#277309 - 10/03/2006 22:27
Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I have made a few changes to my living room set-up over the past week or so. I have finally got my self a nice sub and a better centre speaker. The shopping around I have done has started me off on a hunt for a new TV too. I have no intention on buying one for the next couple of years, but if I am spending £3k on something I like to think about it first  But I am having trouble understanding the term "HD Ready". There are 3 main levels of HD quality right? Can any "HD Ready" display all HD streams at full quality or is there a degree of down mixing going on? Does the res of the panel itself make any great difference? They all seem pretty low res to me. And what is up with the price of HDMI leads? I thought they started all that to get around expensive DVI cables. I saw a 3m cable in Comet today for £149.99 that boasted "improved image quality" pahhhhhhh! Rant over. Anyone know how to set up a sub properly? can't get mine sounding quite right and none of the tips on the net are helping! Cheers Cris
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#277310 - 10/03/2006 22:58
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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"HD Ready" just means that you are looking at a monitor with no HD tuner built in. The displays range from 6:4 to 16:9 ratios and from 720p to 1080i or even 1080p. They will up convert any SD signals to whatever their native display ratio is and may down convert based on the set.
To be an HD set, you need a built-in tuner. I prefer HD-Ready because the sets are cheaper and you're not paying for a tuner while the industry figures out what standards they want.
If you though HDMI cables were outrageous, take a look at an HDMI switcher!
To set up a subwoofer properly, you'll some good test tones and a sound meter. I wonder if my empeg sound guide would help there? I have one of those DVDs full of test tones and patterns to tweak my whole setup. I recommend spending the extra $30-50 to get one. It's a small investment to get the most out of an expensive TV. For us, the popular ones are AVIA and Video Essentials. Those are NTSC not PAL as far as I know..
Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (10/03/2006 23:02)
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Brad B.
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#277311 - 10/03/2006 23:22
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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So, why don't the manufacturers list what the native capabilities are? None of them list 720p etc.... I think that is what is throwing me.
Good point on the test tones, I already have a sound meter, where would I buy a cd/dvd like that from?
The main problem with the sub is that I don't know what it should sound like. Sound silly? I am finding it great with movies, but I watch a lot of music dvd's and I am finding the results a little disapointing, the bass is very slow, it's a Kef psw2500 and matches the rest of my system, reviews said it was good for music? Guess I'll have to get back on my knees.....
Cheers
Cris
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#277312 - 11/03/2006 01:01
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Woah there! HD-Ready can actually mean many things. Mostly it's useless terminology however.
480p TV can be called HD ready, as 480p is one of the many HD resolutions - so too with 540. This label on a set can be very misleading, and it only starts with resolution.
You need to look carefully at the resolution support of the TV and make sure it does 720p at least. A set that can handle 720p should handle 1080i without a problem. 1080p is a nice plus but it will cost you. Also check out any set in person to see how you like its black level and other image characteristics.
Now the bigger problem comes from those sets that do support the higher resolutions but have no HDCP. With these products (most products out there) you won't be able to play HD-DVD nor Bluray at full resolution to start . Nor any other HD source once they're all set to require HDCP.
I don't know how many (if any) TVs/monitors have any type of upgrade capacity to be able to add an HDCP board internally. Of course NVIDIA and ATI were also advertising HDCP-ready for years while it was complete BS. Every video card to date is completely useless when it comes to playing protected HD content at full resolution.
Bruno
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#277313 - 11/03/2006 03:33
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31571
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
So, why don't the manufacturers list what the native capabilities are?
They should.
If you're buying a TV from the Crutchfield catalog, for example, they have a chart that lists the panel resolutions of all the TVs in that catalog.
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#277314 - 11/03/2006 05:19
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
They should.
My TV of choice wouild be the Pioneer PDP-436SXE, but as you can see what HD signals are supported aren't listed anywhere. The panel also seems to be quite a low res at 1024x768?
The reason I picked this one out of the bunch was that it stood out at every display I have seen. The picture quality is amazing compared to the others next to it, but how future proof is it? The "HD Ready" logo seems to mean very little. I wouldn't want to spend that sort of money and be left behind when HD-DVD comes around.
Of course there is no way I am spending that sort of money at the moment
Cheers
Cris.
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#277315 - 11/03/2006 05:39
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Perhaps we're going about this from the wrong angle. What are you looking for in a television? How large is your living room? Do you have room for a rear projection TV? Are you dead set on mounting it on the wall?
If I were buying an HDTV today (and had a reasonably high budget), I'd either get one of the 37" panels capable of 1080p native, or a Rear Projection DLP set that could handle 1080i natively. While they've worked many of the bugs out of plasmas, they're still likely to burn in and have far lower resolution than the alternatives. They sure do look prety in stores though.
