if you like (or visit me if you live nearby).

    If Bruno wants his done, I'll do it for free if he meets me for a beer in Toronto some weekend when I'm down that way.

    Cheers

    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:27

    That includes the knob LED's as well, Mark?

    I think you have a customer... Just gotta order the stuff from Brian.

    Do the button and knob LED's automatically turn off when the unit's in standby?
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:34

    Yes, that price is for both buttons and knob. I don't think anybody would want only the buttons.. or would they?

    The latest Hijack kernel (v227) has full dimmer support for the buttons. By default, they stay on (very dim) when the player is in standby (yellow led flashing), but that can be adjusted from full-off to very-bright in config.ini. There's also a menu item for adjusting the "on" brightness.

    I have posted pictures of the (unassembled) kit on my webserver, just to supplement Brian's photos. http://rtr.ca/buttonhack

    Cheers
    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:40

    Holy cow that resistor pack is miniscule! That's 8 contacts that need to be soldered?!?!?! Whew. Way over my head. The soldering I've done for my MAME cabinet is nothing

    I think I might do this, but I might want to wait for Brian to figure out how to get better light dispersion on the buttons. He said he was going to work on that... I'd like a more uniform glow from the whole buttons if it's possible.

    Also, since my lens is "smoked" it'd be nice to have either light green-ish or even clear buttons... But if red and blue are all that's available I guess I'd go with blue... Red and green would be nice for Christmas, though..

    Brian, if you're reading, any progress on changing the button compound?
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:47

    Heh, yeah, and the photo is of a single-shot resistor with (relatively) huge contacts, one on either end. Those were the EASY ones.

    Mark, how about a closeup photo (on the remote) of the 8-pad resistor pack, too?

    (Edit: Never mind, already there, it was the photo IN the package I hadn't looked at yet.)
    Posted by: bonzi

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 15:49

    There is one, right next to a single one.
    Posted by: rtundo

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 16:21

    I would also prefer buttons that come close to the green from the smoked lens. But either way I'm sure I'll be sending mlord my riocar and the button kit!
    Posted by: pca

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 17:05

    Assuming the attachment works:

    OK, to show what the job is like, I took a picture of a few different sizes of
    resistor from my parts box. The sizes are, from left to right, 1206, 0805, 0603, and
    0402. Note that the 8-pin resistor pack for the buttons is physically the same size
    as a 1206 component, but with four terminals down each long edge the size of
    the 0603 component.

    The screw on the left, by the way, is one of the M2.5x6 screws that hold an
    empeg drive tray in place. This should give an idea of size.

    As you can see at the top of the image, I'm using 0402 components in most of my
    designs at the moment. The part of PCB you can see is a small PSU board, fairly
    low density really. It's about 10x30mm, double sized construction. To hand-solder
    0402 parts you need a really fine-tipped soldering iron, tweezers, and good
    eyesight. It helps to have a lot of practical experience. (during the
    development of the empeg, I think I clocked up about 40K-50K solder joints. Most
    worked.)

    I had a look to see if I had any of the resistor packs in the parts box, but I don't
    seem to stock anything that big at the moment.

    pca
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 17:22

    Speaking of photos, I've added one more to my buttonhack page, showing the completed unit, in the home-office docking bay.

    I took a little time today to drop some 5-minute epoxy into the new knob, lined the mounting projection on my player with thin plastic wrap (so I could separate them again after the epoxy hardened), and then stuffed the two together, face down on the table, for 20 minutes.

    The result, the knob now fits my Mk2a player perfectly, without the little rubber washer thingie that threw it slightly off-center.

    (for those who didn't know/notice, the knobs Tony and I got were molded from a Mk2 template, rather than a Mk2a. The mounts are slightly different on the two models).

    Cheers

    -ml
    Posted by: spider

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 17:54

    mark, what "colour" lens is that on your empeg in the picture?
    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 18:56

    That would be the stock amber lens. The title on the picture's page says "The completed hack (blue buttons, amber screen)."

    Hey does anyone who's familiar with the Empeg smoke fascia think it would look lame to have red buttons and a blue knob? Kind of a R-G-B motif... I can't mentally picture it so I'll probably draw it up in Corel Draw before I buy the buttons. Hmm... Green-ish buttons would be ideal though. I hope Brian considers doing a Mk2a knob template as well.

    That soldering is *insane*. I have serious respect for you guys who did it. I have the manual dexterity to do it, but definitely the soldering expertise or the equipment. My soldering gun is a garbage $12.95 Radio Shack job.

    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:07

    Yeah, the screen is amber, but my camera tends to show it as more white than it really looks -- due to the incandescant white balance I used to get the other colours mostly correct.

    Cheers
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:09

    >That soldering is *insane*. I have serious respect for you guys
    >who did it. I have the manual dexterity to do it, but definitely
    >the soldering expertise or the equipment. My soldering gun is a
    >garbage $12.95 Radio Shack job.

    Yeah, much easier with the Weller station I have. But I did go out and get a .01" tip for it, just for this job. That, and the magnifying glass really made things possible.

    I'll take some pic's of the tools and put those up as well later tonight.

    Cheers
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:13

    I'm trying one last idea. Everything I've tried so far has not worked. I even contacted the manufacturer of the casting resin and they only had one idea, which is what I'm trying now. If this doesn't work out, I'm going to start making them and maybe have some type of upgrade offer. I'll start off with blue and red, then green and amber. I need to get one more pigment for the last two. Also if anyone wants some, I can make non-translucent colored buttons for a little less.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:17

    Here's a thought.. I mounted the button LEDs tight to the base of the buttons, but I suppose with an extra bend they could be left much higher inside the button casting.. I wonder what that would look like?
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:47

    The buttons need space to move, the LED's stay in position and the buttons depress the collar around them. So moving the LED's up doesn't work, it will prevent you from pressing the buttons.
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:49

    Just let me know when and we can decide where. But let's make sure the bar allows soldering on the premises!

    Of course my little brother might be miffed I won't let him do it. I suppose he'll busy himself enough with his (no doubt he'd like to practise on mine)

    I do think you're a little nuts to put out the offer to everyone like this. Nuts if you suddenly get a ton of requests that is. Hope you schedule it. Get people in a queue.

    Bruno
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 19:57

    I think there's some wiggle room left in there, just gotta bend the leads in tight at the base of the button, and let the LED extend up another say 5mm from the "normal" positioning. Plenty of hollow space inside the button casing for them.

    But it might not look as good that way.. just wondering. I suppose Brian could stuff an LED up into a loose button just to see how it looks.

    Cheers
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 20:00

    Here's another thought for the knob area. I used a black grease pencil to darken the end of the aluminium shaft, so it is less conspicuous on the button face in bright light.

