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#259089 - 27/06/2005 17:13 Bad News
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#259090 - 27/06/2005 17:42 Re: Bad News [Re: schofiel]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
A certain country's government is really beginning to get on my nerves..

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#259091 - 27/06/2005 17:43 Re: Bad News [Re: schofiel]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
The silver lining:
Quote:
One expected announcement that did not appear concerned the retirement of 80-year-old Chief Justice William Rehnquist.

Justice Rehnquist is suffering from thyroid cancer, breathes through a tracheal tube and struggled to talk during a speech closing the current court term that thanked court workers.


-Zeke

(silver lining that he didn't step down, not that he has thyroid cancer...didn't want to be misread)


Edited by Ezekiel (27/06/2005 17:46)

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#259092 - 27/06/2005 17:46 Re: Bad News [Re: Ezekiel]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Your glad he has cancer? If so you're a sick f***.

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#259093 - 27/06/2005 17:48 Re: Bad News [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
Chill, dude.

I'm happy the old Judge is still doing fine. Because once he goes, Bush gets to replace him with a crony and swing around what little balance remains in the USA legal system..

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#259094 - 27/06/2005 17:50 Re: Bad News [Re: Ezekiel]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
My apologies - misinterpreted

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#259095 - 27/06/2005 17:50 Re: Bad News [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
In record time no less! No worries.

-Zeke

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#259096 - 27/06/2005 17:51 Re: Bad News [Re: Ezekiel]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
That'll teach me not to read things properly

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#259097 - 27/06/2005 18:53 Re: Bad News [Re: schofiel]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Clearly, someone needs to sue the Federal Highway System for allowing all those kidnapped children to be taken over state lines.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#259098 - 27/06/2005 18:58 Re: Bad News [Re: wfaulk]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Or more importantly, governments the world over for providing currency used to fund, or indeed be the reason for, all manner of crimes.

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#259099 - 27/06/2005 19:08 Important quotes from the opinion [Re: schofiel]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
(I added some stuff.)

Quote:
Given these benefits in security, cost, and efficiency, peer-to-peer networks are employed to store and distribute electronic files by universities, government agencies, corporations, and libraries, among others.


Quote:
Grokster and StreamCast dispute this figure, raising methodological problems and arguing that free copying even of copyrighted works may be authorized by the rightholders. They also argue that potential noninfringing uses of their software are significant in kind, even if infrequent in practice. Some musical performers, for example, have gained new audiences by distributing their copyrighted works for free across peer-to-peer networks, and some distributors of unprotected content have used peer-to-peer networks to disseminate files, Shakespeare being an example. Indeed, StreamCast has given Morpheus users the opportunity to download the briefs in this very case, though their popularity has not been quantified.


Quote:
Grokster and StreamCast concede the infringement in most downloads,


Quote:
From time to time, moreover, the companies have learned about their users infringement directly, as from users who have sent e-mail to each company with questions about playing copyrighted movies they had downloaded, to whom the companies have responded with guidance.


Quote:
The record is replete with evidence that from the moment Grokster and StreamCast began to distribute their free software, each one clearly voiced the objective that recipients use it to download copyrighted works, and each took active steps to encourage infringement.


Quote:
Evidence indicates that [i]t was always [StreamCast's] intent to use [its OpenNap network] to be able to capture email addresses of [its] initial target market so that [it] could promote [its] StreamCast Morpheus interface to them,


Quote:
StreamCast even planned to flaunt the illegal uses of its software; when it launched the OpenNap network, the chief technology officer of the company averred that [t]he goal is to get in trouble with the law and get sued. It's the best way to get in the new[s].


Quote:
StreamCast's executives monitored the number of songs by certain commercial artists available on their networks, and an internal communication indicates they aimed to have a larger number of copyrighted songs available on their networks than other file-sharing networks. ... The point, of course, would be to attract users of a mind to infringe, just as it would be with their promotional materials developed showing copyrighted songs as examples of the kinds of files available through Morpheus. ... Morpheus in fact allowed users to search specifically for Top 40 songs, ... which were inevitably copyrighted. Similarly, Grokster sent users a newsletter promoting its ability to provide particular, popular copyrighted materials.


Quote:
Users seeking Top 40 songs, for example, or the latest release by Modest Mouse, are certain to be far more numerous than those seeking a free Decameron, and Grokster and StreamCast translated that demand into dollars.


(I just thought a Modest Mouse reference in a Supreme Court opinion was neat.)

Quote:
The mutual exclusivity of these values should not be overstated, however. On the one hand technological innovators, including those writing filesharing computer programs, may wish for effective copyright protections for their work. ... (StreamCast itself was urged by an associate to get [its] technology written down and [its intellectual property] protected. ...) On the other hand the widespread distribution of creative works through improved technologies may enable the synthesis of new works or generate audiences for emerging artists.