Matthew
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#277316 - 11/03/2006 06:44
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
HD Ready
Ah! Marketing speak bellowing like mastodoms across primaeval swamps! For the last few years it's been "Freeview" ready (Which loosely interpreted means: It's got a scart socket), but the suits need a new handle to boost sales. Yet the manufacturers seem very slow on the uptake, go in to Dixons, Currys or Comet and ask to see the freeview TV's and you'll not find much 'till very recently - come to think of it, ask the assistant to explain HD and you'll not learn much!! - And DAB has been equally slow on the uptake, but that's probably also the broadcasters fault for not knowing what to do with it: Freeview and FM are still the quality ways to hear radio in the UK.
I read one of the retailers trumpeting that recordable DVD sales had overtaken VHS tape sales, and yet, I'm prepared to bet that if I went in to any community, half to two thirds of viewers use VHS.
What it means is that tape sales have reached saturation, because people have been buying the things for years, but recordable DVD's are quite new and people are still going towards an optimum level for their needs. My point being that half to two thirds aren't bothered about recordable DVD's any more than they are about: Freeview (Until the government forces them), DAB or HD.
I'm probably putting myself up to be knocked down here, but I can't see that I'll be going the HD route, maybe if I watched a lot of feature films, not that I've had an objective opportunity to compare. I thought the guy from Samsung on the news in the week, comparing the difference as being as dramatic as moving from B/W to colo(u)r, was pushing it a bit!
As for your £150 HDMI lead, threads about, what I describe as, the emporer's invisible cloak have surfaced again recently. Suffice to say that a long, 5M, DVI is about £20 in Farnells and I'll take some convincing that I need to pay more.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#277317 - 11/03/2006 13:09
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I've never seen a Plasma that looks as good (picture wise) as a top LCD, quality DLP (not the 3-lens craptastic ones), or 3LCD projection. Plasma was a necessary evil when LCD production capacity and capabilities were still at a low point. It's moot now and buying one, IMO, is like throwing money out the window.
Bruno
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#277318 - 11/03/2006 13:15
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: boxer]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 524
Loc: Oklahoma
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Quote:
I thought the guy from Samsung on the news in the week, comparing the difference as being as dramatic as moving from B/W to colo(u)r, was pushing it a bit!
Dude! I used to feel the same way! I mean TV is TV right? Ha!
A friend of mine was selling his old regular TV because he just bought a HDTV. I was thinking about buying it from him and went over to his house to check it out. It was sitting right by his new tv...I was kidding him about having to 'keep up with the Jones!'...he laughed and told me to sit down and got me a cup of coffee. We watched 30 minutes of the Discovery channel It was a show on underwater stuff. I said ok I like the tv, and I would buy it from him...he laughed and said no watch this, and we watched the last part of the show in HD.... I went out the next day and bought a 52" HDTV. Anyone who knows me and what a cheap guy I am can apprecate that! I would even trade my beloved empeg for it.
And DVD's? Well you won't believe it...
Try it....you'll like it.....
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#277319 - 11/03/2006 14:18
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
I've never seen a Plasma that looks as good (picture wise) as a top LCD, quality DLP (not the 3-lens craptastic ones), or 3LCD projection. Plasma was a necessary evil when LCD production capacity and capabilities were still at a low point. It's moot now and buying one, IMO, is like throwing money out the window.
In a pitch black room, plasmas have much better better black levels than LCDs (although the newer LCDs are slowly improving on this aspect). However, once you turn on the room light, plasmas' polished glass panel, on the front, turns into a mirror and you can see yourself in your own TV. LCDs typically have a surface that diffuses light. You loose some contrast with ambient light, but you don't have distracting reflections. (If you live at a higher altitude, plasma may have other issues.)
Experiment: bring a flashlight with you when you go TV shopping. Point the flashlight at the screen while watching and see how obnoxious its reflection is to you.
I keep hearing that old-school CRTs (either direct-view tubes or rear projection) have the best, most saturated colors. However, you give up on some sharpness, you have to worry about convergence issues, they get dim over time, and repairs can be stupidly expensive (unless you're comfortable with a soldering iron).
The recent DLP rear-projector sets have really impressed me. I haven't looked into them seriously, but wandering through a Best Buy or something, they look remarkably good. The trick with DLP, LCOS, or any other rear-projector, is that they've got a very bright bulb driving the thing. That bulb will eventually burn out and they're not cheap to replace. You may want to purchase a spare when you buy the TV. Contrast this with the newest LCD panels that have white LED's behind the panel. Those may well last forever.
