#274819 - 24/01/2006 01:30
Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Well, after years of faithful service, my EMPEG RIO failed. The boot logo appears, then nothing (either in car or home). Upon futher inspection, I can hear a little light clicking of the harddrive, but it does not appear to spin up. So...
My Sony VAIO has no serial port. Other than using a friends computer once I replace the drive, is there another way to gain access to the EMPEG? Also, I have read several posts and the FAQ, but wondered if anyone supplies replacement drives for specific Empeg with everything minus music loaded?
ps..mine is a 10GB IBM Travelstar hard drive.
Regards!
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274820 - 24/01/2006 03:30
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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A usb serial port. Previously often sold for hooking up palm pilots when they didn't have USB ports. Newegg has them for about $10 plus shipping.
Which reminds me, I should have ordered one of these with my last newegg order.
Matthew
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#274821 - 24/01/2006 06:45
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: matthew_k]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Problem is that not all of the USB->serialport dongles are working with the Empeg for firmware upgrades...
Stig
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#274822 - 24/01/2006 14:21
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Djdrock, remember that it might not be the hard drive itself. It could be a loose cable or the IDE header. Perhaps it can be fixed without even needing the serial port. You still should work out a solution for a serial port if you can. For instance, your description of the problem (boot logo appears and stays there) indicates you're on software 1.03. There are some great features in 2.0 that you're missing, and you need the serial cable to install that. Also, Hijack is very cool, and you can install that with the serial cable.
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#274823 - 24/01/2006 15:12
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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The cable looks fine, and I checked for broken sodering points (as you mentioned) last night, and could not find anything. I pulled into work, player was playing fine as it always has, went out hours later, and it was not working. Either way, I am leaning towards it being a bad drive, but I will reinspect it tonight. I used to have a 20G running hijack and sold it with the car it was in. I liked the features of it, but never really got around to updating this player.  I have been shopping for drives, and I have a question. I have been looking at 20+ GB IBM Travelstar drives on ebay and elsewhere, and one I found, 32g, (ebay item 6841313393) says it is ultraDMA ATA-4 interface. I am wondering if this is some kind of different drive from ebay item 6842863415). The FAQ menioned that most any drive should work, but like SCSI, there are different pin and cable configurations, and I wondered if some of the laptop drives were like this as well. Thanks again!
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274824 - 24/01/2006 15:21
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I wondered if some of the laptop drives were like this as well.
At the moment, no. As far as I know, the 2.5-inch laptop drives are all the same, and have a standardized type of connector. Desktop drives have several different kinds of connectors these days, but I'm pretty sure laptop drives are still all the same.
If you're looking on Ebay, I'd triple-check with the seller to make sure it's really a laptop drive.
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#274825 - 24/01/2006 15:38
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Yes, good advice! I will do that.
And just to double check something...when you hear a hard drive make multiple clicking sounds (click...click...click...etc) and that is all it does, is this generally not a sign of a bad drive?
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274826 - 24/01/2006 16:30
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Well 2.5" SATA drives are starting to appear. But other than that, anything should work fine.
Matthew
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#274827 - 24/01/2006 16:34
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Is this on AC power, or in the sled? Does the display light up?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#274828 - 24/01/2006 18:18
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: schofiel]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Quote:
Is this on AC power, or in the sled? Does the display light up?
Both. And yes, it does light up. Goes to the boot logo, and that is it.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274829 - 24/01/2006 19:32
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
when you hear a hard drive make multiple clicking sounds (click...click...click...etc) and that is all it does, is this generally not a sign of a bad drive?
Sometimes yeah, but not always necessarily. It could be an intermittent connection between the drive and the rest of the world. There have been others who reported that they get the click and the problem turned out to be IDE header issues.
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#274830 - 24/01/2006 20:52
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14484
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
The FAQ menioned that most any drive should work, but like SCSI, there are different pin and cable configurations
Errr, no there aren't. Mobile IDE/ATA is always 44-pin headers. The master/slave jumper is on the drive, not the cable.
Any notebook drive should "just work". Go for the slowest RPM (less heat) and cheapest one you can find.
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#274831 - 24/01/2006 21:33
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Okay...I took all the cables apart/off, closely reinspected the board, and there is no sign of any loose sodering points. But, I when trying to take the cable off the board, I accidently took the top of the black portion (which "seals" the cable) off. It does go back on however, loosely. My cable does have a red stripe on it, and if memory serves me correctly, this is one of the suspect cables, correct?
