For those of you working on map based applications, the (formerly Philips CARIN) map CDs are available without subscription costs from VDO-Dayton @ E 149 per disk, which to me represents pretty damn good value for money for European navigation efforts. They are currently doing a special offer for 4 European disks for E 450 which covers a significant proportion of the EU. There is a gentleman on this board who currently has a CARIN simulator running on ARM which may well be able to use this disk as long as the DB format hasn't changed too much in the last few years. Look sharp, grab 'em while they're hot!