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#278723 - 01/04/2006 15:37 Does everyone have a longer right arm?
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
At least many notebook manufacuters think so. Why else do they find the need to put their track-pads off-center toward the left side of the computer? Oh, it could also be they expect everyone's left hand is (visibly) smaller than their right.

Which brings me to a related point. Why is it that 99% of notebooks are still designed with inferior enclosures (plastics, bezels, keyboards, ports, fastening hardware, latches, buttons, etc..) than Apple was using in 1997? This isn't intended to be an Apple-advocacy message, but I just find it unreal that the likes of Toshiba, HP, Dell, etc. produce notebooks of sujch craptastic quality, at all price points. Even the venerable IBM brand (before Lenovo) was nothing to write home about excepting its svelt profile.

Every couple of days a new notebook hits the street and it's the same mistakes over and over again.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#278724 - 01/04/2006 16:22 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: hybrid8]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14486
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Why else do they find the need to put their track-pads off-center toward the left side of the computer?


Simple. The track-pad has to be centered on the letter "B" -- the middle of the QWERTY keyboard. Otherwise it gets set off by accident whilst typing normally.

I mistakenly purchased a notebook, once, with a pretty "centered" (on the notebook, not the letter "B") touchpad, and had to unload it within a few weeks again because it was just unusable.

Cheers

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#278725 - 01/04/2006 16:34 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: mlord]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1523
Loc: Arizona
I find most trackpads to be unusable. My thumbs just naturally hit the pad while typing. It is so amazingly frustrating. Its gotten to the point that I loathe most laptops, and can't stand using them.

-- Tim

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#278726 - 01/04/2006 16:37 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: Tim]
eliceo
enthusiast

Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
Quote:
I find most trackpads to be unusable. My thumbs just naturally hit the pad while typing. It is so amazingly frustrating. Its gotten to the point that I loathe most laptops, and can't stand using them.

-- Tim

me too. I prefer a touchpad.

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#278727 - 01/04/2006 16:57 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: Tim]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
Its gotten to the point that I loathe most laptops, and can't stand using them.

Have you ever had your own laptop and used it for any period of time? Back when I'd never had my own laptop I used to hate trackpads, and insisted on a trackstick and (my favorite) an external rollerball for my first laptop. I don't know how long it took, but after I'd actually used a laptop with a trackpad for a good while, it wasn't a problem in the slightest and I'm just as fast now as I used to be with the rollerball. (Well, effectively. My brain plans ahead as to where the pointer needs to be 90% of the time. If I did something mouse intensive, I'd probably still get something external)

It's all a matter of learning, and while the trackpad isn't as intuitive, it's the only thing sturdy enough to build into laptops, so it's not going anywhere.

As to the location, I've never noticed how centered or uncentered it might be. My powerbook's is centered relative to the case, not the B, and I can't see how it would make a difference.

Matthew

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#278728 - 01/04/2006 17:26 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: matthew_k]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Apple is one of the only companies that does the trackpad placement "right" - it's centered on the case, but also not far off center with the "B"

It's also place a decent distance from the keyboard that there should be no reason to be hitting it by accident with your thumbs, even though it's larger than many pads found on commodity machines. You've also got to love the fact it's sunk only about .5mm from the top surface of the case (my GF's Toshiba Tecra collects all kinds of crap because it's like a 3mm deep dish).

Mark, keyboard placement is often times poor as well. Some machines have the main keys way off to the lef. It's understandable when mimicking a destop keyboard, but keyboards for notbooks need to be designed to work around these issues (because you obviously can't move them like you would with a desktop model).

I used to hate trackpads, but as Matthew noted, after you start using one, you'll get better and better and realize that those sticks/points are not a good substitute. When I sit down at my desk to do work though I use a Microsoft Laser 6000 Notebook mouse.