Anyways, I am going to buy a new (used) drive. Also, in reading many posts in the forum, I think I recall someone saying that any 44-pin laptop cable will work, as long as it is small enough. Am I correct on this? I may just go ahead and get a new cable while I am at it?
As always, thanks!
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274832 - 24/01/2006 21:58
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I think I recall someone saying that any 44-pin laptop cable will work, as long as it is small enough.
The length of the cable on the Mk2 units is custom. You have to buy one from Support or from Eutronix. Is your unit a Mk2?
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#274833 - 24/01/2006 22:10
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Yes, it is a MK2. I will probably just order one from Eutronix just to be on the safe side.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274834 - 26/01/2006 13:20
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: StigOE]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Quote:
Problem is that not all of the USB->serialport dongles are working with the Empeg for firmware upgrades...
Stig
Hmmm. What are the issues? Is it simply compatibility with a specific version of Windows and/or the empeg software?
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274835 - 26/01/2006 13:51
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Quote:
Quote:
Problem is that not all of the USB->serialport dongles are working with the Empeg for firmware upgrades...
Stig
Hmmm. What are the issues? Is it simply compatibility with a specific version of Windows and/or the empeg software?
At least the one I tried to upgrade hijack with didn't work when using Logoedit. Can't remember exactly what the errormessage was. This was a Prolific one, I think, or it could have been a Sunsway one. OS was Win2k.
Stig
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#274836 - 26/01/2006 22:28
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: StigOE]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Okay...bought a USB Serial emulator and all is installed fine. I plugged the cable into the empeg with power (after starting hyperterminal) and i can see the player communicating fine in the hyperterminal display. But...
I can not get my keyboard to communicate with the player, in other words, the cursor justs flashes. First, I really do not need to do this now, as I do not have a working hard drive, but wanted to troubleshoot as much as possible before receiving my new drive. All settings are set correctly as mentioned in the FAQ (flow control off etc...).
I can see in the grey area on the bottom of hyperterminal where it says NUM CAP, I can see hitting the caps lock or num lock keys does change, so it is communicating somewhat.
I have read numerous posts and others have had similar issues. Any ideas?
Edited by djdrock (26/01/2006 22:35)
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274837 - 27/01/2006 03:55
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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If your player is running a recent version of Hijack, check the important note in the FAQ entry for Hyperterminal (just added recently). Re-read the hyperterminal entry carefully and make sure you haven't missed anything. Make sure the connecting cable is the correct kind. Also CAPS and NUM indicators in the status bar are your local PC only, they don't indicate successful communication.
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#274838 - 27/01/2006 13:05
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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I believe that my player is just running ver 1.03.
The serial cable is the one that came with the empeg. I am sure the cable works fine, as a friend of mine recently used to to upload a few songs to his empeg, as he was having issues with USB.
I have tried and tried to get it to connect, but it will not. I have read every FAQ entry and every thread I can find about it.
I am just double checking something, but should hyperterminal be able to communicate even with no hard drive installed? Seems to me like it should.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274839 - 27/01/2006 15:06
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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If you are running a consumer image, then there is no way to abort the player application and drop to a command line shell (bash). For this, you need to have the developer image installed.
If you have the serial port working with Hyperterminal, then at least you know your serial port dongle is working OK. The next thing to do is run the Updater program and specify the COM port that this dongle presents itself as (COM1, 2, etc.). Then point the updater at the downloaded firmware update image to perform the update. Make sure you have the correct image type for your player (Mk 1, Mk 2/2A/Riocar) and the correct sort for what you want to do (consumer, developer). Bob is your proverbial.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#274840 - 27/01/2006 15:50
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Here's a link to the developer image you want.
First, install the newer version of Emplode.
Then go to Start -> Programs -> Rio emplode -> Rio Upgrade Wizard. Select the developer image you downloaded from the link above. Select your COM port and apply the upgrade.
Upon rebooting the player, you should be able to connect via Hyperterminal.
If you are running Windows XP, you will need to upgrade the USB drivers before you can connect to the player via USB. Instructions are in the 2.00 release notes.
_________________________
~ John
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#274841 - 27/01/2006 16:37
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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 Nice one. Much better detail. I'm not as good at it these days!
