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#246219 - 11/01/2005 17:30 Mac Mini
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
I've just been reading about the Mac mini. A box measuring 16x16x5 cms with DVD drive, Bluetooth, USB 2.0, Firewire, Ethernet and it's silent too. All for £399! It seems really cool, am I missing something? Is it too good to be true?

I can see one of these things being the frontend for my Myth setup.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#246220 - 11/01/2005 17:39 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Quote:
It seems really cool, am I missing something? Is it too good to be true?


Not according to Cringely. (Prediction number three...a little ways down the page.)

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#246221 - 11/01/2005 17:44 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Sounds like a typical VIA mini-ITX system, but in a smaller case than usual!

EDIT: Oh, that kind of Mac. Very nice!

Cheers


Edited by mlord (11/01/2005 17:51)

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#246222 - 11/01/2005 17:52 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Bluetooth costs extra, but everything else sounds about right. It's not really cheap for a computer when you comepare it to cheap PC's, but it's definitly a cheap mac.

"iPod Shuffle" is the one that amazes me. Flash players were crap that ends up in a drawer, and now they're the greatest addition to the ipod family? Especially one without a screen and with battery life shorter than a carbon? (And apperently with the lanyard running through the usb cap to make sure you only lose the player, and don't lose the cap)

This was a very odd keynote for apple, seeing as they killed three of their biggest myths at once (headless imac, flash ipod, apple phone(which perhaps doesn't really count))

Matthew

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#246223 - 11/01/2005 18:38 Re: Mac Mini [Re: matthew_k]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
The mini mac is gorgeous - definitely my new living room system. I'm sure a lot of them will end up in cars also.

The iPod shuffle is a trivial piece of hardware (though quite cute) but if the rumours of 5 million pieces to meet initial demand are true then I guess Jobs is expecting to pull off one of his legendary strokes of marketing genius. I doubt any other manufacturer has ever sold 5 million of any one player, let alone as a channel fill. I'd guess their software effort was near zero, compared with three years of painful DSP development on the same platform at Rio.

Rob

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#246224 - 11/01/2005 18:50 Re: Mac Mini [Re: rob]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Yes, I'm ordering a Mac mini just as soon as their estore comes back up

The flash I'm sure will sell very well - it's priced very keenly, no doubt related to the next step decrease in flash prices - but in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch.

I'm not sure how much it will cannibalise the market for higher-functionality, expandable MP3 players, but if I was making an mp3 plug player... ouch!

Hugo

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#246225 - 11/01/2005 19:02 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
How are the specs on this? Is it lacking something it should have (like a faster processor)? I assume the hard drive is a laptop drive based on the size of the device and space options. That will probably be a bottleneck.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#246226 - 11/01/2005 19:05 Re: Mac Mini [Re: robricc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Spec wise, it sits about the same as an eMac, or the iBooks. Considering I have been just fine on my 1.25 G4 Powerbook for most everything, it is an awesome little system.

The only thing that will really make you see how slow it is compared to a G5 is doing video processing on it. But still the speed of it isn't bad.

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#246227 - 11/01/2005 19:29 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
and it's silent too

The Apple site only says "purrs" and "whisper-quiet". I think I'll wait and see how quiet Hugo's is before buying one -- though if it's fanless, or the fan is only there to cool the winchester, I hear you can TFTP boot modern Macs, at least into Linux.

Peter

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#246228 - 11/01/2005 19:59 Re: Mac Mini [Re: robricc]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
I don't know about the HD but the CPU is either 1.25GHz or 1.41GHz

My iBook is 1.25GHz and for normal every day stuff, it flys. Even a small fan would be better than my XP3200 hovercraft sitting in the living room at the moment.

I can see well-heeled people buying several units at a time. It also looks seriously sexy (without trying to sound too sad) Mini-ITX systems that look as cool seem to cost a lot more.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#246229 - 11/01/2005 20:01 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
The apple info page http://www.apple.com/uk/macmini/design.html has a shot of some of the innards.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#246230 - 11/01/2005 20:32 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Why, WHY could they not have it dual-display capable?!?!

I would have alrady hit "BUY"....

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Dave

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#246231 - 11/01/2005 20:49 Re: Mac Mini [Re: webroach]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Buy two of them?

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#246232 - 11/01/2005 21:33 Re: Mac Mini [Re: peter]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
I hear you can TFTP boot modern Macs, at least into Linux.

For quite some time. They use the same ... uhhh ... boot loaders (?) that Suns do -- OpenBoot/Open Firmware, which is described in IEEE 1275. (It's really so much more than a boot loader, but I have no better term right now.)

You can get into it on (I think) any modern Apple system by holding down Command-Option-O-F during poweron. OF for OpenFirmware, IIRC. Or maybe it's Command-Option-O-B? Something like that, at any rate.


Edited by wfaulk (11/01/2005 21:39)
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#246233 - 11/01/2005 21:37 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
They need to make some nice jukebox (not itunes blah) software and a remote.
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Matt

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#246234 - 11/01/2005 21:40 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
Please excuse the probably really stupid question...

If I got one of these things can I see the shares I have on my windows network ???

If I can, this will be a very cheap upgrade for me, using my existing 2 (well 3 really) PC's for all the downloading/storage and server stuff while having a nice mac for web browsing etc...

