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#285447 - 14/08/2006 17:07 Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread)
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
I figure this is likely good enough to spinoff here.

Quote:
Apparently there has been 'documented 339 cases of lithium and lithium-ion batteries for portable electronics overheating, emitting smoke and fumes or exploding since 2003'. On top of that, the FAA has documented 60 incidents since 1991.


I'm debating if the problem is really increasing faster then the adoption rate of lithium ion, or if this is just due to the increased presence of these devices everywhere. Laptops exploding are in the news quite a bit these days, and my own MacBook Pro just had a battery recall issued. On Twit, Dvorak has theorized the increase in incidents is due to shoddy battery cells being sold in China and integrated into many laptop batteries. Should things like this be a reason for US manufacturers to pull battery production out of China?

Also, for my own curiosity, is there any measurable increase in problems between lithium ion and the older nickel based batteries?

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#285448 - 14/08/2006 19:30 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: drakino]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
Yes. Lithium is an alkali metal like sodium.

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#285449 - 14/08/2006 20:03 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: Mataglap]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Is it the same form as the lithium powder/shaving/solid that explodes when you add water like in highschool chemistry? (Ok we didn't get to use lithium but sodium was the same idea!)

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#285450 - 15/08/2006 02:42 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: Mataglap]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
I'm aware of why lithium causes such a reaction in some situations, just not why it seems to be a huge concern recently for laptop batteries.

Dell just expanded their recall to cover over 4 million batteries shipped. More info at their site: http://dellbatteryprogram.com/ . This includes a few models I believe other empeg owners have, including Mark. My 9100 is not affected by this one.

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#285451 - 15/08/2006 03:53 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: drakino]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
Yep, it's the same lithium. while it's not as reactive as sodium, there's a great deal of chemical similarity.

The fluid in lithium cells is frequently inflammable; lithium has a very high energy density and can release energy quickly if not controlled; lithium batteries have a very specific charging pattern; the battery has a whole is much more vulnerable to heat than nickel-based batteries; and as it discharges it lets off heat. The normal operating conditions aren't unreasonable, but it's not hard to manipulate a Li battery into a state outside them.

For lots of small reasons that taken together, the tolerances for components and manufacturing are not as forgiving, and the overall quality of the battery is caught between the cheapest price and the minimum requirements of the vendor.

One possible failure scenerio is that the battery is cheaply made, and leaks. The ventilation around the battery is adequate but not excessive. The heat from the charging or discharging is enough to ignite the fluid. The heat from the combustion just makes things worse.

Stuff like that.

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#285452 - 15/08/2006 10:33 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12320
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
Dell just expanded their recall to cover over 4 million batteries shipped.

And since the batteries were contracted to Sony (I believe), it may eventually affect Sony laptops among others. I hope Lenovos don't also get their batteries from the same source...
_________________________
Matt

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#285453 - 16/08/2006 11:42 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: drakino]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1523
Loc: Arizona
There is an article in the Toronto Star today about laptop batteries on planes.

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#285454 - 16/08/2006 13:02 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: drakino]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
baseline informatik:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery

Now I know more about Li-Ion batteries!
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#285455 - 16/08/2006 14:17 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: Tim]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
There is an article in the Toronto Star today about laptop batteries on planes.


What about Snakes on a plane
(worst movie title ever - and sorry for the tangent)
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...

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#285456 - 16/08/2006 14:51 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: furtive]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1523
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
Quote:
There is an article in the Toronto Star today about laptop batteries on planes.


What about Snakes on a plane
(worst movie title ever - and sorry for the tangent)


Whats funny is there was an article in the Wall Street Journal today that talks about Africanized Bees hampering ramp operations at some airports in the southwest. Here is a snippit of the article:

Quote:
"Snakes on a Plane" may be the hot horror movie of the summer, but bees on planes are creating the most buzz in some aviation circles. Africanized honey bees -- the infamous "killer bees" -- are increasingly making unscheduled layovers at airports across the Southwest.


All I could think of while reading that article was Samuel Jackson saying "...mother ****ing bees on the mother ****ing plane!".

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#285457 - 16/08/2006 15:00 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: Tim]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
All I could think of while reading that article was Samuel Jackson saying "...mother ****ing bees on the mother ****ing plane!".

Same here, though fortunately mother****ing bees, like mother****ing snakes for that matter, are hetero-****ing-thermic and would soon become sleepy in the cold environment inside a plane in flight.

Peter

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#285458 - 24/08/2006 16:37 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: peter]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
_________________________
-Michael

#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons

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#285459 - 24/08/2006 17:01 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: Waterman981]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
Apple's turn


I've already returned a battery about a year ago. Hopefully my new one isn't affected.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#285460 - 25/08/2006 15:45 Re: Dangers of laptop batteries (from the UK Flight thread) [Re: andym]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
Wired has an article titled When Lithium-Ion Batteries Go Bad

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