As to the earlier "HD-ready" thread, any modern HDTV should be compatible with both 1080i and 720p signals (unlike earlier TVs that only took one or the other). Fewer TVs will be compatible with 1080p. That's something to look for, particularly if you want to do some kind of home theater PC (the easiest way, today, to generate a 1080p signal). Furthermore, I wouldn't buy an HD-ready set that didn't have an HDMI connection on it, as that gives you some hope that future "copy protected" content might display properly on it. You have no such guarantee with DVI or component video.
Still, it's probably worth hunting around for a TV that's got a built-in HD tuner. My dad's Sharp Aquos has three coax inputs: one for an OTA antenna, one for analog cable, and a third for digital cable (with the accompanying CableCard slot). We hooked a $10 set of rabbit ears to the OTA connector and immediately had sharp HDTV local channels. (After about 24 hours, the Aquos also populated its built-in TV Guide thing, so it could even let you see what's on on the different channels. I have no idea which channels broadcast the metadata, but it's out there.)
Of course, if you're planning to just watch DVDs, or have some other HD tuner (e.g., a DirecTV HD-TiVo), then you don't need the built-in tuner. Regardless, it's a feature worth having.
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#277320 - 11/03/2006 14:37
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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You might find this file interesting - it's a Powerpoint presentation presumably shown to Sky HD installers, it goes into some detail about what the system will be supporting: http://www.fragglerock.me.uk/skyhd.pptGareth
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#277321 - 11/03/2006 16:34
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Great link! It has answered most of my questions. The conclusion is, only people with money to burn buy a HD TV at the moment Cheers Cris.
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#277322 - 11/03/2006 18:27
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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I like the big bit at the end about handling people who have been sold TVs thinking they're HD compatible but aren't. Quite amusing....
I've just bought 7 plasmas and it's amazing what difference 400 quid can make. I've got 6 Philips 42 inch units which I bought for £949 which In my opinion look shite. However I have a 42 inch HD Pioneer that I got for £1400 which is pretty damn good.
That said, I'll stick with my 32 inch CRT for the forseeable future.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#277323 - 11/03/2006 19:00
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
Sky HD installers, it goes into some detail about what the system will be supporting:
So, looking at the choice of channels, have I missed something? I get free bus travel from April 1, do the government also give a discount on HD afternoon television, it's just the same old repeats with more pixels: If only all those WW2 photographers in Stalingrad and places had been told to shoot in HD!!!!
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#277324 - 11/03/2006 19:33
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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new poster
Registered: 06/03/2006
Posts: 28
Loc: New Jersey, United States
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Thank you for mentioning the LED backlite LCDs, What I'm waiting for is OLED technology to mature enough for TV and monitor applications.
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20GB MK2 Green 080000171
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#277325 - 12/03/2006 06:34
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: Ladmo]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
And DVD's? Well you won't believe it...
Try it....you'll like it.....
I wasn't suggesting that I did most of my viewing on VHS, we keep an old one for old tapes, we have quality DVD players in 2 rooms and a superstore cheapo in a 3rd, with PC's to play them elsewhere.
I tried transcribing my complete Monty Python Collection on to hard disk, which demonstrated how poor the VHS we put up with really was!
Why is it the US has the complete Monty Python on DVD and we don't? I'm not sure I'll buy it when it comes here, by now, I want to pick out favourite sketches rather than play whole episodes, which is why I wanted to put it on hard disk. As with artists' C.D's, other people's best of selections wouldn't always be my choice.
I think most people have a DVD player, my remarks were specifically about VHS v. DVD recorders. My recordings are done on digital terrestial to 3 tuners and two slave tuners, we can therefore, in theory, record every programme on every multiplex, although I've not yet tried past nine. Over the next couple of months, I should be able to network all those tuners for greater flexibility, the software is at the beta stage at the moment.
We also have Sky+ satellite, but I'm hoping to phase it out as the terrestial is perfected, we pay a lot of money for very little use: I think satellite here is only worthwhile if you are in to sport.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#277326 - 12/03/2006 08:15
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
We also have Sky+ satellite, but I'm hoping to phase it out as the terrestial is perfected, we pay a lot of money for very little use: I think satellite here is only worthwhile if you are in to sport.
Though of course if you want HD broadcast TV in the UK (and you don't have access to cable), then Sky's HD service is going to be the only player for the foreseeable future. HD via Freeview would appear to be a very long way off.
There is also one case where radio sounds better on Sky than it does on Freeview. The World Service on Freeview is only 64kbit/s, on Sky it is at 96kbit/s (all the other BBC Radio channels use the same bitrate on Sky as on Freeview).
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#277327 - 12/03/2006 08:46
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
The World Service
I think that the nature of the service, and, particularly the way things are presented, has changed, I find little to interest me now. But then the whole world of broadcasting has changed. I used to listen extensively on SW, years ago, nowadays, I'm spread between 2, 4 & 7.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#277328 - 12/03/2006 11:58
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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For the benefit of our U.S. audience, what's this "freeview" of which you speak? Can you get content via satellite without paying a monthly fee? That would certainly be nice...