Quote:
One infringes contributorily by intentionally inducing or encouraging direct infringement, see Gershwin Pub. Corp. v. Columbia Artists Management, Inc., 443 F. 2d 1159, 1162 (CA2 1971), and infringes vicariously by profiting from direct infringement while declining to exercise a right to stop or limit it, Shapiro, Bernstein & Co. v. H. L. Green Co., 316 F. 2d 304, 307 (CA2 1963).


In re: time-shifting Sony case:
Quote:
There was no evidence that Sony had expressed an object of bringing about taping in violation of copyright or had taken active steps to increase its profits from unlawful taping. ... Although Sony's advertisements urged consumers to buy the VCR to record favorite shows or build a library of recorded programs ..., neither of these uses was necessarily infringing ....


Anyway, it looks like they're pretty explicit throughout that the problem is with hte peer-to-peer implementers' stated intent. It doesn't even seem to come down to something as hairy as implication in most cases. And it is explicitly not a ruling against P2P at all. They comment on its potential legal uses frequently. This is just a ruling against a pair of companies whose intent was to distribute copyrighted material.


Edited by wfaulk (27/06/2005 19:51)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#259100 - 27/06/2005 20:08 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: wfaulk]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
The blogosphere is lighting up with comment on the Grokster case as well. There's a particularly interesting thread at ScotusBlog (although, every time I hear the Supreme Court refered to as Scotus, I start thinking about Locutus of the Borg). As best I understand it, the tech community is grasping at straws and reading tea leaves to understand the court's decision. The RIAA/MPAA crowd is taking this as a green light to sue lots of people. One interesting example is if they try to, somehow, go after BitTorrent, e.g., by going after Bram Cohen and the other dev groups that make compatible products. That will truly set up a test case where the defense will claim a "substantial noninfringing use" (i.e., the Sony defense). Before they get there, though, you can expect plenty of other lawsuits against defendants who don't look as good in court.

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#259101 - 27/06/2005 20:27 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: DWallach]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Part of the opinion was that Grokster/Morpheus made no attempt to prevent infringement. I don't see any way that the BitTorrent software authors could prevent infringement. I can see them going after the various Torrent sites -- they're probably more liable than the Grokster/Morpheus folks, as they intentionally place links to copyrighted software -- but not the authors of the software.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#259102 - 27/06/2005 23:34 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: wfaulk]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Ahh, while everything you say is plainly true, that won't stop the RIAA/MPAA folks from the attempt. They started with easy targets, the torrent sites, and they'll build their way up if they can.

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#259103 - 28/06/2005 00:08 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: DWallach]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14483
Loc: Canada
Yup. Each case distorts the wording ever so slightly, so that in the end they can imprison each and every one of you (and eventually the rest of us, too), if they choose.

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#259104 - 28/06/2005 01:17 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: DWallach]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
going after Bram Cohen and the other dev groups

Isn't it great how governments love progress... only when it benefits them.

Wow, way to cynical tonight. Guess I should just pay my bills like a good American indentured servant and go to bed.
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#259105 - 28/06/2005 09:59 Re: Bad News [Re: schofiel]
Ladmo
addict

Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 524
Loc: Oklahoma
I wonder who is going to sue Microsoft when some terriost uses their software to distribute their beheading videos via the internet, or who is going to sue the liberals hero, Al Gore, for inventing the internet, as he stated he did that makes all this litigation crap possible. Or printers for printing ransom notes, or...yep, you know where this is going...to the gun manifactures for making firearms....or who will sue God, bec ause I still believe that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Man! You can take this last court thing pretty far....
But after all, you can thank Sandra Day oConner for a lot of the swing votes....you talk about ballance? You mean there was ballance under Jimmy Carter? BillyBob Clinton? Heck even Kennedy was trying to go to war (remember Bay of Pigs?) Sheesh! Too early to get the blood pressure up...
_________________________
The only easy day...was yesterday!

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#259106 - 28/06/2005 16:57 Re: Bad News [Re: Ladmo]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Al Gore, for inventing the internet


Snopes on Gore and the Internet

And, for reference, I'm a big fat lefty, and he's certainly not my hero. He's way too conservative, although somewhat less so recently.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#259107 - 30/06/2005 01:04 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: DWallach]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
every time I hear the Supreme Court refered to as Scotus, I start thinking about Locutus of the Borg

Every time I hear it called Scotus, I seem to conflate it with scrotum.

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#259108 - 30/06/2005 14:02 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: canuckInOR]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31573
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well, they're both wrinkly.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#259109 - 30/06/2005 14:54 Re: Important quotes from the opinion [Re: tfabris]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
I'm sooooo lucky not to have been drinking anything.

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