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#253585 - 07/04/2005 06:22 Problems w/ new Hard Disk
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
So, the hard disk in my webserver appears to be going south. I've turned on SMART monitoring, but nothing obvious appears at this point.

At the same time, I've been running a little short of disk space on that box (nothing spectacular -- there's still about 10Gb free), so I bought a shiny new 200Gb Barracuda to go in the box.

And I'm having trouble formatting it. I can plug it in fine, and I can partition it fine -- I opted for 7Gb root, 500Mb swap, the rest /home. Now, when I try to format /home using mke2fs -j -O sparse_super, it hangs the box solid at the last step -- "writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information".

Any ideas?

This is on Debian/woody, btw, so e2fstools is, like, 1.27 from 2002 or something. Do I just need to format the disk with a newer version of mke2fs?

Oh, and kernel 2.4.26.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253586 - 07/04/2005 10:45 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14482
Loc: Canada
Are you sure it's really hanging -- that last step sometimes takes several minutes..

I *always* use the newest e2fstools --> they only ever include bugfixes and forward compatibility updates and the like. One really does want the best version of e2fsck, for example..

Cheers

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#253587 - 07/04/2005 12:13 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: mlord]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Are you sure it's really hanging


I can't toggle my NumLock light -- that's normally how I tell.

Quote:
I *always* use the newest e2fstools


OK, I'll format the disk with a bootable Knoppix CD. Or I'll upgrade to something newer than woody -- which I'd prefer not to do.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253588 - 07/04/2005 16:58 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14482
Loc: Canada
Well, if your numlock LED isn't responding to you, then do as for the Empeg: go to the console and look at the error messages..

Formatting under Knoppix may or may not work for you -- if (very likely) it uses a newer kernel than Woody, the new kernel may use "new" features when creating the filesystem. Should be fine within 2.4.2x family, though.

-ml

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#253589 - 08/04/2005 06:22 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: mlord]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Well, if your numlock LED isn't responding to you, then do as for the Empeg: go to the console and look at the error messages..


I was on the console (booted in single-user mode) -- no error messages. I'll try again this weekend.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253590 - 08/04/2005 18:10 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: mlord]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Are you sure it's really hanging


OK. Further investigation reveals that it's probably the motherboard

I ran memtest86 on it and it freezes. I've tried it with another (assumed good) stick of RAM, and that freezes too.

Putting the disk in my other Linux box and formatting it succeeds with no problems.

So, because this is a Shuttle case, and I don't want to get another board for the same case -- this is the second one to go bad in the last couple of years -- and because I can't really justify spending on a whole new computer, cheap as they are, I'm going to have to move the functionality of the webserver into my main Linux box.

Bugger. This is going to be a bit of a chore.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253591 - 08/04/2005 18:26 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I've had two separate Shuttle machines break. The first one had defective capacitors which leaked everywhere and the second just mysteriously died one day. They might look nice but I'm not convinced about their long term reliability.

I know people that haven't had any problems at all with their Shuttles but the same can be said about HDs and my refusal to use Maxtor ever again. I think the count of Maxtors dying in the year or so is about 11. Not all them were mine either so it's not the enclosure or PSU.

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#253592 - 08/04/2005 18:44 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
I don't like to comment on the reliability of computer kit as I swear even mentioning it causes machines to become unreliable.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253593 - 08/04/2005 18:46 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
They might look nice but I'm not convinced about their long term reliability.


If I had room, I'd get some Dell rackmount kit. It's remarkably cheap, and reputedly quite reliable.

It's just that the smallest rack Dell do is 48" tall, and I can't find the room for that.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253594 - 08/04/2005 18:57 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Yeah it certainly looks cheap, but once you add a few options the price soon shoots up. Kinda like the Mac Mini.

£74 for a rack mount kit? Two pieces of bent metal with some holes in? What started out as a £389 server is now £1,197.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253595 - 08/04/2005 19:02 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
If it's just the bay size that's stopping you from getting one, I'm sure you could find something much cheaper and smaller elsewhere. Of course you'd need the incredibly expensive rack adaptor then.... or slip Patrick a tenner to knock you up a pair in 5 minutes.

You can also buy rack strip cheaply from CPC and fashion your own enclosure to your exact requirements, that's what I've done in the past.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253596 - 08/04/2005 19:06 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
You can buy smaller racks and you definitely don't need the Dell one. There is even a wooden one on eBay at the moment.

I actually ran a Dell 1U P4 PowerEdge just lying down for a year with no problems. Not particularly elegant but it did work.

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#253597 - 08/04/2005 19:07 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Cris bought one of those from the same guy. Maybe he can give you some more info.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253598 - 08/04/2005 19:07 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: andym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Rack adapter? You mean the rails?

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#253599 - 08/04/2005 19:11 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
Rack adapter? You mean the rails?


It just says Rack mounting parts, in my business that's usually just rack ears as most stuff just bolts in. Rails are usually just for stuff that breaks often like VT machines and would usually be referred to separately.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253600 - 08/04/2005 19:30 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: andym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
The PowerEdge 1750 that I've got next to me at the moment came with a rack mount rail kit which you bolt in and then just drop the server onto. No clue what the Dell specific version of this looks like however. You could just bolt it in with the ears alone I guess.

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#253601 - 08/04/2005 19:45 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I've often made do with a pair of 2-post EIA telco racks lined up. Much less expensive than a cabinet.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#253602 - 08/04/2005 20:43 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
This is going to be a bit of a chore.


And, of course, while in the middle of trying to get the new box up as quickly as possible -- so as to not be up half the night -- it decides that /home is in need of an fsck -- all 600Gb of it.

_________________________
-- roger

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#253603 - 08/04/2005 21:39 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
And why aren't you using a journaled FS?

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#253604 - 09/04/2005 08:19 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
And why aren't you using a journaled FS?


Maybe a bit of empeg rubbed off on him?
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#253605 - 09/04/2005 08:40 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
There is even a wooden one on eBay at the moment.

Nice, but at 380mm deep you aren't going to get PCs in there. Ikea "Corras" bedside tables (i.e., from Roger's point of view, the things we had the fridge and fishtank on at Empeg's Signet Court office) make good housings for computer gear. They don't have the rack posts, of course, but you can just stack stuff up. If you look carefully here, you can see a couple of Sparcs, a PowerPC, and (space for) a Multia tucked under my desk; rack-sized servers would fit quite snugly too (internal width is 17.5in/445mm).

One remaining problem is that rackmount gear usually isn't quiet -- though perhaps more modern gear has temperature-controlled fans.

Peter

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#253606 - 09/04/2005 09:34 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: peter]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
Nice, but at 380mm deep you aren't going to get PCs in there.

Oops. Didn't notice the depth of that. Must have been made for audio gear or something.

Quote:
One remaining problem is that rackmount gear usually isn't quiet -- though perhaps more modern gear has temperature-controlled fans.

Hmm. Good point. The PowerEdge I've got here goes from loud to jet engine taking off if it detects a fault like overheating or a PSU dying. You really don't want this anywhere near you. Chucking it into the garage would be okay but you have to make sure it's not going to be sucking dusty air in.

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#253607 - 10/04/2005 14:03 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: tman]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
And why aren't you using a journaled FS?


I am (ext3). It hit the max mount count.
_________________________
-- roger

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#253608 - 10/04/2005 15:08 Re: Problems w/ new Hard Disk [Re: Roger]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14482
Loc: Canada
tune2fs -c0 -i0 /dev/hdX

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