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#89528 - 21/04/2002 05:17 Using compactflash cards in the Empeg
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi everyone

I want to use my Empeg as image storage for pictures taken with my digital camera. I bought a Compactflash to IDE converter ( CF-IDE-44 from http://www.flashmemory.com.au/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=3&cat=FlashMemory+Disk+Drives), and I am now trying to get my Empeg to recognise an inserted compactflashcard as slave HDD at boot time.

My problem is, that during boot the Empeg only detects the flashcard (hdb) but NOT my master HDD (hda).
When i eject the compactflash card from the converter and boot again, the Empeg detects the HDD (hda) and continues booting.

It seems to me as if the insertion of the compactflashcard in the converter blocks the detection of my master harddrive ?

The compactflash(8Mb) comes straight from the digital camera and is FAT formatted - but this should not stop the two "HDD"s from being correctly detected at boot ?

Here is the disk detection part of the boot sequence WITH a compactflash card inserted in the converter:

empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
ide0: unexpected interrupt, status=0x80, count=1
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, 7MB w/1kB Cache, CHS=245/2/32
empeg-flash driver initialized
smc chip id/revision 0x3349
smc9194.c:v0.12 03/06/96 by Erik Stahlman (erik@vt.edu)

SMC9194: SMC91C94(r:9) at 0x4008000 IRQ:7 INTF:TP MEM:6144b MAC 00:02:d7:22:07:60
Partition check:
hdb: hdb1
RAMDISK: Couldn't find valid RAM disk image starting at 0.
VFS: Cannot open root device 03:05
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:05


And here is the same part without the flashcard inserted:

empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, 5729MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=12416/15/63
empeg-flash driver initialized
smc chip id/revision 0x3349
smc9194.c:v0.12 03/06/96 by Erik Stahlman (erik@vt.edu)

SMC9194: SMC91C94(r:9) at 0x4008000 IRQ:7 INTF:TP MEM:6144b MAC 00:02:d7:22:07:60
Partition check:
hda: [PTBL] [776/240/63] hda1 < hda5 hda6 > hda2 hda3 hda4
RAMDISK: Couldn't find valid RAM disk image starting at 0.
EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
.....


My Empeg is a MkIIa running the 2.00b11 firmware with Hijack 243

Does anyone have an idea of what might be wrong ?

Regards
Nicolai

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#89529 - 21/04/2002 08:09 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Don't suppose you've got it set to one drive only in the Hard Disk Detection menu in Hijack do you?

Also does your adapter have any jumpers for master/slave?

- Trevor

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#89530 - 21/04/2002 09:55 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: tman]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi Trevor

Just checked the Hard Disk Detection menu in Hijack and it is set to two drives...
The adapter has a master/slave jumper which is set to slave...

In the meantime I discovered something else:
If I try to run the CF card as master and the HDD as slave they both get detected allright. My problem is, that I need to do it the other way around, as I do not have the Empeg kernel on the CF cards....

/Nicolai

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#89531 - 21/04/2002 09:58 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Could it be a cable positioning issue?
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#89532 - 21/04/2002 10:00 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
First of all, I thought that those compact flash readers required driver software support. I didn't think you could just plug one in.

Next thing:

Even if you can get the thing to read, there is no advantage to using a compact flash card as the second hard disk because the empeg's software does not support removable drives.

For instance, the player stores its FIDs pretty much will-nilly on the drives and you cannot control which songs go where. You cannot load new tunes by dropping them on a CF card and inserting it. The player software simply doesn't support this method of operation and certain features of its design (because it assumes the second drive is a fixed disk and it will attempt to use it as such) will thwart any of your attempts to do this.

Also, you said you had it FAT-formatted. This will not work for the player. You -must- run the builder image on any new disk or else it will not have the right partitions.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#89533 - 21/04/2002 10:10 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark

Hi Tony

I don't want to use the CF cards for storing music.
My plan was to be able to transfer images captured with my digital camera from the CF card to the players harddrive.
I want to launch a script after boot (using the preinit method) to check to see if there is a CF card plugged in - and then cp the images to a directory on the harddrive.

I always take a lot of photos while I'm away on holiday, and using the Empeg as extended storage would make it possible for me to leave the laptop PC at home....

Paul: I tried switching positions on the cable - that is placing the HDD before/after the CF adapter - but with no luck.

Regards
Nicolai

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#89534 - 21/04/2002 10:53 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I think your clue might be this line:
ide0: unexpected interrupt, status=0x80, count=1

I don't understand the error, and Google didn't help me too much, but If Mark Lord isn't to busy, he may understand it since it may be his code generating the error.

Tony: It looks like his CF reader will work fine, the kernel is seeing it properly as a normal IDE device, so no drivers needed.
_________________________
Tom

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#89535 - 21/04/2002 12:06 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: drakino]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi everyone

Now I'm confused:
I got hold of two other CFcards and while one of them showed the same symptoms (refused to coexist with my master HDD) the second one worked just fine (16 Mb Lexar CF):

empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, ATA DISK drive
hdb: LEXAR ATA_FLASH, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hda: TOSHIBA MK6014MAP, 5729MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=12416/15/63
hdb: LEXAR ATA_FLASH, 15MB w/1kB Cache, CHS=251/4/32
empeg-flash driver initialized

I am absolutely sure that the three CF cards are formatted the same way (FAT), as I have done this using my digicam.

