Tercel Tribulations

I just stopped by my personal favorite stereo store to find a new head unit for my Empeg installation. They were out of the unit I was interested in, so I stopped by my second favorite. While the first choice seemed unfamiliar with the Empeg, these guys not only had heard of it, but said they had done about five in the last month... (any one here from the East Side of Seattle?)

They said they would be happy to install the unit for me. When I told them I had a Toyota Tercel the installer said that was bad news. He claimed the Empeg does not fit in the Toyota ISO bay well at all. In fact, he claimed the last one he did stuck out about half an inch and looked really ugly. Something to do with "those guys make them to look good in German Cars only..."

I can't believe this... Has anyone had this problem with their installation? Is there some trick to get it to fit better? This guy really seemed to know his stuff. I would rather not take his suggestion to "buy another car..."

On a similar note, can anyone from the Seattle area recommend a good installer...?

I think I'm going to cry...
Brian

I think I read somewhere that the Toyota iso connector has a security face in front of it, so that theives can't get to your head unit - unfortunately this also means that you can't pull out the empeg, which is definately required.... Do a search on toyota on this BBS - you'll see the actual posts and how some users got around the problems..
-mark

MK2: 36gb
Tivo 90gb
Computer: 120gb disk space
...I think drive manufactureres love me!

I knew it.........

Sorry man, mine came out descent but I had trim the actual dash. Doesn't stick out though. empeg didn't count on Toyota's dashes being so uncooperative. This is why other manufacturers have thinner faces or removable trim around the face. I didn't like my install (cutting the dash mainly) but it turned out OK and I'd rather have the bigger face/handle. If your stock radio looks similar to mine in this thread you are in for a rough time :(

Alex Lear

He claimed the Empeg does not fit in the Toyota ISO bay well at all.

As Dionysus said, the problem with certain models of car is that the plastic bezel that goes in front of the radio is smaller than the radio itself. This makes it impossible for pullout radios to be pulled out. It's not just Toyotas, and it's not just a problem with the Empeg.

Some car manufacturers just figured that the pullout style had long since been supplanted by the removable faceplate style, and there was no need to try to support the pullout style. But be assured that this isn't an empeg-specific problem. Any full-pullout radio (such as a certain Sony I've got in the closet) would have the same trouble in such vehicles.

The reason the stereo shop said that the last one "stuck out half an inch" is because they (or the car's owner) weren't willing to do any cutting of the dash plastic to give the radio room to pull out. Having done this sort of thing on my old Volkswagen, I know that it's possible to do without it looking like complete crap. You just have to cut very carefully and straight, and be able to smooth the edges down with superfine grit sandpaper (and, when I did it, wet steel wool, too). Here is a link to someone who did something similar in their Subaru Forrester. Perhaps you or your installer can try it?

Another possibility is that you might be able to find an aftermarket company which makes a dash bezel kit which gives enough room for the pullout. I don't know if this is true, but try poking around the 'net for Toyota aftermarket custom shops, or maybe even those companies which specialize in replacement woodgrain dash bezels.

If you do decide to go the "cutting" route, try to get pictures of the procedure and post them here for the benefit of other Toyota owners.

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Tony Fabris

Some car manufacturers just figured that the pullout style had long since been supplanted by the removable faceplate style, and there was no need to try to support the pullout style

..and in doing so they have broken the DIN standard, and can nolonger claim to have a DIN mounting bay. Luckily I haven't heard of many cases of this.

Rob

Gosh! Most people sound distressed about an install, I too have a 4 runner and had to trim the dash bezel.No big deal.
Ironically, I had previously owned a pullout(which I trimmed the dash for),and replaced it with a detachable unit.When I did so, I had to replace the trimmed dash bezel,and subsequently threw it away,thinking I would never need it again.(Obviously I was wrong) Anything is possible, it just depends on how bad you want it!
I have installed several dozen stereos in odd places for myself and friends. For example: cutting out and removing heater vents and ducts, ashtrays,gloveboxes,modifying seat frames,kick panels, so on and so on. Like I say it just depends on how bad you want it, and how creative you can get.
I will say though, if you aren't confident in any install,seek a professional. Downside is.......it'll cost ya!

Mk2 #105 12g blue
Car install complete...waiting patiently...again(extra sled for boat)

I don't think its that bad for car manufacturers to trade pullout capability for security. Pull out stereo's seem to be rare, right?

In my case I was distressed about cutting the dash. It wasn't a little piece either, it was a little trim on a big part of the dash.

Alex Lear

I don't think its that bad for car manufacturers to trade pullout capability for security.

The trim-piece-smaller-than-the-radio thing has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with security. I've had two stereos stolen, and in both cases, the thieves used brute force and blunt instruments (in one case forcing their way into my trunk with a crowbar) to extract the desired equipment. Significant replacement of large sections of the dashboard were required in both cases. A little piece of trim plastic isn't going to stop a thief.

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Tony Fabris

"I don't think its that bad for car manufacturers to trade pullout capability for security."

Uh... I don't know about you, but I can get to my current head unit in the Tercel with my hands alone. I don't see how it adds to security?