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#274842 - 27/01/2006 17:48
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: schofiel]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Excellent! Just received my 32G drive today. I will let you know how everything goes, and stand by in case I have questions (which I probably will.)
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274843 - 28/01/2006 02:39
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Well, problems have already occured. The drive seems to be working now. No clunking noise as before.
When running the .upgrade file, I get an error "Flash program failued during stage 0x10". Upon searching for this, I found that someone else received this error when using a USB to Serial converter.
Guess I need to borrow a friends computer unless anyone has any other ideas.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274844 - 28/01/2006 14:38
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Having a real serial port makes all the difference. Everything is loaded and back together. Thanks for everyones help. It is greatly appreciated.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274845 - 30/05/2006 15:36
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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Hopefully I am not on the beginning of the end of my Empeg, but today, I got the No Hard Drive, Contact Support Message. Just a few months ago, I replaced the hard-drive.
So, I let it cycle a few times, and it came back on. I did notice this morning, I heard some static for a second on a song (not a glitch in the mp3).
The heat is crazy here today, and my car was out in my car.
Could heat play an issue in this?
Thanks!!!
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274846 - 30/05/2006 22:46
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Could heat play an issue in this?
Yes.
Although it's more likely one of the usual problems. Some of those (such as the IDE header issue or the cable crimp issue) can be made worse by extreme temperature changes.
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#274847 - 12/06/2006 11:01
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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I am sure it is not a heat issue now, as just this morning when putting the empeg in my car, it did not boot, and I could hear the hard drive making the clicking noise. I pulled the empeg out, then put it back in. It was fine.
I also notice that sometimes it seems to take it a little longer to spin the drive up if I have not switched songs in a while.
Anyways, considering I have recently replaced the drive (with a used one) and the cable was not replaced, what would your guess be?
Thanks again!
Edited by djdrock (12/06/2006 11:02)
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274848 - 12/06/2006 17:54
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Anyways, considering I have recently replaced the drive (with a used one) and the cable was not replaced, what would your guess be?
Another one of the usual problems. There is a list of several there. You can either use that list as a basis to make your own diagnosis, or send the player to Stu or Rob and let them fix it.
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#274849 - 25/07/2006 01:21
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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I have still been getting the random No Hard Drive found error, so tonight I took my unit apart again, and when plugging it in it came on fine. Then when I rebooted it just after moving the drive/cable back a little bit, it would not boot. I repeated this about 8 times. There seems to be no evidence of a bad IDE header, so I am ordering a new cable. It looks like it has seen better days.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274850 - 25/07/2006 10:15
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14484
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
. There seems to be no evidence of a bad IDE header
Eh? What you just described are classic bad header symptoms! Of course it *could* be just the cable, but I think that's a lot more rare than the header issue. In the early days we always assumed it was the cable (especially since the red-striped cables did have some assembly issues), back before the IDE header problem was characterized and understood.
Cheers
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#274851 - 25/07/2006 20:45
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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I do have one of the red striped cables, and from what I can see, the header looks fine...no evidence of any broken sodder points. Is there anything under the header that I might no see that could be the culprit?
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274852 - 25/07/2006 21:18
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Is there anything under the header that I might no see that could be the culprit?
Not really. However, dry solder joints on the header can sometimes be tricky to see without magnification. If the replacememnt cable you've ordered doesn't solve the problem, then see if sending the player into Stu or Rob is an option.
Reading back over the thread, I noted two things:
1. You never said whether or not you tried hand-crimping the cable as illustrated.
2. You said you tore off the top half of one of the connectors at one point during disassembly. This would definitely tend to make the cable iffy.
These two factors indicate that you're probably on the right track with getting a replacement cable as a first step.
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#274853 - 26/07/2006 12:43
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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I did try to recrimp it, but the top of the cable is pretty shot! I even added a little glue to keep it on there, but it is still fragile.
I will go with the cable first, and then have a look at the header for further troubleshooting if necessary.
Thanks again for all of your help.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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#274854 - 08/08/2006 14:43
Re: Failed hard drive, no serial port on PC...advice needed
[Re: djdrock]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/01/2002
Posts: 86
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The new cable did the trick.
_________________________
1993 MR2 MK2a 32gb. 1991 NSX unfortunately with and IPOD.
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