    The same grease pencil (more like a grown-up crayon) could be used to darken the coloured faceplate around the knob area, to cut down on direct light leakage from the LEDs in that area. Leaving, of course, space for the IR signals to pass through. Mmm.. I think I'll do that next time I have the front off of mine.

    -ml
    Posted by: wfaulk

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 20:28

    Hey, is that my old amber lens? Woo-hoo! Famous at last!
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 20:32

    Yes, that particular unit is wfaulk's old Amber lens. I have another unit, my original Mk2 with the factory amber on it as well. I like amber.

    Cheers
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/03/2002 21:17

    Just lemme know when you get your button kit, Bruno.

    Cheers
    Posted by: Nosferatu

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 05:53

    does it mean we can order specific color buttonkits ?

    If so, I would like to have a red.

    Tell me if possible....
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 06:50

    Mark, I'd be very much interested in letting you to do the hack (I can't bear to try it again) to mine. Let me know where, when and how to send this to ya.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 08:30

    Email me (click on my userid to get my email address) and I'll reply with details. For cross-border work (I'm in Canada), it would probably be best to just ship the displayboard (cheaper, and less customs hassle on this end).

    Cheers
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 08:42

    I'm not seeing your Email on your details page is it viewable?
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 08:47

    Ooopps.. I'll see if I can get it to show up.. now.. ??
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 13:47

    If I were to send my display to you could you also do the dimmer fix as well?
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 14:09

    >If I were to send my display to you could you also
    >do the dimmer fix as well?

    Sure. Probably cost another $5 or so for me to run out and buy a pack of capacitors.

    Cheers
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 14:51

    Oh dont worry Id pay extra. But I need to get a car first I just got done stripping the stereo out of the Integra I totalled.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 14:53

    Got the dock out, as well?
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 15:07

    That was the first thing I took out boy those tabs are a bitch and a half good thing I didnt care about any damage to the car. But yeah I had 4 speakers to take out well 6 including the tweeters and a sub, and I sure wasnt about to leave the 80 dollar wiring kit for the amp.
    Posted by: tanstaafl.

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 21:58

    totalled.

    ??

    Bummer!

    I had thought the damage was repairable.

    Does this mean you're not coming to Alaska to race my ShoWagon after all?

    The least you can do is post some pictures of the damage, like loren did.

    tanstaafl.
    Posted by: loren

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 23:10

    Don't remind me... i miss my hatchback. =\

    I've seriously considered selling my coupe, buying another '93 or '94 Civic Hatchback Si, dropping 5 grand on the engine, supercharger, rims, etc... and having a few grand leftover.

    But yeah... lets see some pics
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/03/2002 23:18

    Damn loren you read my mind. Im looking a 92-95 civic vx hatch. And dropping a GSR engine in it and the supercharging it. Im going for the less showing more go-ey car not to mention more affordable insurance.
    Here is the plan
    GSR engine 2800+500 for overhaul to make sure its tip top
    JRSC 2200+goodies 1200
    total a little over 5 grand
    result a total sleeper that can run 12s
    Posted by: loren

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 11:13

    You bastard! That's my dream car!!! if i wasn't so f'n lazy... I could use that insurance drop too.... ARGHGHAGHH! Maybe at the end of the summer i'll start giving it some serious thought. I don't need another project right now.

    Man, as far as i'm concerned, the body shape of that series of Civic Hatchbacks is one of the best designs of any car ever made. Beautiful. *punches self repeatedly for crashing mine* *punch* *punch*.

    The VX's have the lightest body of all of them right? Is that why you're going with the VX?
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 11:43

    Loren, if your dream car is a Civic, you need to be setting your sights a little higher.
    Posted by: drakino

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 11:56

    Well there are differences between "Dream Car" and "Dream Car I can afford". Knowing the DeLorean can be mine for $30,000 is not helping my seperation of the two above categories.
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 16:23

    >That soldering is *insane*. I have serious respect for you guys who did it.

    Really. If you can't stand a little OT tangent, then don't click on this , but I somehow feel that it's required reading for anyone contemplating this solder job...


    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 16:27

    ROFL what a great link.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 16:33

    Where do you guys find stuff like that!!?!
    Posted by: loren

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 17:48

    Palease. Everyone has an unrealistic idea of their dream car... but that's one i could actually afford and drive daily without paying ludicrous insurance and worrying every second if it got a scratch. And by "dream car" i meant "my favorite body shape of any car ever with a kick ass engine slapped in 'er". My sights are just fine where they are thank you very much.

    And Tom, i'm with you on the DeLorean thing. Me Wanty...
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 17:53

    Where do you guys find stuff like that!!?!

    As much time as I might fritter away in the course of a day, I'm not very good at unearthing things like this. Also, I generally don't encourage most folks to send me jokes by mail (there are so many old jokes recirculating)....

    However, I have a good friend who works at a local state university who makes much better use of his frittering and who exchanges tidbits with some friends at another state U. in northern CA and I am lucky enough to be in that mail loop. He only sends the good ones. I always ask *him* where he finds stuff like that but he won't tell!

    Jim
    Posted by: tanstaafl.

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 17:54

    Everyone has an unrealistic idea of their dream car... but that's one i could actually afford and drive daily without paying ludicrous insurance and worrying every second if it got a scratch. And by "dream car" i meant "my favorite body shape of any car ever with a kick ass engine slapped in 'er"

    Absolutely.

    I have a Porsche 930 Turbo Carrera sitting in my garage gathering dust... because I have my "dream car" -- the ShoWagon.

    tanstaafl.
    Posted by: ClownBurner

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 06/03/2002 22:54

    If it's gathering dust, I will be very happy to take it off your hands for you...
    Posted by: jane

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 01:57

    I am driving my dream car. I haven't found any car I really like except this one... Maybe a Rover 214/6 Convertible, but it is not really worth the upgrade.
    I may be lucky to have "cheap taste" ;-)

    (I paid 50.000 NOK ~ 4000US$)

    Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)
    Posted by: johnmcd3

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 02:17

    Banking on my hopes that whoever grades this will just look at the pictures, I drew an exponential through my noise. I believe the apparent legitimacy is enhanced by the fact that I used a complicated computer program to make the fit. I understand this is the same process by which the top quark was discovered.

    That's pretty damn funny.
    Posted by: thenominous

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 02:39

    If you like the Idea of a rover, check out this site.

    My dream car has got to be something similar to this rex

    Mine was written off (without the turbo), although not by me. Some evil people instead.
    The first night
    daytime (1.79Mb ZIP)

    I am getting another one though.
    Posted by: jane

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 06:54

    > If you like the Idea of a rover, check out this site.

    Cool!

    Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 07:41

    Any chance of all of this dream machine stuff moving over to an Off Topic forum, so we don't lose any relevent Button Kits postings here?

