Empeg + second head unit (+ amp?) + Volvo V70 Help

empeg newbie + car audio newbie = FireFox31. That said, I'm trying have an installer drop an empeg and a second CD/radio head unit into the glorious >double DIN opening in my Volvo V70. No, I would not like to give out details if possible because of fears of serial empeg stealers like those that may have hit Loren.

The V70 has a slide-out double DIN headunit (with amp, I'm assuming) in which the empeg fits NICELY with enough room for a second unit. I'm not sure if I should use empeg as secondary to a head unit with a built in amp or if I should just spring for the separate amp (which I kind of don't want to do). Any recommendations on a simple looking, black, CD/Radio/Amp (or MP3CD/CD/Radio/Amp) headunit with a decent Amp?

But, if I get the external amp, I can't decide on the chain. Both options have their situations, as I read in the FAQ. Since I NEED the radio without the empeg, I'll have to have the empeg as secondary.

But, cutting out the empeg's cool volume / EQ controls seems like a crying shame. So, could I use the empeg volume / EQ to control the empeg while it's AUX on a second headunit? Would that help shape the empeg sound or not? That way I'd at least have good EQ (and cool dB rated volume) on the empeg if nothing else.

But, are there any simple external amps that have the ability to switch between two head units? That would be i-diddley-deal for my situation. And how can they switch, with a push button and hopefully NOT a remote (since I'm not a remote kinda guy)?

Oh, and does anyone have any ideas of how in the WORLD I would wire two head units and maybe an external amp in my crazy Swedish brick of a car? How can I split the power to two head units AND power the amp? How do I use ignition sense on both units? Or will my installer know all of this?

Thanks so much, I love this BBS, and I look forward to my time with the empeg community.

Two HUs to one amp is probably easiest and cleanest solved by a Sony XA-39II switch. It gives you 2 sets of 4 RCA inputs and 2 inputs for remote turn on. On the output you get one set of 4 RCA outputs and one remote turn on. One of the input sets is "master" - if this remote turn on is active its RCA channels will be switched through to the output independent of what the other input is doing. If inactive it allows the other inputs through.

/Michael

Michael,

Thanks for the recommendation. I found references to the Sony XA-39 (MK2, II, ii???) on the BBS with further searching. Sorry for the hasty post. Now I just need one of these devices.

(edit: For future reference, though the Sony's are gone, some "source switching relays" are still out there. Precision Interface Electronics makes the MPSS-4 and it seems to be very similar to the Sony XA-39 II, and almost as cheap. Put "469MPSS4" into the crutchfield search bar for more info)

I already frightened one car audio installer with my idea so I'm sure I'll be back in here for help if I end up doing it myself (which I sure hope I don't, for the empeg's sake).

As to your question on splitting power and ignition sense - you simply connect both HUs to the wires in the car. This might cause some problems though, depending on how beefy the wires are - you might have to run a new heavier gauge constant +12V wire from the battery to reliably power both units. Same goes for the ground wire - it might be insufficient, but that one only needs to go to a solid piece of metal that's part of the cars metal shell (some have been fooled by relatively large pieces of metal embedded in the dash...) not the battery.

Two HUs and an amp shouldn't scare an installer - I had a JVC radio-cassette player feeding into the AUX in on the empeg for a while, two amps (mids/highs and sub) without any problem. (But I do consider myself not totally lost around electricity...)
The main pain with installations are, IMHO, the mechanical disassembly required to get the wires routed...

/Michael

mtempsch,

(I figure I should use handles so that I get more familiar with them). Thanks for the information. I, too, am worried about routing the wiring. The double din factory radio slides right out like a dream and the two new ones can probably just drop right in. Ah, but the wiring...

Well, we'll see. Thanks again for the advice. I'm trying to have this installed by 10/20; one month after it arrived. I'll let ya'll know how it goes (with pics, maybe).

I'm looking to hookup my empeg with my factory head unit as well for use of it's tuner and stock CD player. Now that it's getting colder out, I sometimes run into the "hard disk not found" error, so it would be nice to be able to use my factory head when the empeg is out of the car.

That said, I'm looking for a Sony XA-39II. Crutchfield doesn't have them, but they do have the PIE MPSS-4 as firefox said. Anyone know what happens if both my factory head and the empeg are on? Will the MPSS-4 have a "master" input that would take precedence? A crutchfield advisor didn't seem to have an answer. They told me, it may play both or may switch back and forth between the 2 very quickly.