Machines with both a stick/point and trackpad are the worst of all because they crowd the bottom half of the case with a bunch of extra buttons. I find ONE button below the trackpad to be perfect. On the Mac I click normally for a Left click and I touch two fingers on the pad while clicking for a Right click. This is MUCH faster and ergonomically pleasing than trying to press a second button somewhere off to the right.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#278729 - 01/04/2006 18:38 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: hybrid8]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14486
Loc: Canada
Quote:
It's also place a decent distance from the keyboard that there should be no reason to be hitting it by accident with your thumbs


More of a probablem with the sides/palms of the hands on that horrible unit (Toshiba) we had here once. But Apple does seem to Get Things Right, and it sounds like their notebooks are no exception to that.

Speaking of Mac's. I've just acquired my first ever Mac -- an old Rev.1 Blue & White G3 with OS/X Tiger installed. Nifty machine.

Of course, right now I'm typing this message on it, but from within Firefox running from a Kubuntu-Dapper daily snapshot "live CD". Suprisingly snappy system right now, even if it does have only 640MB installed.

Cheers

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#278730 - 01/04/2006 19:05 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: Tim]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
I find most trackpads to be unusable. My thumbs just naturally hit the pad while typing. It is so amazingly frustrating. Its gotten to the point that I loathe most laptops, and can't stand using them.

-- Tim

Most laptops have settings that allow tap to click to be disabled. That generally helps prevent mislocated insertion points.
_________________________
Glenn

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#278731 - 01/04/2006 19:30 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: Tim]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14486
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I find most trackpads to be unusable. My thumbs just naturally hit the pad while typing. It is so amazingly frustrating. Its gotten to the point that I loathe most laptops, and can't stand using them.

-- Tim


Perhaps you're also a victim of the "not centered on 'B'" touchpad syndrome. That was our complaint on the ugly Toshiba. No issues at all with notebooks that have properly placed pads, though.

Cheers

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#278732 - 01/04/2006 20:14 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: mlord]
StigOE
addict

Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
My HP laptop has a button to disable the touchpad, luckily, otherwise I would have moved the pointer all the time when I use it.

Stig

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#278733 - 01/04/2006 20:50 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Apple is one of the only companies that does the trackpad placement "right" - it's centered on the case, but also not far off center with the "B"

The Toshiba Satellite I'm typing on right now fits that description. Trackpad is centered on the case, and it's almost exactly (within a couple millimeters) centered below the B. With my index fingers on the home keys, my hands rest comfortably on either side of the trackpad without accidentally touching it.

The spacebar is offcenter, though, to make room for a few extra keys they couldn't fit on the sides. Actually, I dislike part of this thing's design because it looks like they could have made room for things like the Tilde key in the correct place, but they didn't, instead choosing to give me one of those useless little special-function pads with play/stop/rewind keys and such.
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Tony Fabris

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#278734 - 01/04/2006 21:35 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: Tim]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
My thumbs just naturally hit the pad while typing.

I don't think I've seen a touchpad driver in years that didn't have a "disable while typing" option.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#278735 - 02/04/2006 14:54 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: matthew_k]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
and (my favorite) an external rollerball for my first laptop.

This solution being second only to the pop out mouse of the HP Omnibook 600 (and previous?) series. Too bad they are only 486. Doesn't stop me from owning... two.

Trackpads can be both good and bad. They take up too much room, hurting the sub-notebook form factor whose case stops just past the space bar. And working out the right driver settings for sensitivity and ignoring the palms of your hand takes time. But they are faster (for me) than the tracksticks.

However, continued respects go to Lenovo for maintaining the Thinkpad quality. I've never had one fall apart like a Sony, Dell, or Gateway, and the Thinkpads have always had interesting features (like the lift up keyboard of the 760XD or the butterfly keyboard of the old 486).
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#278736 - 02/04/2006 16:11 Re: Does everyone have a longer right arm? [Re: FireFox31]
julf
veteran

Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
This solution being second only to the pop out mouse of the HP Omnibook 600 (and previous?) series.


Indeed. They were great - had first a 300, then a 500.

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