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#74017 - 01/03/2002 07:47 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: matthew_k]
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
I don't know if anyone other than Tony has taken this on, but I am about 80% through. I did the knob portion first on wednesday, that was actually pretty easy. Last night I did the button resistor pack, man what a bitch that is! Tonight I will finish up with the button led's and test it out. I am assuming my work so far is ok because I don't have a continuity tester or multimeter. It all looks good under the magnifying glass though.
For people nervous about trying this, don't be. You can't screw anything up except the VFD, be very careful when bending this sucker! If you mess up with the solder, just desolder and start over. It took me at least 4 tries to get that damn resister pack on and I don't know for certain it's on right. But my confidence is high, repeat, confidence is high.
Just try it and if you are scared by the flea sized components as Tony said, maybe Brian will give you a refund if the kit is unused?

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#74018 - 01/03/2002 07:57 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: puckalicious]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
:For people nervous about trying this, don't be. You can't screw anything up except the VFD, be very careful when bending this sucker! If you mess up with the solder, just desolder and start over.

Um... I disagree with ya? My unit is pretty much whacked now, granted it seems to be isolated to the VFD however being that the project is EOL, it's pretty much unknown whether or not you can even get a replacement VFD? Now I'm in the process of trying to get repair but I've gotten no response. If you occasionally solder things and aren't used to a soldering iron, even if you think you can do this... think twice... I've been soldering for years, everything looked good on mine under a magnifying glass, however now I'm waiting for repair. I'm not saying I think this hack is bad idea, on the contrary I think it's really really cool, however I felt confident and things went bad.... Just a warning... don't do this unless you know what your doing... don't do this if you think you know what your doing.. only do this if you KNOW you KNOW what your doing.


Edited by lopan (01/03/2002 08:23)
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74019 - 01/03/2002 09:14 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
Is it absolutely essential to bend the VFD back? I.e. what about simply de-soldering and removing it?

Rue

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#74020 - 01/03/2002 09:25 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: guardian__J]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
thanks for replying here so others wouldn't also think Mark was being censored...

As far as I know, not a single person has been censored on this board. There were a few threads that were closed (maybe 2?!) and asked to "take it to the off-topic forum" but no one has even been denied the chance to speak their mind. Even a troll or two! Of course... I'm thinking we have a new troll on the board... but I'll leave it at that.

At one point, some members, including myself, were practically begging Tony and others to start moderating this board. Wisely, they didn't and just let things sort out. Even Osama got bored and left.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#74021 - 01/03/2002 09:37 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: AndrewT]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
bending the VFD isn't a big deal at all, it's the easiest way to access where you need to solder. You probably could remove it, but that would involve A LOT of soldering, which you might want to avoid.
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74022 - 01/03/2002 09:58 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30536
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah, just bending the VFD is much much easier than desoldering it.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#74023 - 02/03/2002 10:26 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
In reply to:


Um... I disagree with ya? My unit is pretty much whacked now, granted it seems to be isolated to the VFD however being that the project is EOL, it's pretty much unknown whether or not you can even get a replacement VFD?




It seems you just repeated what I said after you disagreed with me.
Well I finally finished everything this morning and it looks real nice. Many thanks to Brian for selling this kit and Tony for trying it first. Would definitely like to see some gray translucent buttons.


Attachments
74832-empeg-lightedbuttons2.JPG (688 downloads)


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#74024 - 02/03/2002 10:51 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1986
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
however being that the project is EOL, it's pretty much unknown whether or not you can even get a replacement VFD?

The display itself is a component that is still available from various places - the rest of the display board is another issue though...

/Michael
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/Michael

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#74025 - 02/03/2002 11:10 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: puckalicious]
Nosferatu
enthusiast

Registered: 24/08/2001
Posts: 344
Loc: France, Champagne
How did you obtain Red Colored Buttons ?

I have a Red Fascia and I'd like to have this kit also.

I know Brian sells its but I want to know if we can ask for custom color leds ...
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Empeg IIa - 10 Gb - Red Fascia - Tuner, the day is coming - I Will Strike From the Grey -

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#74026 - 02/03/2002 12:05 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: puckalicious]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
I don't really understand what I repeated? You made it sound kind of easy and that the VFD was no big deal, I simply said "It's not that easy" and I didn't realize VFD's were easy to replace. But good job! Looks nice!

