Unoffical empeg BBS

Quick Links: Empeg FAQ | RioCar.Org | Hijack | BigDisk Builder | jEmplode | emphatic
Repairs: Repairs

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#367158 - 05/07/2016 20:59 Drobo HDDs: high failure rate?
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Guys,

I've had this Drobo 5N for more than two years now, and overall I am happy with it.

But, I noticed a really high drive failure rate, at least compared with my PCs HDD failure rate over the years. I am starting to suspect it may be the Drobo unit to kill HDDs sooner than my PCs - maybe due to temperature, or other parameters.

Do you guys think this may be the case? Has anyone had similar experience with Drobo units?
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

Top
#367159 - 05/07/2016 21:56 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
If it's got a fan on the drives, as long as the fan is working, I would think that would be good. Is the fan working?

(I've had fans die on me before, which tends to kill a bank of drives PDQ.)

What kind of drives? smile

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367162 - 06/07/2016 07:10 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
What temperature are they reporting when running?

How do they fail? The usual clunking kind of failure?
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

Top
#367165 - 06/07/2016 14:33 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
You also didn't mention what that failure rate was. Has it been two drives in two years? 5?

I bought my Synology two years ago this week, and I've never had a drive fail on me (*knocking on wood*). It only has four drives and for a long while it only had three, but I do have a couple video cameras recording to it at all times, and I've set it up for headless Crashplan (a real PITA), so it gets some work.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367166 - 06/07/2016 15:48 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Guys, you're right. Here's more details:

1. Fan is there, it is working, and it is as noisy as always. I've been planning to replace it for a while, incidentally, with a quieter Noctua.

2. WD 1TB, 2TB and 3TB Green drives. Various subversions of them

3. I am afraid Drobo dashboard does not report drive temp.

4. Not sure HOW they fail. RED led next to the failed drive. I've just been replacing the drives without further investigation.

5. Failure rate: in 3 years, I replaced possibly 4/5 drives.

6. Admittedly, these are all drives I've previously used on my server at home, for at least 1 year. As I upgrade the server storage capacity, replaced drives end up in the Drobo, so none of its drive is new.
One could argue they would've failed in the server at some point.
However, other than a recent 8TB drive failed on me (see another thread on this board about drive temperatures), I have not had a drive fail in my server for 10 years at least, or more.

Matt, yes, I've been using Synology NAs units at work for various projects and, at least those I've been working with, they seem much greater quality than the Drobo. Mostly just an impression I get, admittedly, maybe because I like Synology OS so much better than the extremely basic Drobo's, but still.
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

Top
#367167 - 06/07/2016 16:09 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Wow, that does seem like way too high a failure rate. I don't think I've had 5 drives fail on me since I started using computers, let alone in the last three years! Have you contacted Drobo about this?

I can't really speak to Drobo, as I've only set up one device, but everything you said about them seems accurate to me. The construction doesn't inspire much confidence, and the software seemed pretty bad. I liken it to my experience with Carbonite vs Crashplan. Carbonite's software, IMO, is garbage and hardly gives you any options. Crashplan's software lets you do a lot more, and while it might not be as good as I want it to be, it's way better.

But none of this is helpful, so I apologize.

I wonder what Drobo is using to determine a bad drive. Is it reading the SMART data? Is the drive fully failed? The next time a drive fails (and that seems to be a pretty good certainty), you might try removing it and then hooking it up to use as a junk drive for data you don't care about losing and see how long it lasts. You could use it as a tertiary backup drive that you don't mind sacrificing. If it's usable, I'd just be curious to see how long it lasts.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367168 - 06/07/2016 16:12 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
I don't know about the Drobo, but a problem with nearly all of the small "home sized" NAS units that I have seen, is they simply don't keep the drives cool enough. Fan or no fan, the airflow design is nearly non-existent.

So I would bet on overheating, leading to media errors (aka. "bad sectors").

Top
#367169 - 06/07/2016 16:59 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Taym
2. WD 1TB, 2TB and 3TB Green drives. Various subversions of them


Hm. I had two WD 2TB drives fail in quick succession in my Synology NAS recently. I wonder if there's something to this.

Quote:
I am afraid Drobo dashboard does not report drive temp.


Feel 'em with your finger. Are they like OMFG hot, or just nicely warm?

Quote:
4. Not sure HOW they fail. RED led next to the failed drive. I've just been replacing the drives without further investigation.


Might be worth connecting the failed drives into a PC and using a S.M.A.R.T utility to read stats. Maybe there's nothing physically wrong with the drives and the Drobo firmware has some kind of a partition-mangling bug.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367170 - 06/07/2016 17:52 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Thank you all, guys, you're amazing as always.