    Cheers
    Posted by: rob

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 08:22

    My dream button kit would be blue, and shine brilliantly at night.

    Rob
    Posted by: thenominous

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 09:26

    My dream button kit would be any!
    Impatient? Probably... But happy to wait
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 09:31

    My dream machine has blue buttons that do shine brilliantly at night!

    But the faceplate is amber, and I'm eager to see how matching buttons will look someday.

    Cheers
    Posted by: thenominous

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 07/03/2002 09:52

    Well, whilst your waiting for them, you may as well send your blue ones to me since they must conflict with the faceplate and make a once beautiful empeg into a paranoidly private pengiun

    Go on, you know you want to....
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 12/03/2002 15:47

    It does remind me of some of those college lab projects too! Where you start out with a box of used and broken parts!

    Calvin
    Posted by: muzza

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 14/03/2002 23:02

    A bit like computing hardware in college.
    Challenge number one: find a computer and make it work.
    Catch number one: none of the computers work all of the time.
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 15/03/2002 20:30

    And the project begins. I picked a VX(the lightest model) up for 3000. It looks great but has high miles no biggie I have a GSR motor coming and should be in within the month. Right now Im about tapped out on the $$ from insurance(from the totalled teg) so the JRSC is gonna have a to wait a month or two but oh man its greatness.
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/03/2002 08:29

    You'll have a speedy little car. But it's still a civic, no matter what engine you put in it. I understand doing engine swaps on some cars, but not a civic... At least you have the better looking body style (just don't put any ugly-as-sin kits onto it).

    Reminds me of the scene in (the worst movie of 2001) Fast and the Furious where they pull up next to the Ferrari in their modified Supra. Ok, the Supra would have completely finished the Ferrari by a degree not even depicted in the movie. But, so what? It's still a Supra. And the Ferrari is still a Ferrari.

    Bruno
    Posted by: bonzi

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/03/2002 18:32

    Where do you guys find stuff like that!!?!

    Ah, there are various reliable scientific sources (see bellow for one of many).

    However, I came upon the most brilliant work of this kind by word of mouth some twenty years ago, before Internet (a late friend of mine, professor of history of medicine in Paris, sent it to me). The work is Experimental Demonstration of the tomatotopic organization in the soprano (Cantatrix sopranica L.) by a brilliant French guy (deceased, regrettably) Georges Perec. Pay special attention to references (some Franch helps for some of them).

    A good place to start searching for more works almost but not quite like 'Tomatotopism' is here.

    Enjoy!
    Posted by: acurasquirrel

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 16/03/2002 20:50

    Zoolander was the worst movie of 2001 first off. Anyway no body kits on this civic. My goal with this car is to be a reliable fun car until I graduate then Ill buy something nice and keep it as a track car. By the way that body style was the best for swaps because they came with hydrolic trannies as opposed to cable. The only exterior stuff Im going to do is have the side mouldings painted, black on white looks like crap.
    Posted by: wfaulk

    Worst Movie - 16/03/2002 21:11

    Okay, I've got three words for you: ``Freddie Got Fingered''. Or how about ``Glitter''? They, plus ``Pearl Harbor'', ``Driven'', and ``3000 Miles to Graceland'' seem to be the official Golden Raspberry nominees for 2001.
    Posted by: genixia

    On topic!!! - 16/03/2002 21:29

    Ok, I, like some other members here have a late model VW with the IMO quite funky blue and red dash illumination.

    Which of the button kits is going to be a better match?
    Ideally it'd be the red, 'cos the the scheme of the car illumination is red on blue - dials and displays are blue, needles and buttons are red. But, if the red is nowhere near, but the blue is near, I'd probably take the blue.

    BTW Brian, did you have any luck with your last attempts to make the buttons more diffuse? I seem to recall you saying that you had one more thing to try, but no response since then.

    Anyway, to get back off-topic, give me an Ultima. GTR, Spyder, Can-AM or Sports. I'd have a Lot Of Fun(tm) with any of them...

    Posted by: muzza

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 04:53

    Any chance of Green soon?
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: Worst Movie - 17/03/2002 11:18

    Warning, this thread is going offtopic again for a bit.

    Freddy Got Fingered (caught part of it on Satelite), wasn't anywhere near as bad as Fast and the Furious. Glitter (saw some of it yesterday) was terrible. Easily worse, but I don't consider it a movie, let alone a moie for a wide audience - so it's disqualified. There was nothing wrong with Pearl Harbor. Driven was crap, but FTF was worse (MUCH worse IMO). 3000 Miles was lame, but not a pain to watch like the above.

    I don't put stake in the Raspberries. Not even in the Acedemy anymore. They nominated AI for best picture, didn't they? That movie was tripe. Just adequate special effects, some OK acting, some horrible acting (Osment plus William Hurt), but worst of all, the story was so (so) boring and contrived. Useless. Bicentennial Man was a much better movie by comparison, but that still isn't saying too much.

    Bruno
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Worst Movie - 17/03/2002 11:41

    >Warning, this thread is going offtopic again for a bit.

    Sheesh.. some people will do anything to inflate their posting counts.

    Cheers
    Posted by: tanstaafl.

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/03/2002 13:21

    But, so what? It's still a Supra. And the Ferrari is still a Ferrari.

    [flame]

    What a snob.

    You think that just because it's made in Italy, it's red, and it is (oooohhh... let's all be appropriately reverent here) a F e r r a r i (oh, be still, my beating heart!) then it automatically is to be placed on some God-like pedestal and is incontrovertibly superior to any other form of mechanized transport ever conceived by man?

    You remind me of the lady in my office who upon discovering the plans for the new line of very high end Volkswagens (with the W-12 engine, $85K price tags) said "That's ridiculuous. Who'd pay that kind of money for a Volkswagen!" like anything that says VW on it can only be a clone of a 1970's era Beetle.

    So you take a Supra, spend enough money on it that you have maybe 20% of the price of the Ferrari it in... and all it does is look better, go faster, stop faster, corner better, operate much more reliably for a small fraction of the cost of upkeep, be more comfortable and fun to drive... but "So what? It's still a Supra. And the Ferrari is still a Ferrari."

    Right.

    [/flame]

    tanstaafl.
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 14:16

    Unfortunately the diffusion did not work. So for now I'm going to start making the strait sets. If in the future I or someone figures it out and I make some better diffusion ones, I'll most likely have a special price for people who purchased the originals.
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 14:34

    I wonder if inserting a small bit of white paper (hole-punched?) into the back of the button would do the trick? Obviously I can't really test this. Anyone care to try?
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 17/03/2002 14:42

    Unflame...