Michael, what places offer replacement VFD's besides the guys at empeg themselves? (just curious as to if theres a vendor in the US that I can buy from)
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74027 - 02/03/2002 13:53 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1986
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
No idea where to find it in the US - do a web search for Noritake (brand) and MN12832E (model), or try contacting any of the US addresses listed at http://www.noritake-elec.com/sales.htm This is for the raw display, glass and leads to be soldered to the board (no integrated driver electronics).

If that doesn't help, a friend of mine bought one from somewhere for a project for his computer. I could ask him where he got it...

/Michael
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/Michael

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#74028 - 02/03/2002 14:38 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
beaker
addict

Registered: 19/08/2000
Posts: 588
Loc: England
I had to replace the VFD when I dropped my MK2. You'll find a thread about it here. I got mine from Empeg although I could probably have got it from Itron (UK) but I might have had to buy more than one. I see Noritake Itron have some sales offices in the US so you might be able to get one from them. Also linked to by mtempsch in the previous post.
_________________________
Marcus 32 gig MKII (various colours) & 30gig MKIIa

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#74029 - 02/03/2002 14:48 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mtempsch]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
Thanks but that really doesn't help being that the VFD works it's the board itself (probably should've specified that), IR doesn't work, extremely dim, things like that.... Talked to tech support, they said I probably either damaged the power circuitry or did something bad to the dimmer. Thats kinda what I meant when discussing the fact that the project is EOL... Sorry I probably should have been more detailed in my description of the problems I've run into now. But thanks anyway.
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Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74030 - 02/03/2002 20:21 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: puckalicious]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Damn, it's scary how well everything in that picture matches! Very nice.

BTW, for anyone else, the LEDs are a fairly standard part (around here anyway) and are available in a few colours. YMMV though, because some are known to be brighter than others. I put some smokey white ones into my PC late in 2000 that are very (VERY!) bright. I have a smoke-coloured lense in front of them and they still light up a large area when I turn the lights off in the room. Without the lense they're like spots coming off my computer. (BTW, they're the same LEDs Apple uses in some of its G4 machines - they've also used the larger ones at times).

This is one sweet kit. Glad Brian went through with it after breifly mentioning it long ago. BTW, Brian, if you reading, do you have anything installed with only 2 LEDs on the rotary knob you might be able to get a picture of? (That question can go out to anyone I guess)

Bruno
All typos left in to be corrected by Bitt.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#74031 - 03/03/2002 01:02 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
justinlarsen
old hand

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 1109
Loc: Petaluma, CA
hey lopan did you doubl cheat the soilder points? make sure none are touching each other.. and if your not scared about bring the iron back.. try the simmer fix.. i mean you got next to ntohing to loose if it fails.. they have a video for it as well.. its worth a shot you know?
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---- Justin Larsen

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#74032 - 03/03/2002 09:38 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: justinlarsen]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
I'm almost positive thats not happening, I removed the chip and then did short tests on all the solder points before I reassembled. I might crack it open and check again.
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74033 - 03/03/2002 11:31 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: justinlarsen]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
I've now got pretty much the same problem here. Solder points are all good, everything triple-checked with a suitable ohm-meter, the buttonhack LEDs all turn on/off just fine on command from (customized) Hijack. But display is now very dim, standby LED is on when display is on, off when display is off, and the unit ignores the remote.

Soldering job was as close to immaculate as possible by hand, but something somewhere is unhappy.

I'll track it down eventually.

-ml

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#74034 - 03/03/2002 16:57 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1078
Loc: UK
Measure the voltage at TP1, on the rear of the display board at the top. It should
be 60v, plus or minus about 2 or 3 volts.

pca

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Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#74035 - 03/03/2002 17:17 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: pca]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
>Measure the voltage at TP1, on the rear of the display board
>at the top. It should be 60v, plus or minus about 2 or 3 volts.

Mmm.. 35VAC. And only 4VDC on the +5VDC points.

So both onboard supplies are running on the low side. I wonder where the control point is?

-ml


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#74036 - 03/03/2002 17:32 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3449
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
If you're getting 4v on the 5v rail, you may have blown something on the main board - check the 3 fuses on the main board near the display connector. These are only generally blown if the display board connector is plugged in a pin out.

The low voltage could also indicate a high current draw on the display board due to a short.

35v explains the dim display, but you need to look for the reason why. I can't remember the 60v display cct off the top of my head, but it may use the 5v supply divided down as a reference, which would mean if 5v dips, so does the 60v supply.

