DSP Time delay feature?

Hey all -
I'm kind of into high end audiophile systems...here's a suggestion.

There are DSP's that allow you to set a delay for the speakers that are closest to you because of the path length differences between you, the left, and right speakers.

I think it would be great if we could have a user defined (front RCA's only; Front and Rear RCA's only; and Rear RCA's only) selection where we could set a time delay so the driver could listen to music as though he is sitting in the exact middle of the car. This would surely increase the music experience.

Any comments, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Wes

This has been discussed before.

Front/rear delay is not possible, as the software cannot control the difference between the front/rear signals and this feature is not present in the DSP. The software could (in theory) globally change the left/right delay, however it has not been implemented and most likely will not be implemented.

Mmm, interesting. All I'm really interested in is left/right delay because I only use the Front RCA's to power my amp.

Seeing that many high end systems have nothing more than Bass coming from the rear it would be pointless to delay the rear unless you had highs coming from back there.

Thanks Tony.
Wes

Front/rear delay is not possible, as the software cannot control the difference between the front/rear signals and this feature is not present in the DSP. The software could (in theory) globally change the left/right delay.............

I'm no expert by any means but if the EQ can change (in car) the four channels independantly of each other, it would seem to me, that delays or other effects could be accomplished. If a delay was added to each quadrant seperately (.5 sec delay-left/front....1.2 sec delay-right/rear) for example. Again I'm probably not understanding fully what the player can do.

The issue that this bangs up against is that the EQ is not doing anything in software beyond controlling the on-board ASIC. The ASIC does not have the feature that you're looking for, and the ASIC is the only thing that generates separate front and rear channels. The software only sends left and right and the ASIC splits them front-to-back, applying EQ if requested.

Tony, this is getting to be a FAQ.

Hopefully we can point to the FAQ to show how to use it, as opposed to pointing to where it says left/right delay is possible but no one will implement it. Heck, I want to learn how to code just to do this! I think anyone who hasn't seen first hand what this can do in your car is really missing out. Not that I suggest closing your eyes while driving, but if you're parked - and you have a delay setting tuned in - you could close your eyes and swear you could reach out over the steering wheel and grab the person singing. Instead of just "sound from all over", it's very detailed and precise. The singer is here, the drummer is there, and the guitar player is up here, etc.

Also, you can hotwire a variety of musical instruments for a rear delay (or left to right honestly), such as the items you plug between an electric guitar and an amplifier (wah wah pedals and such). The explanation sounds funny, but it works, and could complete the "total control".

Nicolas, I've asked this question myself. There doesn't seem to be enough interest. Or as I see it, enough people that truly understand how cool it would be.

The problem is you're trying to use this feature for working through deficiencies in your soundstaging. Either because of your vehicle ergonomics or possibly a bad installation or component selection. Unlike the original poster, I don't consider these tweaks to be "audiophile"

Regardless of delays, you will never have any control over instrument placement. You have two tracks to play with from the original source. Left and Right. With some devices you may be able to control front to back delays. That would give you quadrant control, but not instrument control.

In my installation, regardless of empeg functionality you also won't have any front to back control of any kind. I'm only using two channels out of the empeg. And I'm only using two channels out of my Clarion HU to my amp for the entire cabin.

Any delays or processing you implement is also going to completely ruin the sound for anyone sitting in your passenger seat.

If there's a priority list for features to be added (post 2.0) I really hope delays are very low (very very low) on the list. If you want something like this bad enough, introduce another device in your analog signal path to do it.

Bruno

I tried to, in fact I got my Sony 770 deck just because it could do this. Turns out the stupid thing is a "setting" and is not adjustable like my old 600dsp was.

I know the stage crashes for a passenger - I normally turn the effect off when someone else is in the car. However, 90+% of the time it's just me, and I like it.

I know that in a perfect install it wouldn't be necessary, but as much as I'd love to have perfect, I'm more bent on practical. Not everyone wants to make kickpanel speakers or other setups to minimize the pathlength difference. It's tools I don't have to build them, money I don't have to have them built for me, nor do I care to move my fuse box and the other items that are down there from the factory.

I guess it's just conflicting opinions. I admit it's a band-aid. My stereo sounds just fine without the delay. But I know it would sound even better if I could kick the left side out just a couple of milliseconds. If it's an easy programming option, I hope it does get done. Obviously I'm not the only one that would like to see it. I hope if it is easy, it doesn't get skipped to punish us for not having the dreamy installation that we'd all like to.

I'm extremely pleased with the empeg and all the work that's been done already, if I sound ungrateful or anything...

Check the threads that were mentioned earlier. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that something could be done for R/L. But there are so many other things that are better considered before it. For 2.0 I'd hope that the remaining bugs are all top priority beyond any new functionality (we've been spoiled by the feature creep ) Then there are features that have started to be implemented, but haven't been finished/polished yet.

There's another thread about the possibility of someone making a completely new player app. I don't think that extreme is needed for the few top features I've seen people mention.

I could probably improve my soundstage with a small delay as well. But, I'd really like to tweak the install a bit to improve it. It's just been too cold to do that recently.

Bruno

I don't think we need a new player app. We also probably don't need to wait for the empeg guys to do it either. I think adding a delay to one of the channels could be done entirely within the kernel.

I understand your point, I hope I didn't come off the wrong way.

Perhaps if I offered to paypal someone $50 (USD) to implement it? Who would I make that offer to?

Besides the empeg team, the correct persons to beg for the feature would be, I believe, Richard Lovejoy and/or Mark Lord.

I don't know if cash is the sort of thing they'd need as incentive or not.

I nearly have something. Watch this space in the next few days.

Either I'll release something OR I'll ask Mark Lord or the Empeg guys something technical as to why my idea doesn't work.

Woohoo! I'll be watching!

So Shonky (Christian)....we send the money to you?

Wes

If you want

or a tuner would nice

Anyhoo, I have already done it and released the first version. Look here :
http://empeg.comms.net/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hackers_prog&Number=69464&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

Use the link at the end of the post. The first link is down at the moment...

Hope you like it.

Tony said on the 8th of this month:
> however [left/right delay] has not been implemented and most likely will not be implemented.

...and 7 days later it's implemented. That is just so cool. I got my first chance to try it tonight and though I am a very much not an audiophile (hell, I can't tell the difference between 128K and 256K encodes), I definantely heard the difference with this. Bravo Shonky, and my thanks.

My friends and co-workers thought I was stupid to buy a backup Empeg ("You should just wait, something better will come along eventually"), things like this prove them to be so wrong.

For the record, when I said "most likely will not be implemented", I meant not implemented by the empeg team. I knew it could be done with a kernel hack and in fact suggested that very thing in another post.

For the record as well, the empeg team (Hugo, precisely) said it is in their wish list, and will be implemented eventually .

Hmm. I'd forgotten Hugo said that. I stand corrected.