Here are the results using the other two cards:

(64 Mb Sandisk CF):
empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, ATA DISK drive
ide0: unexpected interrupt, status=0x80, count=1
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-64, 61MB w/1kB Cache, CHS=490/8/32
empeg-flash driver initialized

(8Mb Sandisk CF):
empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive
ide0: unexpected interrupt, status=0x80, count=1
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hdb: SanDisk SDCFB-8, 7MB w/1kB Cache, CHS=245/2/32
empeg-flash driver initialized

I have ruled out Hijack role in this (I got the exact same results after having uninstalled Hijack), so I think it might be Sandisk's implementation of the IDE interface that might be different than Lexars.
It may be that the Sandisk cards cannot be slaves to another drive - I will try to figure that one out...

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions - this board is excellent....

By the way - do you know if I have to rebuild the kernel to get FAT support in there ?

Regards
Nicolai

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#89536 - 21/04/2002 12:19 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
By the way - do you know if I have to rebuild the kernel to get FAT support in there ?

It looks like you will. The .config file in my current tree contains "# CONFIG_FAT_FS is not set".
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#89537 - 21/04/2002 16:43 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: tfabris]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 1940
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
In reply to:

I thought that those compact flash readers required driver software support. I didn't think you could just plug one in.




That's the beauty of compact flash. It has three different interface types. One of them is called True IDE mode where the device emulates a standard IDE interface when certain pins are wired correctly. You can plug them straight into a PC if you want to. What you will need drivers for though is hot plugging/unplugging but this will also require buffer hardware which these cheapo adapters do not have.

Anyways this sounds very much like the problem where some drives don't like co-operating with each other.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#89538 - 21/04/2002 23:14 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
This sounds like a problem I remember from dealing with the I-Opener, but it only happened with a Linux kernel newer than something (maybe 2.4.2) and it could be worked around with an argument to the kernel. If I can find my notes I will post them.

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#89539 - 22/04/2002 02:33 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: Shonky]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark

Hi Christian

I think you are right about the different type of compactflash.
Out of my 3 CF cards only one of them would coexist as slaves with my master harddrive. The ones that failed was both Sandisk cards - the one that worked was a Lexar card.

My only problem now is to get FAT support compiled into the kernel....

Regards
Nicolai

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#89540 - 22/04/2002 02:37 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: pgrzelak]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi Paul

Thanks for your response..

I found out that there are different types of compactflash types - regarding IDE/ATA compatibility.

Some cards are more compliant than other - 2 out of my 3 CF cards would not coexist as slaves with my master harddrive - while another one worked just fine...

Regards
Nicolai

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#89541 - 22/04/2002 02:59 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
smu
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2000
Posts: 879
Loc: Germany (Ruhrgebiet)
Hi.

Just wanted to let you know that I had very similar experiences with my CF cards:
My SanDisk would not work as an IDE slave, my Lexar did. Also, my TRGpro handheld works smoothly with the Lexar, but has a lot of trouble working with the SanDisk one. My notebook also reads and writes the Lexar just fine (with a CF to PC-Card adapter), but to read the SanDisk one, I had to get a USB reader for it.

cu,
sven
_________________________
proud owner of MkII 40GB & MkIIa 60GB both lit by God and HiJacked by Lord

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#89542 - 22/04/2002 03:28 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: smu]
justinlarsen
old hand

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 1109
Loc: Petaluma, CA
dito
_________________________
---- Justin Larsen

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#89543 - 22/04/2002 05:31 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: smu]
thenominous
member

Registered: 22/12/2001
Posts: 189
Loc: UK
and to think that I always took SanDisk as the leaders of compact flash and heck all the other mini data store media!
Its from their site that I gleaned all of this info for some past project IIRC...

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#89544 - 22/04/2002 06:13 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Cool. I want one.

For those who are stuck with MS-Win, you'll be suprised to discover that CF cards do NOT require a special driver under Linux, since they emulate a hard disk drive interface (IDE/ATA) rather well.

The reason for the problem reported here is because of this near perfect emulation.. Linux can sit there probing for a long time for a second (non-existant) drive when a CF card is on the bus (cable) by itself.

Back when this issue first surfaced (about 4-5 years ago), I put a quick hack into the "frozen" kernel to just skip the wait for a second drive under most conditions when a CF card was found, since they were NEVER paired up with another device at the time.

There was also a note left behind to "fix it properly" once the 2.2 kernel got released and the code freeze was lifted. Unfortunately, Linus took FOREVER to release 2.2 (like a year or more after the "freeze"), and by then I had given up maintaining the IDE subsystem for free. So the hack is still there.. ugh.

Anyway, I'll nuke it from the Empeg kernel for Hijack v262, available in 5-10 minutes from now.