    Except it wouldn't look better and wouldn't drive as well. Sure, it would probably go faster. But it would be a lot more than 20% the price of the Ferrari (not all Ferraris of course). And you'd be left with a Supra that was in the shop as often as any Ferrari.

    There's something to be said about quality and class, and that has nothing to do with being snobby about a car (and doesn't have to have anything to do with that car actually). Supras have their place. But just because you can add a few things to it to make it fast doesn't put that driver in the snob seat either. That was my point. There's no sense in being snobby in either case. Another stupid segment in the movie. The Paul Walker character was still a piss-pooor driver to boot.

    Like a Civic I saw last night. Licence plate said something like "4U2NV" (but in a more contrived combination because he obviously didn't get the simpler format). What about a Civic would I be envious of? It was a hatchback of three generations past (flat-back variety). I'm pretty sure he didn't have 6000 tunes at his finger tips while driving.

    Bruno

    Posting count+1 whoohoo!
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 14:48

    I suspect it still won't work properly. It might help, simply by the way of dimming the light in the center so the light to the sides looks a little more bright by comparison. If you want to get to the ultimate design, then you'll have to mould the buttons so that they properly carry the beam of light and distribute it, by way of something prism-like, or a channel like with fibre cabling, within the extremes of the button. A level of physics I can't help with.

    Bruno
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 15:27

    I think the basic problem with trying to obtain more difuse illumination, is that the buttons are not shaped for it. Think of each button as a lens, bending light to its whim.

    The top button is a convex lens, focussing the LED light straight forward -- practically invisible from the sides, but nice and difuse when viewed head-on.

    The botton/left/right buttons are all concave on the surface, focussing light to a point at the centre of the button.

    I like the current shapes, but one side-effect of them is that the light may never be as difuse as some would like it to be.

    Cheers
    Posted by: ninti

    Re: On topic!!! - 17/03/2002 15:29

    In reply to:

    Unfortunately the diffusion did not work.


    That's too bad, thanks for trying though. Regarding your blue color poll, I notice it was pretty close, did you decide which version you are going to offer?

    Edit: Never mind, didn't see the other thread.

    Doesn't matter that much though, my order is coming through soon either way.
    Posted by: frog51

    Re: Worst Movie - 18/03/2002 03:36

    Freddy Got Fingered - how did they let that film get made? I'm impressed it got a certificate in the UK. I agree it is terrible, but I have to admit I was in uncontrollable, hysterical laughter by the end, and right now I'm grinning manically at the thought of the "Listen to my hooves" scene

    Oh well, back to work with a smile.
    Posted by: sancho

    Re: Worst Movie - 18/03/2002 08:05

    "daddy, would you like some sausage?"
    Posted by: hybrid8

    Re: Worst Movie - 18/03/2002 21:17

    It was art. The other movies, like Glitter were just... Well..... shite.

    Bruno
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Worst Movie - 19/03/2002 07:13

    But does it have Illuminated Buttons in it?
    Posted by: Diznario

    Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 00:13

    Hey Brian, I've been doing a little thinking on the diffusion thing...

    Now, first off, I don't know what you've tried, and secondly, I have no idea if this is even feasible, but what about adding in fine particles of something semi-reflective into the mix? I'm thinking ultra fine glitter...

    A company called Mark Enterprises makes some "Ultra Fine" glitter, that is so insanely tiny, it's hard to distinguish individual particles with the naked eye. And, it comes it in many colors, including glow in the dark!

    (OK, so the reason I know this, is because I glitter bombed a girl for valentines day last year... Yeah, I'm a nut.)

    Anyway, I still have the bottle it came in, with a little left over in it. And I'm looking at this stuff, and I'm thinking it's worth a shot...

    (Random thought #2 - Powdered Aluminum)

    - Edit -

    To give you an idea of just how tiny ultra fine glitter is, I just did a size comparison...

    Crystals of table salt are bigger.
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 17:11

    I tried many different things. Like porcelin powder, silver/nickel powder, baby powder, and others. I only got marginal results when the concentration wasn't enought to block light. I'll be thinking about it and trying new things.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 17:22

    I'm guessing that powders mixed into the color are probably the backwards way to go about it.

    Have you ever noticed how something with a lighted keypad works? For example, the lighted keypad on a telephone.

    It's made of a milky white plastic. Sometimes it's a rubberized flexible plastic. If you just looked at it under normal light, it would look pretty much solid white. But when you put a backlight behind it, it's transparent enough to allow a certain amount of light through.

    I'm thinking that you probably want to start, as a basis, with a white plastic and see how translucent you can make it. As opposed to the opposite thing of starting with a clear plastic and seeing how opaque or diffuse you can make it.

    I already made one modification to the knob on my player that diffused the light behind the knob significantly. I took some milky white sheet plastic that used to be part of Rio/Nike portable MP3 player package. It was vacu-formed sheet plastic which happened to be translucent white in color. I cut it into the shape of a circle, with a hole in the center that was the same diameter as the shaft for the knob. This fit perfectly atop the knob-board and LEDs, and spreads the light out evenly so that the knob lights almost solid now.

    I was unable to do the same thing with the buttons due to their complex shapes. But what I'm thinking is that this kind of milky white plastic material could be the beginning basis for a different style of knob. Perhaps white or even light gray, with just enough translucence to allow the light through. They could simply shine in a gray/white tone, and color could be chosen by an insert over the LEDs themselves.

    I am absolutely certain that this kind of plastic exists, as it's used in making the buttons to many car stereos with backlit buttons. Heck, I've still got a Sony CD player whose buttons are made of this kind of plastic. The only question is finding it and seeing if you can use it in your particular mold-making process.
    Posted by: tonyc

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 17:31

    Brian, as soon as this gets worked out I'm in for an order... I'd like to see a color that closely matches the "smoke" colored lens (basically the color of the VFD light itself, a *very* pale sea green) and I really want to wait until the translucency issues are worked out. But when that happens, consider me a customer.
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 19:37

    I think you're right here.

    If you look at the way that most cars do their buttons or dash illumination, they usually use milky white silicone plastic, with a colored LED behind (or white LED+filter).

    Brian, have you thought about contacting the people who make replacement cell phone keypads to find out what compound they are using? I suspect that they are silicone-based too, but you can get diffuse translucent colored keypads for cellphones, so it is possible....somehow.

    But as Tony suggested, colorless translucent buttons with a colored filter over the LED may be the way to go. Although you'd have to find someway of putting a filter over the LEDs, I'm sure that it would make the button casting aspect easier for you as you wouldn't have to create different colors for different people.
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 23:18

    Have you ever noticed how something with a lighted keypad works? For example, the lighted keypad on a telephone.

    I had been thinking along the same lines -- some milky translucent base, maybe with some other light-dispersing element in it (for some reason I have a memory of some glass microspheres used to bulk up epoxy in some applications...)