Cheers

Cris.

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#246235 - 11/01/2005 21:42 Re: Mac Mini [Re: Cris]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Yes you can.
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Matt

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#246236 - 11/01/2005 21:42 Re: Mac Mini [Re: Cris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yes.
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Bitt Faulk

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#246237 - 11/01/2005 21:48 Re: Mac Mini [Re: wfaulk]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Here's how powerful OpenBoot is:

On a Sun, you can drop to OpenBoot via a key chord. If you type "go" from there, the OS will resume. This is usually 100% safe, even though your OS doesn't get run at all for the time you're in OpenBoot.

OpenBoot has access to all system memory. It has write access.

You can get ps to tell you the address of a running process. You can figure out where inside that running process the uid is stored. You can drop to OpenBoot and change that value. If you do that with, for example, a shell, you have nearly instantaneous root access.

Nifty. Much easier than shutting down the OS (usually hard) and booting off of a CD when you've screwed something up very badly.

Of course, that doesn't show how powerful it is outside the realm of being able to tweak your OS. But it implements a Forth interpreter and knows about most of the computer's hardware, third party stuff sometimes, but not always, excluded. It even implements TFTP and DHCP clients.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#246238 - 11/01/2005 21:58 Re: Mac Mini [Re: wfaulk]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
Dammit! Now I really hate Mr Jobs! He has taken away every excuse I had for not owning a mac!

I mean I hate Mr Gates too, but I can get my hands on most things he does without parting with too much cash if you know what I mean

Now anyone want to buy a pinball machine so I can pay for this sucker

Cheers

Cris.


Edited by Cris (11/01/2005 21:59)

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#246239 - 12/01/2005 01:33 Re: Mac Mini [Re: mlord]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Buy two of them?


"KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!"

I mean, yes, that would use up both monitors, but not really in the way I intended.

Maybe I ju8st need to bite the bullet and get the Dual 2.5 G5.....

*drool*
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Dave

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#246240 - 12/01/2005 02:46 Re: Mac Mini [Re: rob]
mcomb
pooh-bah

Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Quote:
definitely my new living room system.


Same here. I have a feeling they will sell gobs of them to geeks as little utility boxes. It will be interesting to see if they can really make a push into the mass iPod buying general populace with them.

-Mike
_________________________
EmpMenuX - ext3 filesystem - Empeg iTunes integration

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#246241 - 12/01/2005 05:10 Re: Mac Mini [Re: wfaulk]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Oo oo oo I want one! My first impression when I saw this was (see if you geddit) "IPX!"

Now I know.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#246242 - 12/01/2005 05:19 Re: Mac Mini [Re: wfaulk]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
I messed with OpenFirmware a bit on a 6400 with linux. Not all OF implementations are created equal. Some of the stuff in the 6400 was broken and you couldn't get linux to boot straignt from OF. Newer machines don't have that problem.

iRCC, The 6400 even had enoughtfree programmable memory for short custom program. One I recall was to let you select a display modes other than the default. How many pc's do you see booting at resolutions above vga?

The 6400 only let you drop into OF during the post. Not like the Suns where stop-1a would take you the OF monitor mode anytime so long as it hadn't been passworded.
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Glenn

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#246243 - 12/01/2005 08:13 Re: Mac Mini [Re: schofiel]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Oo oo oo I want one! My first impression when I saw this was (see if you geddit) "IPX!"


I think you mean "iPX".
_________________________
Dave

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#246244 - 12/01/2005 09:08 Re: Mac Mini [Re: altman]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
Well that did it!

They did it on 6 months interest free! Couldn't resist!

It arrives early Feb(ish)

Cheers

Cris.

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#246245 - 12/01/2005 10:25 Re: Mac Mini [Re: Cris]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Which one did you get Cris? 6 months interest free sounds like I'll be getting one too!
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#246246 - 12/01/2005 13:29 Re: Mac Mini [Re: gbeer]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
True, but the 6400 was quite a while ago, and they've mostly got all the bugs worked out now.
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Bitt Faulk

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#246247 - 12/01/2005 13:36 Re: Mac Mini [Re: altman]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Yes, I'm ordering a Mac mini just as soon as their estore comes back up

And the best of it is, you can carry it around in an Empeg bag...

Peter

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#246248 - 12/01/2005 14:05 Re: Mac Mini [Re: andym]
Cris
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
Quote:
Which one did you get Cris? 6 months interest free sounds like I'll be getting one too!


On reflection, I think Jobs has sucked me in !!!

I ended up getting 1.42Ghz model with the following upgrades... 512Mb, bluetooth, DVD writer and Wireless KB and M total price £608ish (with my discount! only approx £16 this time as it's a new product ) It kinda defeats the idea of a "cheap" mac. It is very very very well priced. They will sell allot of these I think, but people will end up thinking "How did they get me to spend that much?"

I think a good example of this was that I wanted a 80Gb drive, and the next model up was "only" £26ish more, and that goes for almost everything else, the memory upgrade was down to the sales guy, deff got sucked in there!

If you want the interest free offer HURRY !!! it ends on the 15th and I'm not sure if the mini is inthe deal, but they have told me my paperwork has gone in the post already. See here for details.

Cheers

Cris.

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