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#295863 - 24/03/2007 20:00 Strange crashes. Memory-caused?
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Remember when I was getting all those strange crashes when trying to encode MOV files? And the crashes were both on the PC and the Mac?

If you followed that thread, you'll recall that the Mac side of the problem was having installed the Divx codec, and the PC side of the problem was a bad RAM stick whose symptoms didn't show up until after a few passes into Memtest.

I got the replacement RAM stick for the PC. The bad one was part of a matched pair of Corsair PC3700. The replacement they sent me was PC4000.

I'm putting them in the paired slots, and all seems OK at first, memtest passes several passes, but I can't run any 3D video game for more than 10 minutes without a crash, even after rolling back to known-good video drivers.

Is it possible that having the mismatched pair is the issue? What happens when you have paired RAM sticks that are two different speed ratings like that?
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Tony Fabris

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#295864 - 24/03/2007 20:12 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: tfabris]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14486
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Is it possible that having the mismatched pair is the issue? What happens when you have paired RAM sticks that are two different speed ratings like that?


The BIOS should be clever enough to just program them both for PC3700 timings, and run dual-channel as normal.

Emphasis on the word should.


Edited by mlord (24/03/2007 20:12)

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#295865 - 25/03/2007 01:05 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: tfabris]
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
Maybe the BIOS makes its memory timing decision based upon the new stick? You could try swapping the modules between sockets.

Just recently, I've been fixing numerous systems with a patch that addresses problems introduced by KB916089. The patch appears to be pretty safe and it performs a pre-installation check to determine whether it should be installed. I've 'fixed' about 8 crashing PCs in the past week with this magic bullet - definitely worth trying IMO.

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#295866 - 25/03/2007 05:06 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: AndrewT]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Thanks Andrew. I will try both of your suggestions. That hotfix looks really interesting. It doesn't say what it's fixing at all, it'd be interesting to know more.
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Tony Fabris

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#295867 - 25/03/2007 22:29 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Neither swapping the modules nor installing that patch fixed the crashes.

What fixed them was altering a setting in the system BIOS, in the section that handles all of the DRAM timings. Buried in all of the options, just under the CAS latency, was a cryptic option called "performance acceleration mode". The help on the item simply said it would reduce latency between the CPU and memory. It had two options: [Enabled] and [Auto]. I'd always been able to set it to [Enabled] before, but now it's got to be set to [Auto] for the system to work crashfree.

Since the help text is unclear as to what it's accelerating, I'm not sure what performance levels I'm losing by changing it. So I'm not sure if this is a "fix" per se. For all I know, this could be what controls the ability of the memory to work in paired slots, and by setting it to Auto, I'm now losing the performance gain I originally had by using a matched memory pair.

*sigh*.
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Tony Fabris

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#295868 - 26/03/2007 12:17 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
If you purchased two sticks of memory as one product, they should replace the whole product. Did you tell them that that was the case when you returned it?
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Bitt Faulk

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#295869 - 26/03/2007 12:36 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: AndrewT]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I don't want to (completely) hijack the thread, but my brother's notebook is crashing at some access violation on a bluescreen very soon after booting into XP. He doesn't recall having installed any applications or doing anything to the system that would have cuased this. It's possible it happened after an automatic system update though.

Can this patch (mentioned above) be installed while running in Safe Mode? I'm not sure if he can get into Safe Mode, but I'm just worried the system won't otherwise stay up long enough to get it installed. After it crashes, Windows will usually want to check the disks on a reboot, which makes the whole process of restarting painfully slow.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#295870 - 26/03/2007 13:01 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
If you purchased two sticks of memory as one product, they should replace the whole product. Did you tell them that that was the case when you returned it?

The problem is that I didn't want to return both sticks, as that would have put me out of a computer for two weeks. I told them I'd bought a matched set and that only one of the sticks was bad, and asked them if it would be OK to exchange only one of the sticks. They said it would be just fine. I expected them to replace the one bad stick with an identical stick. They didn't.

My question now is whether I should go to the trouble of replacing the second stick to get a matched pair, or if things are just fine as-is with my motherboard settings where they are.
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Tony Fabris

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#295871 - 26/03/2007 13:09 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Can this patch (mentioned above) be installed while running in Safe Mode?


The patch mentioned above is (I think) a replacement for the automatic update service runtime binary. I think you can install it in Safe Mode, yes. As I understand it, though, if you can get the system to boot into safe mode and disable the automatic update service altogether, and the system still BSODs after that, then that patch isn't going to help.

My usual experience with BSODs is that they are caused by bad RAM, corrupted system files due to a bad hard disk, or sound/video driver troubles. The only thing I found odd about this particular case of mine was that even though Memtest gave me a clean bill of health, my problem was STILL because of RAM.
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Tony Fabris

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#295872 - 26/03/2007 13:43 Re: Strange crashes. Memory-caused? [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31583
Loc: Seattle, WA
Aha. According to this, the Performance Acceleration Mode setting is
Quote:
a technology for 875 mobos that increases overall performance by 3-5%. the 865 implements a technology known as gat, or gaming accelaration tech. It's for DDR400 (PC3200) or greater, in conjunction with a 800 mhz FSB CPU. It allows the RAM and CPU to run synchronously at 1:1 with the RAM on a 2x multiplier and CPU on 4x multiplier.


Other searches tell me that I should be able to turn this feature to "On". But it doesn't work with that new stick in the mix. For now, I'm just going to not worry about the tiny performance gain, and just leave it off.
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Tony Fabris

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