Do any of the Sony XA-39 owners know if there is a "master" input on it? Anyone know where I can find a XA-39 now?

Thanks all!

First I've ever heard of a Crutchfield phone person being clueless like that without checking with their techs.

I've never owned one of these things. But if it were me designing the device, I would design it so that the last thing that was powered-on would take precedence. No flickering back and forth, that would be bad design.

And if it had the ability to play both of the devices, that would mean it was a mixer instead of a relay. It would actually be really cool if it did that. But I doubt it.

Now that it's getting colder out, I sometimes run into the "hard disk not found" error, so it would be nice to be able to use my factory head when the empeg is out of the car.

And let me just say that if you're getting that error, something is flat-out wrong and should be fixed.

Whether the "wrong" thing is one of these problems, or it's your desire to leave your fragile hard disks out in the cold, either way, the situation should be corrected.

Sorry, I should have said, the Crutchfield advisor did check with his techs and they didn't have an answer if one input would take precedence over the other.

It is not my desire to leave my hard disks out in the cold, which is why I want to hook up the factory radio as well. The empeg usually stays in the house now.

Do any of the Sony XA-39 owners know if there is a "master" input on it?

When I had a XA-39 it worked like this: My kenwood HU was "master" and Empeg was "secondary". So long as the HU was powered on, it played through the XA-39. When I powered the HU off, it would switch to the Empeg if Empeg was connected.

This was good behavior as it allowed me to power up the Empeg and turn the output way, way down before turning off HU and switching to the Empeg. Since I would have the output set to max for home use, I generally had to go through this maneuver or suffer bad speaker juju.

Anyone know where I can find a XA-39 now?

Sorry, no. I haven't yet seen one come up on eBay, but I expect one will someday.

The Sony switch was indeed a master-slave config where one input overrode the other (at least according to all descriptions I've seen of it).

Looking at this text from Crutchfield;

The inputs must be connected to the amp remote (or power antenna) lead from at least one source to switch back and forth properly.

the same is most likely true for the PIE too. If it only needs one remote out connected and still function properly, it'll switch to those associated outputs when that remote output is active, and when not, switch back to the other outputs. Most likely the actual switching elements are relays, and they'll only allow one set outputs to be active at a time. If (which I find highly unlikely) the control inputs would indeed fight each other - just disconnect the one from the "slave" unit, and according to the description above, it'll work correctly.

/Michael

I use the sony switch fo listen to my CD when the empeg's not in the car. I posted a description of the wiring here: http://empeg.comms.net/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=install&Number=29400&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

One of the channels takes precidence over the other so if they're both powered the first channel will play.

I don't know where you can find one now though.

-Zeke

i have a sony head unit as well as a Rio and an MTX amp.
I hooked the Sony into the Rio then into the AMp and lost no flexibility at all with my components. In fact, even though I had a tuner for the Rio, I took it out and I am using the tuner on the Sony...MUCH better reception....

Maybe I should put the tuner up for auction!!!!!

Except that essseye wants to use his non-empeg HU without the empeg in the car. I agree about the Sony tuners. They can't be beat. Too bad every Sony I've ever owned has died within three years.

-Zeke

Do any of the Sony XA-39 owners know if there is a "master" input on it? Anyone know where I can find a XA-39 now?

As Jim said, there are primary and secondary inputs. If both head units are on, then the primary input has precedence. Otherwise, whichever single input is on has access to the amplifier. If both head units are off, then the amp is turned off (assuming you use the remote amp turn-on from the Sony switch.)

I have two cars with Sony Switches in them. I bought one of then used -- was that from you, Jim? I think maybe it was...

tanstaafl.

I bought one of then used -- was that from you, Jim? I think maybe it was...

Actually, I wasn't able to deinstall it in time, so I wound up selling it to gent named Michael from the BBS who, IIRC, was also going to install it on a boat and was either heading to New Zealand or moving there or something.

For XA-39 seekers I would again ephasize that -- if you power up the Empag alone with output levels set to home line-out settings -- you may let the smoke out of your speakers!

I emailed PIE, and this was their response:
"Our MPSS-4 does have a master enslave inputs. When the master unit is ON, the slave unit is OFF. When the master unit is OFF, the slave unit is ON."

