Stock "internal amps". Myth?

I've always been curious about the "myth" that: A majority of cars have a stock amp burried somewhere in their dash; not built in to their stock head unit. Is this true? Is there a general set of manufacturers that do this? And... why would they?

The only stock radio I know is my 2000 Volvo one. It was a double din and sure seemed to have the amp built in to it. So I wonder, if the vast majority of aftermarket headunits can have amps inside, then why don't stock head units do the same? Wouldn't it be more costly to include an external amp in a stock car?

And it all boils down to: How can an empeg be powered by this mythical burried amp WHILE the stock headunit is out? Does the wiring harnass accept line-level outputs that go to the amp (as opposed to my notion that it accepts speaker-level outputs that go straight to the speakers)?

I may be helping my friend put his new dual-sled empeg into a Lincoln and a Geo (fun combo, eh?) which both supposedly have the mythical amp.

I don't think most cars have a built in seperate amp. When they do many times you have to use some kind of converter to convert the line level outputs from the empeg to whatever the amp wants.

You could also just add a regular amp and rewire the speakers to it and not use the built in one at all.

I think it depends on the options on the vehicle. My truck had the RF option installed, which was some fancy pants thing with a sub. It had a seperate amp buried in the dash that my installer just bypassed, rather than ripping it out.

I've always been curious about the "myth" that: A majority of cars have a stock amp burried somewhere in their dash;

No, this is not true. Such cars exist, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Usually they are the top-of-the-line cars with the "premium" factory sound systems, but even the premium cars don't always have extra amps. It depends entirely on the manufacturer and the system.

Most of the time, the amplifier is built in to the head unit itself, like most aftermarket head units. Sometimes, the amplification is in an outboard amp. Sometimes, the outboard amp only powers some of the speakers while the others are driven by the head unit.

> I've always been curious about the "myth" that: A majority
> of cars have a stock amp burried somewhere in their dash;
> not built in to their stock head unit. Is this true? Is there a
> general set of manufacturers that do this?

It's usually the "upper" trim lines and/or cars that come with the "premium" sound systems that have the amp as a separate unit vs. built into the head. Therefore a *minority* of cars, not a majority.

Also, the separate amps are often installed in the boot/trunk or other places vs. the dash.

> And... why would they?

Well, perhaps for two reasons I can think of:

1. heat dissipation: the premium systems are typically higher-output and often more than four-channel systems and therefore give off more heat.

2. More flexibility in in-dash offerings: even if the premium OEM double-din head unit currently available for the car has no more features than the non-premium OEM single-din unit, they had the options, during development, to stick a bunch more features in that space because the amps were elsewhere. But perhaps their analysis of the market dictated that no extra features were really warranted.

> So I wonder, if the vast majority of aftermarket headunits
> can have amps inside, then why don't stock head units do
> the same?

Again, I think this is for year-to-year marketing flexibility.

> Wouldn't it be more costly to include an external
> amp in a stock car?

Yes, but they are typically found in the upper trim lines and/or extra cost items. The head unit alone for my Element EX costs over $600 (at discount...nearer to $800 list) and is just a tuner/cd-player with 5 channel line level out. So yeah, the setup costs the manufacturer more, but they pass that cost, and a lot more, on to the buyer.

> And it all boils down to: How can an empeg be powered by
> this mythical burried amp WHILE the stock headunit is out?

empeg powed by an amp??? I assume you meant to say "how can an empeg send music through the...amp". The answer is: by connecting it via harnesses/wires. Typically, the amp would be expecting line-level outs, which the empeg generates.

> Does the wiring harnass accept line-level outputs that go to
> the amp (as opposed to my notion that it accepts speaker-
> level outputs that go straight to the speakers)?

typically, yes.

-brendan

Mine had the amp/crossover as part of the front speakers.. :<

Thanks for the interesting answers everyone. So, I'll guess my friend's Lincoln, though high end, won't have an internal amp. And his Geo? Hell no it won't. Well, that stinks... he bought the empeg assuming that he had the mythical internal amp to just connect the empeg to.

Hm...... what if... the stock head unit could be ripped apart and shoved somewhere in the dash, using it purely for its amp. Sure, this varies by make and model, but I wonder... Ah, I'll just have to read up and see what Crutchfield tells me.

Thanks again.

I would just buy an amp. You don't have to get a super high powered expensive one.

Hm...... what if... the stock head unit could be ripped apart and shoved somewhere in the dash, using it purely for its amp.

Like Matt said... at that point, it's MUCH easier just to buy and install a cheap amp.

and any cheap amp will probably perform better than the tiiny amps inside the head unit.

Hey - there are some nice amps in OEM head units

Mind you, it would still be a bit of a nightmare using an OEM unit as the hidden amp. You would have to preset it to it's aux input (if it has one) and all the right volume levels etc. Buying a dedicated amp has got to be worth the save in hassle...

Geo likely didn't even have it as an option. The Lincoln is definitely worth checking out though.

I won't try to guess %ages, but over the years of helping friends install stereos, I've seen LOTS of stock amps. My Eclipse had it under the opassenger seat, my Ford Probe had one near the rear wheel well. I've seen them in the trunk and in the dash as well.

I guess my point is to agree that it's more likely on a "premium" system, but never rule it out on any car (aside from say a Yugo). If you're already buying from Crutchfield, ask them what they have in their database on it.

One thing to watch out for is that the factory amps aren't always compatable with aftermarket plans. At a minimum you'll need a special adapter, at worst you'll find that it has certain built-in equalizing or other "features" that you can't stand, and can't bypass.

Cool, thanks for the tip. Now I have opinions weighing on either side. Well, only time will tell once the sleds get installed.

MY Miata had the Bose sound system with remote amps..couldnt even find them so bypassed it with an alpine and MTX

my daughters mustang had the Mach sound system with amps all over the place..needed special wiring harness which would take the line level outs and feed them into the OEM wiring harness otherwise the system was horrible...sounds great now..that is until she totalled the car.....*sigh*

MY Miata had the Bose sound system with remote amps..couldnt even find them so bypassed it...

It's deep in the depths of the dash.. I hate useless weight but it's not worth the effort to get to it for a pound.

Both my Supras had an external amp, located under the passenger seat. I can't imagine why, considering how crap the factory speakers were.

Of course the whole lot was ripped out at the earliest opportunity.

Rob

My A4 w/bose "premium" option has an external amp in the trunk behind one of the side panels. It powers all four speakers and the teeny tiny sub that came with the car. The stock option (non-bose) has a lower power external amp to power the rear speakers and sub, while the fronts are powered off the head unit.

Having the amp in the trunk was nice because I was able to tap into the line-level inputs and make RCA jacks to feed the sub that I just installed. The only wire I had to run was power (and I didn't even remove any panels to run that).