Hugo

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#74037 - 03/03/2002 17:33 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
And TP26 appears to be the 12V master supply, measuring 10.8VDC when the display is on, and roughly 0VDC when the display is off.

-ml

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#74038 - 03/03/2002 17:45 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: altman]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
>If you're getting 4v on the 5v rail, you may have blown something
>on the main board - check the 3 fuses on the main board near
>the display connector. These are only generally blown if
>the display board connector is plugged in a pin out.

Hugo, you're a god!

The three little white fuses all look fine to the eye,
but the one closest to the rear docking connector shows
infinite resistance -- the other two are fine at 0 ohms.

Do these just feed directly to the ribbon cable header
for the display board? If so, I'll check for shorts
on that line before blowing the replacement fuse.

I don't think I ever plugged the connnector on wrong,
but anything is possible at this point. I'll pick up
a replacement fuse tomorrow and see if things behave any better.

Thanks!

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#74039 - 03/03/2002 18:14 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1078
Loc: UK
So both onboard supplies are running on the low side.

The SMPSU chip is powered by the 5v rail, so if this is low the calibration will
be completely off.

As a further test, measure the voltage at TP37 (next to the inductor on the back
of the PCB). This should be around 14-15v, as it is the DC input line direct from the input jack via a diode or two.

Check pin 2 of PL2 ( second from the left, looking at the PCB from the back). This
should be 5v.

All the pins on the side of the resistor pack nearest the center of the display board
are connected to 5v. Check this voltage as well, it should be 5v.

If it isn't, unplug the display board, turn the empeg on, and check the voltage on pin
16 of the display connector (third from the left end, bottom row, looking from the
front of the empeg). This is the main 5v rail to the display board. Also check pin 14
(next pin on the right) for 3v, and either pin 19 or 20 (left end of the connector) for
the DC IN voltage of around 14v. If any of these voltages measure 0v, one of the
main fuses has blown.

Assuming the 5v supply from the empeg main board is present, measure the
resistance from pin 16 of the ribbon cable to any pin on the center-pcb side of the
resistor pack. This should be near enough 0 ohms. If it isn't, the likelyhood is a
burned out or damaged track.

Also, what value resistor pack has been fitted? It should be 1K. If it is
considerably lower than this, it is possible that the IR PIC could be damaged due
to overcurrent, which would kill the dimmer, the IR recieve, and the switches.

Pca
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Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#74040 - 03/03/2002 18:39 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: pca]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
Okay, the fuse nearest the docking connector is blown (Hugo also just now suggested checking those). What capacity replacement should I use?

The resistor pack for the LEDs is 560 ohm per leg. I've verified no shorts etc. on the installation (the parts are all listed on Brian's site at http://www.hulkster.net/empeg/buttons/ledhowto.php3).

I'll do the other measures, and look for a short on the line connected to the blown fuse, when I get back to the machine later tonight.

Thanks!

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#74041 - 03/03/2002 18:40 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: altman]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13471
Loc: Canada
Got a suggestion for replacement fuse rating? This is for the fuse nearest the rear docking connector.

Thanks

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#74042 - 03/03/2002 18:54 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1078
Loc: UK
The fuses are 1A 1206 surface-mount ones.

The question remains, of course, why the fuse blew...

pca

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Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#74043 - 03/03/2002 19:11 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: pca]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How is Pixels doing?

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#74044 - 03/03/2002 20:03 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: mlord]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
Too cool, just checked mine and it is indeed the small white fuse closest to the connector on the display board side... I can also verify that, YES like an idiot I plugged the display connector in wrong... Thanks guys, anyone got a digikey part number for that fuse?
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74045 - 03/03/2002 20:09 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
Will this work? I just ordered these off digikey heres the description
FUSE 1.00A 63V FAST 1206 SMT

Thanks
Brett
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#74046 - 04/03/2002 02:09 Re: Backlit buttons by Brian Mihulka [Re: lopan]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1078
Loc: UK
That's the one.

There seems to be a common thread here, ie people plugging the display board in
incorrectly. I would suggest that anyone else doing the button mod check very
carefully that they have the ribbon cable header connected properly before
powering up for the first time. It sounds obvious, but it's easy to do unless you
check visually if you're not used to it.

Luckily it seldom causes anything other that a blown fuse, but a) they're a pain
to replace if you don't have the experience, and b) it can be more serious if
you're unlucky, up to and including zapping the SA1100.

pca

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