Ok, I KNOW there is this info out there somewhere, but I can't find it. I've looked in the FAQ, searched the FAQ, searched the forums, looked at all the sites in the Links section, opened up all the zip files in the download section, looked in the FAQ again, went to each of the software addon homepages, looked a last time in the FAQ and performed voodoo rituals seeking knowledge, and I still can't find the page which tells you how to add new software to the player. Where is it? I know it's out there!

Ben

Uh, what info???

If it's the meaning of life, well can't help you there.

Umm. There isn't any standardised way of adding third party software to the empeg at the moment.

You basically have to transfer the necessary files using the Hijack FTP server or via ZModem using the serial port. Then unfortunately have to follow the instructions for each individual program that you want to install.

That's about it really...

What piece of software did you have in mind? A player upgrade? The Hijack kernel? A third party application?

I still can't find the page which tells you how to add new software to the player.

As was said elsewhere in this thread, you need to clarify your statement. You say "add new software", but you don't specify what kind of software. There are a few possible things you could mean, I'll link the FAQ entries for each one:



If by "new software", you mean, upgrade the player firmware to the latest official version, the FAQ entry is:

How do I upgrade the firmware on the player, and will it erase my music files?

Note that this FAQ entry could have been located by doing a search on "upgrade software" or on "upgrade firmware".



If by "new software", you mean upgrade the kernel with the third party Hijack replacement kernel, then the FAQ entry is:

How do I put custom logos or kernels into the player?



If by "new software", you mean install third party software such as GPSapp or Emphatic, you must follow the instructions given by the people who made that software. Because each third party software package is different, they all have different installation instructions.

If the persons who wrote the third-party software do not give you enough information to install it, then you need to talk to them directly and ask them to please update their instructions to be more clear.

Ok, say I want to put on Emptriv. "follow the instructions for each individual program".... it's those instructions I'm after.... where are they?

Ben

"follow the instructions for each individual program".... it's those instructions I'm after.... where are they?

The instructions should be included inside the emptriv archive file that you downloaded, most likely in a file named "readme" or "install" or something like that. If not, then complain to the author of the program.

The instructions should be included inside the emptriv archive file that you downloaded, most likely in a file named "readme" or "install" or something like that. If not, then complain to the author of the program.

emptriv was the first app I wrote, and as such, never contained a README. It was really an alpha release that I wanted only "power users" to be using, though once it got more usable, I did answer installation questions on the BBS.

Blipman, take a look at this post. This explains, in pretty coarse terms, what it takes to install emptriv. The one change that's happened since I wrote it is that the step where I say "you need to run the binary" has been simplified due to Hijack's ;@EXEC function. You should be able to add a line like this:

;@EXEC /drive0/emptriv/emptriv

to do this (depending on where you extract the emptriv archive to.)

We as 3rd party empeg developers aren't trying to be elitist by not providing a painless install procedure -- we just haven't developed a painless procedure yet. emphatic, which is the app I've worked on much more recently than emptriv, has a somewhat automated install, but it's not without its problems either. emptriv is the hardest install... It's certainly not the one I'd pick first to try out if I weren't already very familiar with Linux.

We as 3rd party empeg developers aren't trying to be elitist by not providing a painless install procedure -- we just haven't developed a painless procedure yet.

While I agree that there is not a painless procedure yet, I think it's the responsibility of the developers to include complete installation instructions, regardless of the level of pain involved.

For instance, I think the instructions should tell them exactly what to type at each step, even down to telling them how to set the drives read-only and read-write, how to CHMOD the files, and exactly what reservecache= setting needs to go in their config.ini.

I agree that none of that stuff is painless, but I think those instructions should still be included with the product.

While I agree that there is not a painless procedure yet, I think it's the responsibility of the developers to include complete installation instructions, regardless of the level of pain involved.

Responsibility is a bit of a strong word given that those of us who write empeg apps (yourself included) do it on their own time and dime. I agree that it's a lot more fair to give novice users a full install process, but at the time I wrote emptriv, I was really hoping to just get input from "power users" who had already been doing some hacking. I figured anyone who really wanted emptriv installed could figure it out.

Eventually, johnmcd3 ended up writing some instructions on the basic steps (a thread called "Emptriv Install" found quite easily via a search of the programming forum for "emptriv install") and those seemed to get everyone by. I did end up helping a few people via email and this BBS, which I'm always happy to do. So I think I'm fulfilling and exceeding any "responsibility" I have.