    One thing that occurs to me, though, is that the lighting in some switches and keypads I have taken apart comes from just a little bulb (small, grain-of-wheat-type things, but non-directional) that more generally lights up the area behind the button.

    I haven't lit up Brian's LEDs yet, but if they are like most I have seen, they are very directional and there will always be a limit to how much you can make them disperse, especially when they are pressed right up against the material they are illuminating.

    Anyhow, yes, Brian, I got my kit and I look forward to illuminated buttons ragardless of how much more dispersed they may become. I appreciate your persistence on this and I will volunteer as guinea pig for whatever button mutations are yet to come!

    Last-minute odd thought: Install the LEDs so they point back to the board, not out to the buttons. Purposefully inefficient, yes, but the LEDs would then be illuminating teh buttons/knob with reflected light. Would this even be feasible given the cramped circumstances? If it was, I would volunteer my unit for the experiment. (Of course, this may be pointless if the LEDs aren't directionally biased)...
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 20/03/2002 23:23

    You're right in that the LEDs are very lens-like and directional.

    But I don't think it's feasible to reverse them, and wouldn't help diffuse the light, it would only make the light dimmer but not any more diffuse.

    You don't necessarily need incandescent bulbs to do it. I know it's possible to diffused light with LEDs, as my house is full of examples of plain-old directionally-biased LEDs being properly diffused by this milky white plastic stuff I've been describing all along.
    Posted by: rtundo

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 06:33

    Is it possible to dip leds into a liquid silicone to cut the brightness and/or colorize it. I don't know if something like this could be obtained in colors or translucent etc.:

    http://www.gesilicones.com/silicones/americas/business/industries/electrical/appliances/antishatter/
    Posted by: Derek

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 09:44

    I was unable to do the same thing with the buttons due to their complex shapes.

    But aren the holes in the backs of the buttons where the switch and LED go in round? You'd have to put your piece of milky plastic at the end of this *round* hole. OK, it's going to be a real PAIN if you ever want to get it out again, but it's worth a try isn't it?

    I can't imagine milky coloured buttons looking as good as the current ones, but I guess that is something to try too.

    How about changing the plastic in the back of the button to make it concave so that it works a little like a lens to scatter the light? It might not work as well on the top lens that is very convex on the outside, but it may work on the others ...

    Some automotive switches, radios and the like also have quite complex prism/light pipe arrangements to spread the light from one source to several different places - I can imagine something like this being used to light up the knob evenly. Would be rather complicated to try and make something like this though!!!
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 11:49

    But aren the holes in the backs of the buttons where the switch and LED go in round? You'd have to put your piece of milky plastic at the end of this *round* hole.

    I actually tried this, believe it or not.

    The problem is that the little holes in the backs of the buttons aren't a simple shape. They are a complex 3D shape that integrates with the switch assembly.

    The best that I could do was to use a candle to heat up the white plastic, then "poke" a blunt instrument into the plastic to make it roughly top-of-an-LED-shape. Then the plastic would cool down and I could cut these little white "pimples" off of the plastic. I tried making them have little white "tails" that would scatter the light sideways off to the rest of the button face, but because of the way the buttons integrated with the switch assemblies, I couldn't make this tail large enough or wide enough to scatter the light properly behind the button. In the end, it simply looked like a slightly dimmer LED without much more scattering. And assembling this stuff was a complete pain in the ass, the little white bits would never stay in the buttons properly. I probably could have shaped the plastic more accurately by pushing it against the buttons themselves, but I didn't want to endanger the buttons with heat since I did not have replacements for them.

    Then I tried using some translucent white nail polish (my wife happened to have some) on the back side of the buttons. This scattered the light a little bit, but not much, because the layer of nail polish on the back of the buttons was so thin. In order to get the light to properly scatter, the entire buttons would need to be this milky plastic color instead of just a thin layer behind them.

    The reason the plastic sheet works for the knob (and it only marginally works, by the way) is because there's three LEDs there.
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 12:57

    Tony, try making a blob of 'clear' silicone rubber sealer (Ratshack sell tubes), and then when it's cured try pushing an appropriate sized blob into a button. I've been experimenting with grinding down LEDs to change the focus (marginal results), and for kicks I put a blob on the end of one...and was pleasantly surprised by the diffusion. (The blob is approx 3-4mm thick.) Unfortunately I don't yet have a button kit to try this out with

    I suggest starting with a well-cured blob cause you should be able to pull it back out with tweezers, ie non-destructive testing.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 14:46

    I have a hot glue gun that makes nice fast-drying blobs of milky clear translucent glue. That might be worth a try.

    How much can you grind off of the end of an LED without hurting it?
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 16:05


    How much can you grind off of the end of an LED without hurting it?


    Good question. I don't know for sure whether the length of the lens has any bearing on color or not. I don't think so.

    Another issue might be heat transfer through the resin that might affect the color..again I don't really know.

    (I had 2 blue LEDs, both from RatShack that were supposedly the same....unfortunately I didn't A/B them before grinding, but they are definately different hues now, and I have no idea whether the grinding might have caused this, or just Ratshack being cheap with QC and sourcing!)

    Anyway, you should be able to see the semiconductor emitter through the lens. As long as you have a visible layer of epoxy still over that you should be okay.

    The bigger issue is that you will need to polish the resin after grinding or the light output csn be attenuated quite substantially. So make sure you have the means to do this (dremels are great things).

    Try the blob without grinding the LEDs first if there is room. The silicon is definately more effective than the grinding. And it might be worth investing in a couple of LEDs for practice too
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 19:59

    I ground the LED tips with the dremel this evening. Worked very nicely to help diffuse the light. Doesn't turn the buttons magically into flat-lit buttons, but it does increase the diffusion significantly.

    Overall light output was reduced slightly, but that's OK because that's what I wanted it to do anyway.

    I tried the drop-of-glue thing, but that pretty much just put the LED back to its original lens behavior, so I took the glue off and just have LEDs with flat-ground faces now. Looks great.
    Posted by: philp69

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 20:56

    Any chance of seeing a before/after comparison?
    I just received my kit from Brian yesterday and it would be a lot easier to pre-hack the LED's.

    Thanks Tony.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 21:19

    Actually, with the dremel tool, it was very easy to grind the LEDs after they were already installed. Just had to be very careful not to let the spinning bits of the dremel's shaft touch any part of the player while I was doing it.

    Don't have any photos to show you at the moment, I'm afraid. All I can say is that griding them made the light more diffuse at the expense of a slight reduction in overall brightness. I did not polish the faces of the LEDs, I left them rough-ground.
    Posted by: philp69

    Re: Diffusion... - 21/03/2002 22:04

    Thanks - I'll give them a shot as-is and retro-hack as needed.
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Diffusion... - 22/03/2002 08:39

    I did not polish the faces of the LEDs, I left them rough-ground.