In fact I used to work as a security guard and every stereo theft I observed seemed to cut through anything that was in the way. They never seemed to be interested in how much plastic needed to be destroyed.

In fact, I have an ex-girlfriend who had THREE stereos stolen from two different cars in the course of our relationship. Two window smash-->dash cuts, one doorlock jimmy-->dash cut. Some gals have all the luck...

Thanks for all of your observations... I now believe the guy was referring to an installation without cutting the dash. I am really eager to get this 36GB baby into my car too. I guess I'll have to do some "plastic surgery" on poor old Dexter...

Brian

..and in doing so they have broken the DIN standard, and can nolonger claim to have a DIN mounting bay. Luckily I haven't heard of many cases of this.

The problem's pretty widespread - all Toyotas in particular. DIN standards are pretty widespread, but still not something manufacturers adhere to very strictly. Most Japanese cars use non-DIN side mountings. All of the mainstream aftermarket ICE manufacturers allow for this by providing side mounting provision on their units. Something that's far less easy with a pull-out unit. In most cases (Nissan, Mazda, etc) it's not too much of a problem, as you can remove the OE unit and install a DIN unit from the front of the dash, but Toyota seem determined to continue using the side mount system. With most of their vehicles, mounting a removable DIN unit means widening the dash aperture slightly.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

The trim-piece-smaller-than-the-radio thing has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with security.

I would diasagree Tony and heres why:

The trim piece on my vehicle may look small but its actually part of a much bigger piece. Even if you could cut away the area around the radio, it mounts on screw/bolts from the side. Its not in a cage that can be pulled out. This means that the entire piece has to be taken off which would require a lot of cutting possibly even a power tool. A crow bar can be quite effective too. Even after taking off the rigid plastic surround, it may not be easy to get the screws off if you've replaced them with "special" screws. You know, the ones that can only be turned one way.

My point is that stereo's that mount from the front can often be pulled out just as easily through the front. The metal strap is usually not installed correctly or at all because some people are too lazy. Some radios only require a special shaped rod to disengage the radio from it's cage.

It all boils down to how determined a theif is and how much of a pain it is to get what he/she wants. If I were a theif I would certainly pass up a Toyota 4Runner for a Honda Accord anyday. I have been a victim once myself. These days my equipment is mounted very securely and I have a custom built security system.

Alex Lear

Even after taking off the rigid plastic surround, it may not be easy to get the screws off if you've replaced them with "special" screws.

All of that stuff is wonderful for frustrating the thief...

...AFTER he's already caused thousands of dollars worth of damage to your car. Honestly, the theft of the radio is the least of my worries in that situation. Hell, it's the easiest thing in the world to replace, assuming you're insured.

No, the hard part is replacing the window (the new one never fits quite right and you get leaks), getting all the broken glass out of your car (you never do, you keep finding bits of it), replacing the torn up dash (the repair people never quite get the new one in correctly and it squeaks and rattles), having to deal with the claims adjuster, having to be without a car while the repair is being done, the crushing depression of being victimized, etc.

I don't care how securely the radio is fastened to the dash, a thief will try to get it anyway. Usually in the most violent way possible (i.e., crowbar directly to the dash). Whether or not that try is successful is irrelevant. The results are the same. And there's no way for the thief to know whether or not it's going to be an easy grab just by looking at the fascia. There are other factors that'll make the thief skip your car, but the fascia isn't one of them.

So, I stand by my original statement: The Toyota fascia thing will not prevent or even discourage theft in any way.

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Tony Fabris

All true - my mother had her stereo (face-off panasonic) stolen from her BMW. They smashed the driver's window, then prised the unit out of the dash (even when a small screwdriver in the right place would have released it cleanly!).

The only satisfaction I got out of it was that they'd managed to cut themselves during this process and so left some blood on the dashboard - at least they suffered slightly. Oh for a DNA register... ;) (not really, I tend to think that infringes on personal privacy).

Hugo

and so left some blood on the dashboard - at least they suffered slightly. Oh for a DNA register... ;) (not really, I tend to think that infringes on personal privacy).

Man, you're more forgiving than I am. The first time my car got ripped off, you wouldn't believe the thoughts that went through this pacifist's head. If I could have gotten a DNA identification of the perpetrators, I would have done it in a heartbeat.

Hmm. Now that I think of it, maybe it's a good thing that folks like me don't have access to DNA identification tools. Okay, you have a good point, Hugo.

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Tony Fabris

The scene from Gattaca. "A 9.3, quite a catch."

Calvin

Ah, Gattaca. Great flick. Love the multilayered pun in the title. Didn't Danny DeVito produce that one?

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Tony Fabris

Explain the pun. I thought it was a sequence of dna "letters" -- is there more I overlooked?

Calvin

I thought it was a sequence of dna "letters" -- is there more I overlooked?

Right, that is part of the joke. But it's also a sly reference to "Attica", a film about a prison revolt that really happened in 1971.

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Tony Fabris

What does a prison revolt have to do with Gattaca?

Calvin