Besides, emptriv isn't really ready for prime time, it eats way too much memory, uses a clunky interface, etc. It's fun to play, but not where I wanted it to be, so I didn't write docs. That's how I operate. If you'll notice, emphatic has a pretty good README and even an install script that works for most people (the editing of config.ini is still obviously a manual step.) When I released emphatic, I felt much better about it being a real release quality app, and as such, I wrote good docs.

Anyway I do plan on porting emptriv to use vfdlib at some point (instead of my own homegrown fonts and the GD graphics libs) but it's not at the top of my list. In the mean time, I'm happy to answer any specific questions about installation beyond what's already been documented on the forums.

If you'll notice, emphatic has a pretty good README and even an install script that works for most people

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply anything personal against you. I see that's what seems to have happened. I'm sorry.

My point was just to espouse a general philosophy: If one is going to write software, it's important that one provides installation instructions.

->tfabris
I wasn't really taking it personally, just trying to illustrate that there's a method to my madness. Alpha/beta quality releases have little or no documentation, quality releases get quality docs. Also, at the time emptriv was written, Hijack's ;@EXEC stuff wasn't around, and the process for auto-executing things at startup was limited to using Frank's modified init binary, which was a real bear to install. Things are easier now, but we're still not where we should be, I'm afraid.

->Blipman
For now, here's an approximate install process. Let me know if this doesn't work. You need the Hijack kernel installed, and need to have "vi" on your system and be familiar with how to use it.

Start out with johnmcd3's instructions but stop after executing step 5. Then do the following from a shell prompt:
rw
rwm
vi /empeg/var/config.ini

At this point you'll be in vi, and you should search for the [hijack] section, and add this:

;@EXEC_ONCE /drive0/files/emptriv

If you used a different path than "/drive0/files/" during the install, use that instead.

Save the file in vi, then do:
rom
ro

To mount the drives read-only. When you reboot, emptriv should be available in your Hijack menu. If something goes wrong, let me know.

I realize that vi may (or may not) be the One True Editor, but most people are probably better of using (j)emplode to edit their config.ini.

Emptriv is one of the few programs I havn't tried out, perhaps I'll try sticking it on this weekend.

Matthe

OK, but I thought emplode's config.ini editor required some magic registry key to be set before it was available. Maybe they changed that.

Sorry for the break in time, but now ready to get back into it.

Ok, so I've had a look at the info provided by the Tonies (?), however two problems arise:

1) The rwm (or is it site rwm) commands are unrecognized. is there a path issue?

2) I had a snoop around and looked at the config.ini file, there is no [hijac] section (I DO have Hijack installed) and also the syntax of the EXEC command you mentioned looks nothing like anything else in that file. Also, I don't know how to install vi (at least I know how to use it, otherwise that would have been painful) so is it ok to download the ini file, edit it and then upload again? (when I'm able to do so).

I plan to document the whole process step by step for the FAQ or readme file with emptriv, will this process be generic or only applicable to emptriv?

Ben

There are instructions around somewhere on the board to get the "ae" going (sort-of-ish emacs like). I'll recap here.
The ae binary is attached to this post (place into suitable bin directory and chmod 755 or so), and the /etc/ae.rc file is attached to this one (Goes into /etc as the name says). The link to the libslang library I had in this post doesn't work (Frank's web site seems to have gone missing), but I've attached it to this post (zip'ed).
Just put it in /lib . But since ae looks for libslang.so.1 and you got the ..so.1.3.9 file, you need to either rename it or create a symlink in /lib, like this:
ln -s /lib/libslang.so.1.3.9 /lib/libslang.so.1

Yes, you can download - edit - reupload the file, as long as you use an editor that is capable of saving in Unix format (ie linefeed as line separator, in Windows for instance Ultra Edit)

/Michael

1) The rwm (or is it site rwm) commands are unrecognized. is there a path issue?

The command rwm should only be available at the shell prompt, which is only available if you are connected via Hyperterminal.

There is no site rwm command, so it's no wonder it was unrecognized. There is a site rw command available through the Hijack FTP server, which is a completely different thing.

I had a snoop around and looked at the config.ini file, there is no [hijac] section (I DO have Hijack installed)

There wouldn't be. First of all, you spelled it wrong, and second of all, it's not there unless you add it yourself by hand.

and also the syntax of the EXEC command you mentioned looks nothing like anything else in that file.

Yes, it's that way deliberately. I forget all of the reasons it's that way, but there were reasons for each decision in the syntax.