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#277329 - 12/03/2006 12:10
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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I thought that this question might arise, which is why I altered my terminology to "Digital Terrestial Television" Which is, largely, free DigiTV through an aerial, with a wide choice of Radio & TV programmes. We can also, however, and I'm not sure of the full availability get a competing free satellite service, through Sky.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#277330 - 12/03/2006 15:13
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It seems to basically be what we in the US would call broadcast TV.
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Bitt Faulk
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#277331 - 12/03/2006 15:51
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
It seems to basically be what we in the US would call broadcast TV.
Freeview is an all digital platform which utilises so called 'taboo' channels in the existing UK analogue TV spectrum.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#277332 - 12/03/2006 16:03
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
For the benefit of our U.S. audience, what's this "freeview" of which you speak? Can you get content via satellite without paying a monthly fee? That would certainly be nice...
Freeview is the UK digital terrestrial TV service, it is broadcast in the same frequency ranges as analogue broadcast TV. Using a $100 set top box and a TV aerial you can receive a range of channels without a monthly fee.
If you have the right Freeview set top box you can also pay a monthly fee to receive some extra channels.
Free TV channels
Free radio channels
Extra pay channels
The "free" satellite situation in the UK is a little more complicated. There are some channels that are "free to air" (FTA), some "free to view" (FTV) and some pay channels.
FTV channels can be received with any DVB-S receiver, for free. FTA channels are also free, but are encrypted. You can only receive FTA channels with a receiver that supports the Sky Digital VideoGuard system.
"Free" satellite TV channels
"Free" satellite radio channels
Some channels that are freely available on Freeview are FTV on satellite.
If you want to watch FTA and FTV channels then you either need use a Sky Digital receiver with a lapsed subscription, or you have to buy a viewing card for $40 from Sky.
Edit:
...and of course Wikipedia has a far better description of the situation than I managed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-air
http://www.heyrick.co.uk/ricksworld/digibox/skyfrlst.html
Edited by andy (12/03/2006 16:43)
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#277333 - 12/03/2006 17:48
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Ahh, I see. That's certainly quite a different situation from the U.S., where local channels I can receive for free over the air cost extra to receive via satellite. An amusing question is whether anything analogous to FTV/FTA will ever happen in the U.S. I imagine that mainstream cable channels like ESPN or Comedy Central would probably still make scads of money on advertising, even if they got absolutely no fees whatsoever from the cable/satellite firms.
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#277334 - 12/03/2006 17:58
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Commercial FTV/FTA is clearly a hard area to compete in. Half a dozen channels or more are taken off air each year (though a similar number take their place).
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#277335 - 12/03/2006 22:24
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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FTV/FTA exists in the US (for Satellite). There are a number of websites that track and list what you can receive and from where. Of course that's not necessarily what most people buying FTA receivers are watching. But that's neither here nor there. One issue in North America anyway, is that you may require a number of dishes or a huge dish with a number of LNBFs to receive a larger number of "channels"
Bruno
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#277336 - 12/03/2006 22:48
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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There is poor terrestrial reception where we live so we have one receiver with a Sky subscription and two others with FTV cards - I originally got the free BBC ones but just before they were to be deactivated and charged at £20 for a re-issue somebody found a flaw with the ordering system for an adult channel which triggered a replacement card to be issued without any payment required, which was most welcome. The receivers are only £30 on ebay, even for the good Pansonic boxes.
There is still a bit of a problem selling FTV/FTA satellite in the UK. Firstly there is the practical problem of installing a dish and cable, even though in many cases Freeview requires a new aerial to be installed, which isn't that cheap. Secondly satellite television still has a negative image in the UK. I'm not sure whether it is because of an association with jobless layabouts, hardcore European porn channels or just having to bolt something on the wall (though the dishes are nothing like the old 60cm monstrosities).
Gareth
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#277337 - 13/03/2006 05:19
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I resisted getting Sky for a long time, struggling on with OnDigital until it went bust. I finally caved when Sky+ came along. I have some friends who have always avoided Sky, because they don't want to give Murdock any money. Now they have moved to a house with no cable, no DAB and no Freeview. Because they are hooked on BBC7 they are now faced with finally paying our some cash to Rupert 
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#277338 - 13/03/2006 05:44
Re: Just What Does "HD Ready" Mean?
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
Because they are hooked on BBC7
I started a reply to say, I know it's not ideal, but they could always listen on the 'net, but I suppose if they haven't got any of those things, they won't have broadband!
The only thing I'd add to the explanation for our overseas friends is that our government intend cutting off the analog signal in the next six years, and hence the digital terrestial signal needs to have a substantial element of free transmission.
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