So, I very much suspect temp is an issue here. Every failed drive I pulled out of the box was nearly "OMFG hot". I say "nearly" just because occasionally I've touched hotter drives, but yes, these are on the very hot end of the spectrum of my personal experience. So, yes, great point, cooling is not ideal for sure.
Also, I started this thread because one drive just failed on me, yesterday, and interestingly it happened when temperature in Rome rised significantly and, in spite of AC at home, temp in the room where the drobo also increased.

Also, as you are correctly noticing, I've also been wondering if Drobo is being too conservative here and reports a drive as Failed when a PC or other NAS models would probably not. Only once I've tried to connect a drive to a PC (I should've done that more often), and interestingly it was recognized and I could format it. But, it became unresponsive the day after, as I tried to stress it a bit by running a backup script TO it. So, I decided it was dead and did not spend more time analyzing.
However, latest failed drive is till at home on my desk, I'll give it a try and see if it is in fact still alive.

I suspect there's a combination of factors here, maybe:

1. Poor cooling
2. Possibly, conservative approach at marking a drive as "Failed"
3. Old drivers being used in my particular case.
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

Top
#367171 - 06/07/2016 17:55 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Did a fan go bad in your Drobo?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367172 - 06/07/2016 20:06 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: mlord]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Originally Posted By: Taym
2. WD 1TB, 2TB and 3TB Green drives. Various subversions of them

Hm. I had two WD 2TB drives fail in quick succession in my Synology NAS recently. I wonder if there's something to this.

We've had threads on the board here discussing hard drive brand failure experiences. Every time I've had these sorts of talks with other people, the only conclusion I can make is that everyone has horror stories about every brand of hard drive. Personally, I've had two Seagate drives fail on me, so I went all WD and I've never had a problem with any of them. For some people it's the opposite. My Synology has never had anything but WD drives - both green and red - and none of them have failed (yet).

Originally Posted By: mlord
I don't know about the Drobo, but a problem with nearly all of the small "home sized" NAS units that I have seen, is they simply don't keep the drives cool enough. Fan or no fan, the airflow design is nearly non-existent.

So I would bet on overheating, leading to media errors (aka. "bad sectors").

What would you consider to be too hot for a NAS drive? According to my dashboard my drives are showing temps of 88, 90, 90 and 99 (not sure why one is so much higher). This is with the fan at an inaudible level (from where I'm sitting), but I could adjust it higher.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367173 - 06/07/2016 21:35 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Dignan
the only conclusion I can make is that everyone has horror stories about every brand of hard drive.


Agreed. The only way to know for sure is with large statistical sample sizes, not anecdotal evidence from friends. That's why I love the Backblaze reports so dearly.

Though I have to say that when I read the Backblaze reports, I feel vindicated about all the hate I've heaped upon Seagate over the years.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367174 - 06/07/2016 22:03 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: tfabris
If it's got a fan on the drives, as long as the fan is working, I would think that would be good.
Maybe not... I have three hard drives in my sizeable tower case, plus an SSD tucked away by the CD burner. There is a good sized fan blowing directly on the hard drives. But... the guys who built the computer for me stacked the three hard drives one on top of the other, with no more than one or two millimeters between them, leaving two empty drive bays on top of them. (I told you it was a sizeable case!) This, I think, was less than ideal, and a month ago when I went to vacuum the dust bunnies out of the motherboard, I moved the drives so there is an empty bay between them. I didn't take any before/after temperature measurements, but I'd think they have to be running cooler now.

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Top
#367175 - 06/07/2016 22:19 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Agreed that they'll all be running cooler now, especially the middle drive. I specifically recall cooking a middle drive in that kind of layout once before.

But remember you're dealing with a case design and bay spacing which was originally meant for IBM PCs with an old, slow, cool-running HDD in one bay and a 5.5" floppy drive in the other bay. Later, that bay system was mostly intended to combine 1-2 HDDs, a CD-ROM, and a floppy. The design of the spacing of the bays isn't really optimal for a giant stack of modern high speed hard disks which put out a lot of heat. What you did, to give them better spacing, was very wise.

Most NAS units I've seen, though, include enough space in their default design to ventilate the drives and get the fan air moving past them. Though I haven't looked at a Drobo close-up: If the Drobo isn't doing that job sufficiently, then I agree that's a problem.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367176 - 06/07/2016 23:20 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: tfabris]
Taym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Did a fan go bad in your Drobo?


No... Why?
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

Top
#367177 - 07/07/2016 03:23 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: tfabris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: tfabris
That's why I love the Backblaze reports so dearly.

Though I have to say that when I read the Backblaze reports, I feel vindicated about all the hate I've heaped upon Seagate over the years.

I haven't seen those reports. I recall that Google released a report a while back, but decided not to name names.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367178 - 07/07/2016 03:26 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I haven't seen those reports.