    This is an interesting thread!

    I'm guessing that when you grind the LED, you add facets to the glass that bounce light in different directions. Re-polishing it would seem to defeat the purpose.

    I also like genixia's silicon putty idea. maybe a combination of both? Unmodified, if the LED's light is focused and transmits through an air gap, it wouldn't tend to disperse, but if you can get it to disperse through ersatz facets in the LED, then disperse even further through a silicone gap (instead of air) then that seems promising. Personally, I don't care if the buttons wind up very bright. Subdued would work for me.

    Yeah, reversing the LEDs would be a stretch -- might do something on the buttons because of the white plastic surrounds, but not of any use on the SM knob LEDs ('course less of an issue there, I think...).

    I took a look at the button LEDs under a microscope and it looks like you could shave at least 1/3 of the glass without endangering the LED internals. I may have to follow genixia's advice and get a bunch of small white LEDs from Radio Shack and experiment.
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Diffusion... - 22/03/2002 11:43

    I second this motion. If a smoked color (no light) and green color (with light) is available I am going to buy it right away! :-D

    Calvin
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Diffusion... - 22/03/2002 11:46

    Maybe brian can include square tip leds with the kit?

    Calvin
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 18:52

    OK got my hack down (actually got four LED's around the volume!).... any way works great except when I turn on my headlights then the lights just kind of blink, I fixed the problem by disconnecting the "lights on wire". I'm curious as to if this is just because my Audi's factory deck automatically compensated dimness levels via a sensor? Or did I just wire something incorrectly? Like I said before everything works great until I turn on the headlights... any ideas?
    Posted by: mlord

    LED Horror Movies - 25/03/2002 19:27

    Mmm.. mine don't do that! Awesome!
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 20:02

    Odds are that your Audi uses pulse modulation on its headlight-sense wire.

    The empeg player software handles this with some fancy code that watches the headlight-sense line and smooths out the pulses, then makes an educated guess as to the state of the headlight line.

    My bet is that Mark's code doesn't do the same thing. A while back, he tried doing some debounce logic on the sensing code, and it broke the knob-illumination for me. So he took it back out.

    I don't know how the code is handled, and I don't know if the empeg's dimmer-sense logic is in the kernel or if it's in the player. So I don't know if Mark can benefit from looking at how the empeg guys handle it. But I think that their implementation is the most robust as far as I can tell.

    In the meantime, does anyone know of a simple circuit (possibly involving a capacitor) that can be soldered into the headlight-sense wire and will take care of the pulse modulation problem Lopan is having? It would need to be able to do this without screwing up the pulse on the "car" side of the connection because his dash lights would still need to function normally.
    Posted by: mlord

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 20:06

    The display-dimmer debounce I did for Tony had bugs.

    But there is 1/3 sec debounce logic on the buttonLED dimming logic already. You could try increasing that to a full second (in the source code) for better debouncing..

    Cheers
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 20:09

    We also forgot to ask Lopan if his existing dimmer (for the player screen) works properly...
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 20:23

    Well, it did, but it was sketchy... basically sometimes it'd wait a few seconds before dimming, sometimes immediate, sometimes not at all, It didn't bother me til that whole blinking light ordeal happened! But thats OK, I don't mind not having the dimmer, when it comes to trying to hack source code I revert to primitive man... scratching myself and grunting so I'll stay away from that
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Worst Movie - 25/03/2002 20:39

    I hate my audi any way so no biggie, I test drove the new Cooper Mini today and found myself thinking I need to measure the radio space to see if empeg will fit, because if it doesn't don't think I'll be buying it. After over 100 bucks in liquid plastics and molding material.... close to 100 bucks for a new display board (doh! the sad thing is I soldered the resistor array on that one perfectly but found that I'd turned the display upside down while installing the LED;s and ended up ripping some stuff off the board trying to get them out... desoldering iron from radio shack for 10 bucks would have come in handy, live and learn) then 50 bucks at digikey.... I think I'm finished messing around with this thing I now have an illuminated empeg with 4 knob led's (fills it out quite nicely), 6 sets of nice red buttons, 3 sets of blue, 2 sets of green and two sets of purple (I know it woulda been cheaper to just buy the stuff from Brian, but wheres the fun in that?)! So basically I plan on enjoying it and not really messing around with it anymore.....
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 28/03/2002 10:46

    I noticed the following ebay auction for 0.25oz of ultraglow powder in red, blue, green and aqua. It's going for $4 or $16 per ounce. It's meant to be mixed in with other stuff, and for those that are molding buttons, I think it would be excellent if you can make a set of glow in the dark buttons in various glow colors for those who want lit buttons without the hassle of installing LEDs. And for those *with* LEDs, I think dispersing glow powder in the plastic might create a softer more even glow.

    What do you think?

    Calvin
    Posted by: Alexander

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 30/03/2002 09:35

    As someone who would like glowy buttons but has big hunks of meat for hands when it comes to soldering, I think it's a great idea.

    Alex
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 30/03/2002 17:22

    Due to the fact of the white leds I use being backordered, I have found a source for diffuse white leds. I have to say these do not magically fix the diffusion of the buttons. They only add marginally to the effect. I am now also including a Mk2a knob along with the Mk2 type. I hope to have a semi large quantity of at least blue kits ready to go out around April 8th.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 30/03/2002 19:18

    Too cool!

    Let me know when you've got green.

    Here is a picture of my buttons and knob after my modifications, which included grinding down the LED tops, using some white translucent nail polish on the back of the buttons, etc. Also note that this is DarkStorm's "Smoke" faceplate. I think the blue buttons look cool against the smoke face:



    I think green buttons would look cool with this, too.
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 30/03/2002 23:27

    Here is a picture of my buttons and knob after my modifications,

    Drool!

    Well, my backup's display board is out at the solderer, but I hope it will be back soon. This *IS* to cool. Tony, I think the overall effect is great. I'm going to do a little grinding, a little nailpolishing. If it comes out anywhere near as nice as your pic, I may just faint.

    And Mk2a knobs, too, Brian! Can it get any better?
    Posted by: robricc

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 09:09

    Would these UV LEDs work with the kit? Clear buttons with the UV might look awesome (assuming you can see them).
    Posted by: genixia

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 09:19

    Those particular LEDs wouldn't - they are too large.

    Interesting idea though..
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 09:28

    Clear buttons with the UV might look awesome (assuming you can see them).

    Interesting! 'Course, if you had very clear buttons and spent a lot of time in the car, you might wind up with this odd, cross-shaped blotchy tanned spot on your forehead!

