They do. Some autodial and log when a voice answers, and then you're called by everyone...

Using the street book has it's dark side, they'll say your neighbour bought whatever (like some public service thing that has nothing to do with the public service).

That's not my point, actually. My point is that pieces of info I created locally for my personal local use - my SSID - is being sent over to some other organization who uses it to provide a service to me. This is perfectly fine with me, and possibly a great idea, provided I am told before, and I agree in doing this (which I would do, in this case). Instead, i don't seem to see any sort of information sheet, or clear disclaimer anywhere, in my iPad2, that tells me this.

Also, the fact that my SSID is being bradcasted locally, within the range of my WAPs, is not a good justification to send that info via the internet to somebody else, as that is not my intended use of that piece of info.

The issue I personally see here is not technical, but rather ethical. And legal as well.

The fact that, as usual, the legal system is lagging behind tech development and failing to understand it is in this and all similar privacy-related cases proving a de facto privacy risk for people. If Apple can take the SSID and use it without asking the consumer (which, pratically means whitout a **very** significant liability risk for Apple), then why can't Apple get the brand and model of my router for marketing research, which is still pretty ok, or for profiling, which is possibly less ok depending on what type of profiling, or my firmware version to find out if I am vulnerable to this or that bug / backdoor, or what not?

Again, I am using Apple as an example. I don't intend to make this a brand-centered discussion. I am talking in general.

Here in Italy we've had some scaldals related to phone companies working for secret services gathering a lot of intel from citizens' phone calls and ip traffic without any legal justifications, and they got away with the IP-related part because actually no law existed to make that type of "tapping" actually illegal. Not that a law can prevent this type of abuse completely but at least I would make it clearly illegal.

You're broadcasting that information into public areas. The iPad is not collecting that information; Skyhook (or whoever) is driving around and collecting that information. If you don't want your SSID to appear in public, stop transmitting it into public areas.

Are you sure about that ? I was under impression that they did collect location data for SSIDs when you turned on Location Services.

"Apple and its partners and licensors may provide certain features or services through the Service that rely upon device-based location information, which use GPS (where available), along with crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations. To provide such features or services, where available, Apple and its partners and licensors must collect, use, transmit, process and maintain your location data, including the real-time geographic location of your device, and you hereby agree and consent to Apple's and its partners' and licensors' collection, use, transmission, processing and maintenance of such location data to provide such services. In addition, by enabling and/or using any location-based services or features within the Service (e.g. Find My iPhone, Find My Friends), you agree and consent to Apple and its partners and licensors transmitting, collecting, using, processing and maintaining information related to your iCloud account (“Account”), and any devices registered thereunder, for purposes of providing such location-based service or feature to you, and use of your location data and location search queries to provide and improve location-based and road traffic-based products and services. Such information may include, but is not limited to, your Apple ID, device ID and name, device type and real-time geographic location of your device at time of your request. You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features and turning off the Find My iPhone, Find My Friends, or Location Services settings (as applicable) on your device and computer. When using third party services that use or provide location data as part of the Service, you are subject to and should review such third party's terms and privacy policy on use of location data by such third party services. Any location data provided by the Service is not intended to be relied upon in situations where precise location information is needed or where erroneous, inaccurate, time-delayed or incomplete location data may lead to death, personal injury, property or environmental damage. Apple shall use reasonable skill and due care in providing the Service, but neither Apple nor any of its content providers guarantees the availability, accuracy, completeness, reliability, or timeliness of location data or any other data displayed by the Service."

http://www.apple.com/legal/icloud/en/terms.html

If turning off your SSID beacon is inconvenient and you don't want to be in a location database, you can add "_nomap" to the end of your SSID.

I think we're conflating two different issues: (1) The gathering of SSID information in order to build a database of location beacons. (2) The use of these to locate me (my phone).

Arguably, gathering the SSID information isn't an invasion of privacy, any more than cell tower triangulation is.

Using that information so that I can figure out where I am isn't an invasion of privacy either.

Making available information about where I am (whether gathered by GPS, SSID triangulation, cell triangulation or an inertial navigation system built with the compass and accelerometer) is an invasion of privacy.

.. except if/when they also retain that location information themselves.

Arguing semantics: Doesn't matter so long as that information's never made available in a form where I can be individually traced. But, yeah. Still a different issue to me broadcasting my SSID.

So, they did create a disclaimer, but they did not advertise it or point users to it very effectively, I think.


Again, this is related to how Apple built its location-DB.
I'm not talking about that (and even there, there's a fine like between what can and cannot be done with info available in pulic areas, but still...).
The issue is that when you ask your iPad where you are, your SSID/BSSID is taken from your WAP and sent to Apple -> over the internet <-. Which requires a disclaimer, at least. Obviously, I would add.

You're asking Apple to tell you, over the internet, your physical location, and your concern is that they know your SSID?

Keep in mind what is sent is not just your wifi spot, but every one the device can see. And the Apple servers simply use this info to initially seed the search, and in turn, the servers then send back all the wifi spots over a large area near you. From my understanding, the device never transmits the signal strength, and all the actual precise triangulation is performed on the device. If you are in Maps searching for directions, it also sends down the spots along the route, allowing for some navigation assistance while in route.

This info is being sent over the Internet much more frequently now, after the location gate cache scandal changed the retention of this data to be limited to one week on the device. It's unfortunate too, as I have noticed the reduced speed in acquiring my location after this change was made.

I also don't really understand the privacy concern here. For Apple devices, every user must opt into location services. On any iOS 5 device (upgraded or new) disclaimer is readable right from the initial spot where prompted to turn it on. How much more prominence does this info need? And do you have similar privacy concerns when your device requests map data around it, possibility revealing that you are looking for directions in an area?

My concern is that info from my PC, which I never intended to share with company X -->not even when I ask for my position on the planet <--, is instead sent over without my approval to company X, and without clear information being provided upfront.
If that happens, yes, I am concerned, and I predict problems.

You may have heard of scandals here and there due to similar behavior by organizations (Governmental, non governmental) or individuals.

I will politely ignore any future reference in this thread to "SSID", to avoid confusion. Don't take it the wrong way.

If I'm a little bit lost, and I'm walking past your house, should I be required to knock on your door before I can look at the house number (which is clearly written on your front door) to aid in my navigation?

That's different.

By appying your logic, I could then have my employees come to your house, install cameras in your garden just outside it, and use your internet connection to have live feed broadcasted to my headquarters, and that would be fine because I could be walking outside your house and see it, couldn't I?

The problem is that software on my PC must do what I expect it to do, and must provide precise and clear info, easily accessible, on what it does. Then, if I don't read the disclaimers, if I don't understand the technology, well, that's another story.
I don't expect software on my PC to get MAC addresses and SSID, as well as HDD usage patterns, or brands and models of my hardware components, or how long I keep my pc on, and send it via the internet to Apple, or Microsoft, or RedHat, or Amazon.

Unless I agree in doing so.

Agreed!

Looks like this myth could be a reality down the road, using a new Bluetooth profile:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/21/2891785/bluetooth-gnss-profile-1-0-specification-adopted-sig