I linked the most recent Backblaze report in my first reply in this thread. Here it is again:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/

Interesting things about the reports: Despite Seagate having (until this year) the worst reliability, Backblaze preferred to use them because they were cheap, plentiful, and easy to source.

I find this year's report interesting because of the massive improvement Seagate made since 2015. Still, HGST is the king, and has been for quite a while now.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

Top
#367179 - 07/07/2016 10:01 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I bought my Synology two years ago this week, and I've never had a drive fail on me (*knocking on wood*).


My Synology has two drives in it. I just checked and they're reporting ~35 °C (95 °F). It's a relatively warm day today (for the UK), and the NAS is in a cupboard.

OTOH, one of the disks is reporting a SMART error; it's done that since I first put it in the Synology. Earlier versions of DSM tried spinning all the disks up at once -- these disks (Samsung) wanted more power than it could provide -- disk now registers a permanent spin-up failure. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that there are no other SMART errors being hidden by this one.
_________________________
-- roger

Top
#367180 - 07/07/2016 11:44 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: tfabris]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Interesting things about the reports: Despite Seagate having (until this year) the worst reliability, Backblaze preferred to use them because they were cheap, plentiful, and easy to source.

And that's something you need to keep in mind when using their data. They can handle multiple drive failures without issue whereas the average home user can usually tolerate one failure at a time at most. So they value price and availability over reliability as that suits their installation. A home or even small business user would likely not.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

Top
#367181 - 07/07/2016 11:49 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
There's a lot of speculation here, but no need for much of it: the drive firmware records exactly what the issues are, and reports it via the S.M.A.R.T. interface.

Under Linux, one can read all of the data, along with the firmware's specified pain/temperature thresholds, with this command:

smartctl -a /dev/sd?

If a drive got too hot, it will show it.
If a drive developed media errors, it will (normally) show it. Except WD drives are known to cheat here.

If the failures are due to bad cabling or loose SATA connectors, it will show it. That happened to our server here just last week: smart data indicated UDMA_CRC errors, so I opened up the box, and could see exposed gold fingers on the connector. I shoved the connector back into place and made a mental note to get out the hot-melt glue gun later on (perhaps today!).

Cheers


Edited by mlord (07/07/2016 11:52)
Edit Reason: Added note about cable issues

Top
#367182 - 07/07/2016 12:01 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
For those who may never have seen all of this data before,
here is the output from the "failed" drive in my server.
Nothing wrong with it other than a loose connector at the time.
But the drive dutifully logs and remembers such issues.

Here is a short excerpt from the data, with only the parts
that are most important (to this specific drive) to keep an eye on:

Code:
Device Model:     Crucial_CT960M500SSD1
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
..
  5 Reallocate_NAND_Blk_Cnt 0x0033   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
171 Program_Fail_Count      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
172 Erase_Fail_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
173 Ave_Block-Erase_Count   0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   059   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       41 (0 51 255 150 0)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       314
202 Percent_Lifetime_Used   0x0031   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0
210 Success_RAIN_Recov_Cnt  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4

The important number here is usually the "RAW_VALUE" field.
You can see that the cabling has suffered 314 data transfer errors,
which is how I knew to look for a loose connector in the system.

Temperatures have ranged as high as 51C for this drive, currently at 41C.

The full report now follows:
Code:
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.6.3] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Crucial/Micron MX100/MX200/M5x0/M600 Client SSDs
Device Model:     Crucial_CT960M500SSD1
Serial Number:    xxxxxxxxxxxx
LU WWN Device Id: 5 00a075 xxxxxxxxxx
Firmware Version: MU05
User Capacity:    960,197,124,096 bytes [960 GB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    Solid State Device
Form Factor:      2.5 inches
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 6
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Thu Jul  7 08:16:33 2016 EDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x82) Offline data collection activity
                                        was completed without error.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever 
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:                (10235) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  74) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   3) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x0035) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       9
  5 Reallocate_NAND_Blk_Cnt 0x0033   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       22705
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       33
171 Program_Fail_Count      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
172 Erase_Fail_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
173 Ave_Block-Erase_Count   0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8
174 Unexpect_Power_Loss_Ct  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       20
180 Unused_Reserve_NAND_Blk 0x0033   000   000   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       16523
183 SATA_Interfac_Downshift 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
184 Error_Correction_Count  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   059   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       41 (0 51 255 150 0)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       314
202 Percent_Lifetime_Used   0x0031   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0
206 Write_Error_Rate        0x000e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
210 Success_RAIN_Recov_Cnt  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4
246 Total_Host_Sector_Write 0x0032   100   100   ---    Old_age   Always       -       7996121592
247 Host_Program_Page_Count 0x0032   100   100   ---    Old_age   Always       -       250001071
248 Bckgnd_Program_Page_Cnt 0x0032   100   100   ---    Old_age   Always       -       363762998