    Rather than clear, you could use these to fluoresce some of the colored fluorescent dust that has been mentioned here. How about: buttons with a just a touch of white and black pigment (to make a translucent milky grey, with some of the fluoro-dust mixed in (apparently that stuff is white in daylight).

    I might have to get a few of these just for fun. A practical consideration: I wonder if they are available in surface-mount configuration for knob illumination?
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 14:13

    It's really up to Brian. I would be pretty excited ifhe came out with glow-dust mixed buttons in various colors. Imagine putting a UV LED behind those buttons! They would light up the whole street.

    Calvin
    Posted by: Diznario

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 16:30

    How about UV LEDs, and glow in the dark buttons?

    From my experience, glow in the dark items react extremely well to black light. They start glowing the instant you get them near it, way better than using visable light. I'm not sure why this is, but it always seems to be the case.

    Now that would probably work cool, because it would be the buttons themselves that were emitting the light, not the LEDs.
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 16:35

    I have some of those powders coming in the mail and will try them out some time.
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 18:11

    Great, that would have the dual advantage of

    1) available glow in the dark buttons in various colors for people who don't want to go through with serious hardware mods

    2) if you use the White LED with glow in the dark colored buttons, when the empeg shuts down and the lights go out, the buttons will slowly fade off..... how cool is that??? Plus the glow in the dark particles will help difuse the Led light.

    3) use of UV blacklight LEDs to excite the buttons to glow brightly all by themselves. How cool is that? Plus it will be the entire button glowing, not a bright point right behind the button.

    Calvin
    Posted by: wfaulk

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 01/04/2002 22:13

    It's because there's more energy in UV than in visible light. The shorter the wavelength, the more energy there is (that is, blue has more energy than red, for example).

    Edit: I know I'm leaving a lot of variables undefined, but that's the basic idea.
    Posted by: Derek

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 02/04/2002 06:04

    3) use of UV blacklight LEDs to excite the buttons to glow brightly all by themselves. How cool is that? Plus it will be the entire button glowing, not a bright point right behind the button.

    Well actually the UV LED will most strongly excite the particles that lie directly in the light path, so the effect might not be a lot different to what you will experience with the current setup.
    Posted by: Diznario

    Particles are exciting - 02/04/2002 12:31

    That's true, but also keep in mind that the visible light that is created by the excited particles will not be aligned in the same way, and should be uniformly dispersed from their point of origin.

    In other words, just because the UV light went in one side, and came out the other, along a specific path, doesn't mean that the visible light emanating from the glow particles that got excited along the way is going to follow the same path. Each individual glow particle should send out light in all directions, regardless of what direction the light that excited it came from.

    So, the visible light should be much more dispersed, because it will be emanating from many, many points inside the material itself, in every direction, instead of all coming from basically the same point, and in mostly the same direction.

    Uhmmm... I hope this makes sense... I'm sorta tired today...
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 02/04/2002 14:55

    LED Size is 3mm T1 Through hole. Just to throw that info out there.
    Posted by: lopan

    my install - 03/04/2002 07:41

    Just wanted to put a few photos out there.... heres one in the car...
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 07:43

    another in the car... close up, good shot of the volume knob
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 07:49

    On my desk at work.... yes... slayer....
    Posted by: Diznario

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 09:45

    You're just goin all out there, aren't you? Blood red faceplate and buttons, listening to Slayer, with Casualty as the visual...

    Nice. Good combo.






    Aaaarrgh! All you guys postin these pics is gonna make me buy somthin I can't afford right now... damn damn damn...
    Posted by: crazymelki

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 09:45

    cool! my buttons are on the way....

    bye
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 10:53

    Suh-wheet.

    Hey, what's the little thing in between the empeg and the climate controls on the dashboard?
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 12:11

    Thanks! The little grill like thingie... (if thats what your talkin bout) is the temperature sensor for the climate control... Yeah about the slayer and blood red and all... I was having a bad day, what can I say...
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 03/04/2002 12:59

    about diffusion, I had really excellent results by grinding the front of the buttons down to a rounded surface... I also filled in the backs to where the LED's bareley have enough room to fit after being pushed... I only finished one button last night, so I didn't take any pictures but I'll try to finish them up and get pictures up.... it didn't difuse all the way but did fill in a lot better than what I've seen so far but your left with a shiny round button... (I think is kinda cool looking), If I get some time tonight I'll try to finish and post some pics
    Posted by: declain

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 03/04/2002 22:21

    People are starting to get these...How do I get one???
    Posted by: AndrewT

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 01:58

    You need to email him directly. At the top of the thread is a link to Brian's site. You will find his email address on the site (I deliberately kept it off this post in case the webcrawlers snaffle it).
    Posted by: Nosferatu

    Re: my install - 04/04/2002 05:08

    I'd like also a Red Button Lights Kit ....

    If I want , do I have to only ask CrazyMelki the color I want or is it a special kit ?




    (I like Dead skin Mask ...)
    Posted by: Nosferatu

    Re: my install - 04/04/2002 05:13

    I said crazymelki, but it's Brian .......
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 09:44

    The kits are slowly appearing. So don't expect a reply right away. I will only take payment if I have a kit ready to send out.
    Posted by: pgrzelak

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 10:00

    Greetings!

    Has there been any progress on other colors? I know we have seen blue and red. Any thoughts or progress with amber, green or "smoke"?
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 13:54

    I've made green and purple buttons, and accidentally made red and white marbled buttons last night (basically mixed my plastic incorrectly or got foreign material in the mix) they kinda look cool plain, not so great with backlight. I would post more pictures but the flash on my digital camera is broken and is having adverse effects. Hopefully soon I can replace it.
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 14:22

    Green is to come this weekend, and hopefully amber. As for smoke, I could make smoke colored buttons but the led doesn't have the same spectrum as the VFD. I want to be able to provide two different types for each color. One that matches the lens and one that mimics the lens plus VFD color.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 04/04/2002 14:44

    I would like to see smoke colored buttons that deliberately did not match the spectrum of the VFD. The illumination is my car is mostly a grayish white with green hints and accents here and there. Smoke colored buttons would match my car's dash perfectly, and the greenish-cyan illumination of the VFD under the smoke faceplate matches the accents. I think it would look awesome.
    Posted by: grgcombs

    Re: Translucent Button Kits [who to send to?] - 04/04/2002 16:00

    Ok, for those who have kits or are ordering them, who are you going to use to do all the solder work? I'm assuming not everyone here is an expert at this sort of thing (I'm certainly not), and I'd be a little wary of touching any of my empegs with a soldering iron.

    Is there a type of shop or outlet that would do this sort of thing for me?

    Greg
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Translucent Button Kits [who to send to?] - 04/04/2002 16:43

    Is there a type of shop or outlet that would do this sort of thing for me?