Let me know if it behaves any better for you.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (22/04/2002 06:13)

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#89545 - 22/04/2002 09:21 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: mlord]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi Mark

Thanks a lot for your effort with Hijack.

Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem with two of my CF cards not wanting to coexist as slaves to the master harddrive.
I still get the same messages at boot - I posted them here: http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=empeg_tech&Number=87739&page=&view=&sb=&o=

Perhaps it is the near perfect IDE emulation you mention, which might be better implemented on my working Lexar card than on my two Sandisk cards ?

Regards
Nicolai

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#89546 - 22/04/2002 09:25 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: mlord]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
Wow, it's good to have the "Linux IDE guy" on the payroll here, isn't it?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#89547 - 22/04/2002 09:55 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Mmm.. bummer.

I'd expect the Sandisk cards to work in that situation. Quite strange that they don't. I only have Lexar cards (and an IBM microdrive) here, so I cannot poke around easily to see what's special about them.

Wanna send me your card & adaptor?

Cheers

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#89548 - 22/04/2002 12:06 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: mlord]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Well, I think it isn't too much of you to ask, with all the work you put into Hijack, so here you go Mark:



I have no clue on how to interface your Empeg with that jpeg though...

I'm receiving a 256 Mb Kingston CF card later this week, and I'm looking forward to see if their implementation of the IDE standard is better than Sandisks.
Perhaps they don't even produce their own cards but just put the Kingston label on a Lexar or Sandisk card (the "Viking" card on the picture gets identified by my Empeg as "LEXAR ATA_FLASH, ATA DISK drive" while a Canon card I also have reports "SanDisk SDCFB-8, ATA DISK drive").

Btw: Does anyone in this forum have a precompiled kernel with FAT support built in already ?
It does not need to be the latest version - it's just for testing if I can read data from my CF card onto the Empeg...
I read the FAQ about compiling the kernel, but I think my Linux/gcc kernel-compiling skills have faded a bit in the last couple of years

/Nicolai

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#89549 - 22/04/2002 13:42 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I still have my crosscompiler here on one of the lab machines, I'll grab the B11 patch and toss in hijack, enable FAT, and post it. Should have it done in a few hours.
_________________________
Tom

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#89550 - 22/04/2002 17:26 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: drakino]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Note to self, saying this makes more calls come in.

I'll work on the kernel tomorrow if you don't have it yet. It got really busy this afternoon, plus Tony distracted me in the few moments I had free to find an image. (Not a huge distraction, I still wouldn't have gotten it compiled).
_________________________
Tom

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#89551 - 22/04/2002 20:48 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: drakino]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
Tony distracted me in the few moments I had free to find an image.

Or, in this case, to search in vain for the image, leaving Tony to create the image himself.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#89552 - 22/04/2002 20:49 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
And I just wanted to say that if you can get this working, it's a cool idea for a project. Sorry for making an incorrect initial assumption about the purpose of the flash card interface. Good luck.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#89553 - 23/04/2002 10:17 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Kernel for a Mk2 v2.00b11 with Hijack v262 and FAT support is here

- Trevor

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#89554 - 23/04/2002 11:00 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: tman]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Yippieeee! It works...
Upgraded the kernel, booted the Empeg and then did this:

empeg:/# rw
empeg:/# mount -t msdos /dev/hdc1 /mnt/cf
empeg:/# ls -al /mnt/cf/dcim/122canon/
total 540
drwxrwxr-x 2 0 0 4096 Apr 21 2002 .
drwxrwxr-x 3 0 0 4096 Apr 21 2002 ..
-rwxrwxr-x 1 0 0 542521 Apr 21 2002 img_2260.jpg
empeg:/#

Thanks a lot for the kernel Trevor...

Now I will start coding a shell script to look for a CF card at boot and then copy and verify the images to the harddrive...

I don't hope that Drakino or Tony got too much work done with compiling the kernel now that you beat them to it

Thanks to everyone in this thread - and in the forum - for your support...

Regards
Nicolai

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#89555 - 23/04/2002 11:25 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: nkildal]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
If you've got the date command on your empeg then you could make it create a unique directory and then just recursively copy the entire CF card to the HD. That why you won't have any problems if the camera resets the file numbers for some reason.

#!/bin/sh
DIRECTORY = `date +%d%m%y-%k%M%S`
mkdir $DIRECTORY
cp --preserve --recursive /mnt/* $DIRECTORY

- Trevor

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#89556 - 23/04/2002 11:36 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: tman]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Trevor, what was the additional footprint due to te inclusion of FAT in the kernel?

I'm wondering if it is desirable for it to be included in Hijack by default or whether people who want this are going to have to compile their own binaries when upgrading Hijack.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#89557 - 23/04/2002 11:53 Re: Using compactflash cards in the Empeg [Re: tman]
nkildal
new poster

Registered: 23/02/2002
Posts: 23
Loc: Aarhus, Denmark
Great idea, but I don't seem to have the date command on my Empeg.
Do you know where I can download additional binaries for the Empeg/StrongARM ?

/Nicolai

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