I'll try to remember to come back to this post and report my findings if I try the PIE unit out.

I'll try to remember to come back to this post and report my findings if I try the PIE unit out.

Looks like it'll work just like the XA-39. Don't forget to perform "Jim's Super 0dB Speaker Test" and report back!

esssseye,

Yeah, the Sony XA39 series is nowhere to be found. Of course, one sold on EBay for $5 just a few days before I knew it ever existed. So, keep your eyes on EBay for it.

Optionally, you can get the somewhat shady PIE MPSS-4 like I did. I am happy with it controling my empeg and Alpine HU. Though I can't explain the wiring (since my installer did it), here's my take on how it works:

The MPSS-4 allows for a primary and secondary audio source.
The primary is always powered on. When the primary is sending an audio signal, the secondary unit is powered off and the MPSS-4 sends the primary's signal to the amp.
When the primary is mute (or something like it stops a signal on the amp sense wire or something), the secondary unit powers on, the primary unit stays powered on, and te MPSS-4 sends the secondary's signal to the amp.

Please note, since I didn't do the install, I may have "primary" and "secondary" switched in the above explanation. However, the above explanation is the logic for the MPSS-4.

So yeah, why DOES it power down the secondary unit? Who knows, but eventually you learn to deal. But because of this power-off deal, you'll want to make sure your empeg is on the always-powered-on line (primary, I'm guessing). That's the way mine is done. empeg powers up and sends signal to the amp. To switch, I just put the empeg into standby (by holding the top button) and my Alpine HU powers on and sends signal to the amp. The empeg stays in standby. If I touch any button on the empeg, the signal IMMEDIATELY switches back to the empeg and the second HU powers off. So, yeah, it takes a second or two to switch from empeg to radio, but it's instant when going back to the empeg.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please ask. If you want, I can even scan the MPSS-4 install sheet(s) and post them (if that's legal). My installers had no friggin clue about the empeg or the MPSS-4 but they managed to install it all perfectly with those directions. Good luck!

I managed to do exactly what you want to do with a couple of relays in a little black box and a little basic soldering. It worked great in my Range Rover and cost about a tenner.

My wife was still able to use the radio/cassette/CDchanger when I had the Empeg in my car, which was the main point of the exercise.. I also worked out a circuit to feed the HU through the aux with no switches, but decided to sell the car before I got round to fitting it.

You'll find more on a thread very near to this one. I'm not very high tec., if you want the circuit, send me a personal message with a fax number!

I'd be interested to see those instructions.

I'd have expected it to be a plain switch of the audio channels and a combining of the amp remote wire - not messing with the power wires to the units...
Might just be a question of how your installed wired things...

/Michael

Interesting. That sounds significantly different from the Sony. The Sony does not involve itself in determining which HU has power, only which signal is passed to the amps. If I have both HU's on the Primary takes precedence, regardless of what the secondary is doing.

-Zeke

Zeke,
I wished the PIE MPSS4 worked that way. I hate having my radio shut off when the empeg is playing. I'm really a ricer at heart because I want to see both units' pretty colors in my dash.

mem,
I'll scan them and post them. Yeah, I don't know how they mess with the power either. I thought my installer had messed it up, but I confirmed that it is the correct behavior with PIE's tech support.

Boxer,
The "source switching relay" from PIE cost like $15 I think. And the Sony XA39 has sold on EBay for $5 (if you can find it). So, the PIE is the hands down winner for me since there are no more Sonys and I can't make my own.

Here are the instructions for the PIE-MPSS4. Sorry it took me so long to post them, things have been kind of crazy.

big printable version
small viewable version

Looks like if you ignore parts of the wiring instructions it'll work "as expected" ie not turn off the slave HU. I'd be very surprised if the switch would have a problem with there being signals coming in on both sets of RCAs simultaneously.

I'd hook up the amp remote outputs to the switch as described (and RCAs), but not use any wires from the switch to power/turn on any of the HUs. Instead split the existing (or run new) power / accessory wires and connect the HUs to those.

Also, doesn't look like there's a useable wire from the switch to run to the amps remote turn on. Easily resolved with 2 1N400x diodes to tie the 2 remote turn on wires together into a single wire to use to turn on amps or power a relay (to create a more powerful remote turn on).

/Michael