    Unlikely. You're going to have to beg the service from good solderers on this BBS. Perhaps there can be soldering parties at every owner's meet?
    Posted by: grgcombs

    Re: Translucent Button Kits [who to send to?] - 04/04/2002 16:59

    A Soldering party sounds fun, anyone in Dallas handy with liquid metal?

    Greg
    Posted by: msaeger

    Re: Translucent Button Kits [who to send to?] - 04/04/2002 19:43

    wasn't mark offering to do them for 50 dollars or something like that ?
    Posted by: traintrax

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 06:26

    lopan,

    Do I see 4 LEDs behind the knob? How did you do that?

    Thanks..
    Posted by: pgrzelak

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 06:31

    Greetings!

    I saw that too... I thought I was going nuts...
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 07:00

    Yes, 4 LED's, basically the only thing I bought from Brian was a knob board everything else I got from digikey in bulk. So I took brians LED board checked the layout and how it worked, went to radio shack bought a PCB board, used brians board to trace and get the general shape (so it would fit) then on my newly fashioned LED board started soldering resistors and surface mount LED's, it's really kind of simple. All LED's get a 100 ohm reisistor on the positive and all share the same ground, then basically the transistor has three conectors... 5v in, signal and 5v going to the LED's, the signal is fed through a 560 ohm resistor and thats it. The biggest problem was getting all the connections made without bridging something (I have no idea how to etch a pcb) but actually got everything laid out and connected properly first try. I would suggest buying the kit from brian though, I didn't do it because I knew he was really busy and I think that kind of stuff is fun, but I ran into issues getting the right parts and all that. But I have all the part numbers now if any one wants to try it on their own.
    Posted by: lectric

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 08:06

    Tracing your own pcb is actually quite easy. Doing one that SMALL may not be. ;8^)
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 10:38

    Interesting!

    I didn't plan on telling anyone I'd done this, but since we're sharing... I did something similar.

    I wanted the spacing between the three LEDs to be closer to "even". There's nothing wrong with Brian's knob-board (like I said, it's a tiny little work of art), but the three LEDs are not perfectly symmetrical around the shaft. As part of my experiments in trying to make the knob glow more diffuse, I decided I would mess with the placement of the LEDs.

    So I did something totally insane, which happened to work really well.

    I desoldered the entire knob-board and wired the components "loose" with tiny bits of wire. Then I placed them inside a piece of clear shrink-tubing and "wrapped" that tube around the shaft of the knob. Took me only three tries to get the wire lengths correct.

    Then I colored the back side of the clear shrink-tubing with black marker so that there was less light leakage into the face area. Works great. Lights are now more symmetrical around the shaft and I don't have as much of a dead spot on one side.

    I wouldn't recommend this to everyone, because it's easy to get something to short out when doing this. I suppose one could fry their display board if this stuff shorted or something.
    Posted by: lopan

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 11:35

    Too cool.... that does sound insane, you gotta get a picture of that up!
    Posted by: eternalsun

    Re: Translucent Button Kits - 05/04/2002 11:39

    Can you "coat" the inside of a smoke colored button with green to achieve the effect?

    Calvin
    Posted by: jimhogan

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 11:39

    I didn't plan on telling anyone I'd done this, but since we're sharing...

    If S|B now has fellows, I think that this BBS needs something like a Mad Scientist Award for stunts like this. Categories, too: Best Original Solder, Best Really-Intriguing-But-Completely-Useless Gratuitous ("I had to try it!!") Hack.

    Hmmm. What would the statuette look like and what would it be called?
    Posted by: traintrax

    Re: my install - 05/04/2002 19:51

    Brian,

    Any chance of you doing a 4 LED board?

    Posted by: lofreq

    Re: my install - 29/04/2002 22:36

    hi - this really is a message for brian - i have been hanging out for an update on this but nothing so far so i guess it doesnt hurt to ask again - but i am also interested in the possibility of a 4 led knob board? or, a slightly modified 3 led board to give more equal 'triangular' spacing...? i understand the current design allowed for the board to 'work around' the other bits and pieces it fits inbetween but after staring at it for hours i can imagine how it might have been possible to twist into a better shape

    im no electronics specialist so forgive me if what im asking is just too infeasible for the cost involved - it really is only a cosmetic thing - but id still be interested to hear (from anyone) if it will be possible.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: my install - 29/04/2002 22:40

    Brian's knob board is fine as-is. After messing with the LED spacing myself, it really didn't change much. I wouldn't expect Brian to make any changes in the design.

    I'm quite happy with the overall lighting and diffusion of my knobs and buttons after having frosted the LEDs by griding their tops (Brian's new kits will have pre-frosted LEDs) and using the white plastic as a diffuser behind the knob.
    Posted by: lofreq

    Re: my install - 30/04/2002 16:28

    thanks tony

    any chance of a photo/closeup of your 3 LED shrinkwrap mod, and how u have diffused the knob? it sounds semi crazy but also very cool . what you have used for the 'white plastic' diffuser? i will probably go ahead and order the kit from brian but will definitely want to use the diffusion trick for the knob...

    im probably assuming its alot more complex than it actually is...
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: my install - 30/04/2002 16:32

    Yes, I posted photos of those in another thread. Don't have the link to it ATM. Anyone else?
    Posted by: skritch

    Can we still get them? - 09/05/2002 20:48

    Is there any way to still get the button kits? I've emailed Brian several times, but have received no response.
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Can we still get them? - 09/05/2002 22:52

    As Brian states on his page, he will respond to the emails as kits become available. Meaning yes, he is still making kits, he's just working through the backlog in FIFO order. You will not receive an e-mail reply until such time as he's ready to fill your order.
    Posted by: skritch

    Re: Can we still get them? - 09/05/2002 22:56

    Ah. There's my misunderstanding. My reading of that was that he'd contact those that have requested them when they become available. As I have no idea how to go about requesting them (is there a form to fill out? What's the price? How can I pay?) I figured I didn't fall into that category.

    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Can we still get them? - 09/05/2002 23:08

    Brian, I think this is the second query we've gotten here on the BBS with essentially this same text? Perhaps a re-wording of the text on the page along the lines of:

    "As kits become available, I will reply to each email request on a first-come-first-served basis. You will only receive an e-mail reply with ordering details when I am ready to fill your particular order. These button sets are cast one at a time, by hand, so there will be a delay between the time you email me and the time you get a reply."

    ?
    Posted by: bmihulka

    Re: Can we still get them? - 10/05/2002 13:03

    Will do, I'm going to steal your text. If you want credit let me know
    Posted by: tfabris

    Re: Can we still get them? - 10/05/2002 15:07

    Cool.

    No credit needed.