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22696         -
# 2  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22682         -
# 3  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22668         -
# 4  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22654         -
# 5  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22640         -
# 6  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22626         -
# 7  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22613         -
# 8  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22599         -
# 9  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22585         -
#10  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22571         -
#11  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22557         -
#12  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22543         -
#13  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22530         -
#14  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22516         -
#15  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22502         -
#16  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22488         -
#17  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22474         -
#18  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22460         -
#19  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22446         -
#20  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22434         -
#21  Vendor (0xff)       Completed without error       00%     22420         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Top
#367183 - 07/07/2016 12:27 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Oddly enough, I have two of these supposedly identical drives in that system,
yet smartctl reports temperatures differently for the second one,
with somewhat more readable output:
Code:
194 Temperature_Celsius  ...  40 (Min/Max 0/46)

Top
#367184 - 07/07/2016 16:39 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
I challenge your assertion that all home NAS devices don't offer proper airflow to keep the drives cool. My drives are hovering around an average of 93 degrees, which seems to be pretty good from what I've been able to read up on (you didn't answer my question about what you thought was an acceptable range).

And those are temperatures in my rather warm office. Where my NAS sits it's regularly 78 degrees (F). When I open up my Synology's front cover, I can see a fairly generous amount of space around the drives, particularly at the ends. The cover its self is designed to let air in through every edge, with the fan being directly on the other side of the unit. It seems that the hottest drive is the one that's farthest-right and furthest from the direct airflow, so that makes sense and is unfortunate, but it's still well within range, IMO.

*edit*

I just tried upping the fan speed in the Synology dashboard, and now all drives are 29-33C. That's with the fan at "full-speed mode." Previously I had it on "quiet mode," and there's also a "cool mode." Full-speed is a tiny bit too loud for my taste (but really not too bad - I could live with it), so I'll probably back it down to cool mode.


Edited by Dignan (07/07/2016 17:32)
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367185 - 07/07/2016 16:41 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
BTW, if anyone is looking for a simple SMART data reader, Speccy is a nice application. It gives you a good amount of information on your computer.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367186 - 07/07/2016 18:20 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: Dignan
BTW, if anyone is looking for a simple SMART data reader, Speccy is a nice application. It gives you a good amount of information on your computer.
I found it, downloaded it, installed it, and I really like the simple interface. I'm not S.M.A.R.T. enough smile to make much sense of what Mark posted, but this output (see attached screenshot) even I can understand. A little bit, anyway.

Very nice, Thank you.

tanstaafl


Attachments
speccy 01.png (200 downloads)

_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Top
#367187 - 07/07/2016 21:21 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I challenge your assertion that all home NAS devices..


No such assertion to challenge.

Top
#367188 - 07/07/2016 21:25 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Taym]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
No problem! It's a helpful program in my work, when I don't always know what's inside the computer I'm working on, and the Windows properties screen has such useless information. CCleaner, also by that developer, is a nice utility for cleaning off junk files, and is great for cleaning up unwanted startup entries. I would leave it on my clients' computers for them to use but I'm worried they'll use the built in registry cleaner.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367189 - 07/07/2016 21:28 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: mlord]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: mlord
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I challenge your assertion that all home NAS devices..

No such assertion to challenge.
Originally Posted By: mlord
...a problem with nearly all of the small "home sized" NAS units that I have seen, is they simply don't keep the drives cool enough. Fan or no fan, the airflow design is nearly non-existent.
_________________________
Matt

Top
#367190 - 07/07/2016 21:44 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
... My drives are hovering around an average of 93 degrees ...

And those are temperatures in my rather warm office. Where my NAS sits it's regularly 78 degrees (F)....

I just tried upping the fan speed in the Synology dashboard, and now all drives are 29-33C...
Is that 93 degrees C or F ?

How are you measuring the Fahrenheit temperatures?

Top
#367192 - 08/07/2016 13:34 Re: Drobo HDDs: high failure rate? [Re: Dignan]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dignan
Originally Posted By: mlord
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I challenge your assertion that all home NAS devices..

No such assertion to challenge.
Originally Posted By: mlord
...a problem with nearly all of the small "home sized" NAS units that I have seen, is they simply don't keep the drives cool enough. Fan or no fan, the airflow design is nearly non-existent.

Exactly.

But on a somewhat related note: what does the drive firmware (S.M.A.R.T.) show as the maximum (ever) recorded temperature for those drives? That's the number you should be most interested in. Drives sitting idle don't get nearly as hot as those under heavy load stress. If that's also still good and low for your drives, then no big worries there.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (08/07/2016 13:39)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >