#304453 - 27/11/2007 02:11
G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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i inherited a 1.6GHz Power Mac G5 and decided to make use of it as a server of sorts. Home network file serving, light FTP, nothing too crazy.
I received the machine as bone stock as the day it was born. 1.6GHz single-cpu, 256MB RAM, 80GB hard drive, and OS X 10.3.9. My brother's data was still on the 80GB original hard drive, so I simply replaced it with a Western Digital 750GB SATA drive. While I was at it, I also swapped the two 128MB memory modules for a couple 1GB sticks and upgraded the "SuperDrive."
The new 750GB was christened with a new install of Leopard and that's where things went south. Any amount of normal use will eventually result in the mouse/video freezing. If the computer is sitting serving files, it can seemingly run forever. Once I start doing something like web browsing on it, the computer will always crash to the point I have to hold the power button to shut it down.
At first I thought Firefox 2.0.0.9 was to blame, but then it froze while working in Safari and once while transitioning from one Spaces desktop to another.
My initial though was that I have bad RAM. However, I was transferring data from a USB hard drive during one of the freezes and, although the screen was stuck, the transfer seemed to still be going along fine. Could it be the video card is somehow to blame? It's the stock 64MB nVidia model that seem to work fine in the older OS.
This is my first major leap into Apple computing, so I have to admit I'm a little clumsy when it comes to moving around the OS. I can't really find anything that can diagnose my problem. Are there any utilities available in the OS, or something I can download? Any known compatibility issues with something I've installed? Should I attempt to reinstall the OS? Any ideas?
Thanks.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304454 - 27/11/2007 02:59
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Since it may still be alive when the GUI freezes, enabling SSH and logging into it remotely will be one of the quicker ways to find out what is going on. To do so, open System Preferences, go to Sharing, and check Remote Login.
Next time it does this, ssh in, and try to do "sudo dmesg" to get the kernel log. The last lines may reveal something useful. You can also do "ps aux" to list all running processes, and try to find if something is hung. Once rebooted, in the Utilities folder is an application called Console. You can use that to look at system logs, and see if anything relevant is being saved out to the logs on disk.
Also, if you want to give the hardware a test, the system should have a set of restore discs. Put in the first one (if there are multiples), and reboot holding the alt/option key. A boot menu should appear, and one of the options should be a hardware test.
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#304455 - 27/11/2007 12:10
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I'm going to induce a freeze when I get home later (about 12 hours from now), so don't think I'm ignoring this suggestion. I will post the results here.
I also want to say that I find it annoying that Apple Remote Desktop appears to be VNC-based, but you can't access it with a generic VNC client. Some say that OSXvnc is buggy, but it seem like the most popular option. Does anyone use that or know of a way to use ARD with a standard VNC viewer?
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304456 - 27/11/2007 13:01
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've got a bunch of headless G5 Xserves and originally I had to run OSXvnc, it's not too bad. We then bought a copy of ARD to use and after upgrading the ARD servers to version 3 the VNC problems went away so we removed OSXvnc and just used ordinary ARD/VNC. One word of warning though, I've found the VNC server to be rather flakey requiring a login over ssh to manually restart the process.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#304457 - 27/11/2007 13:08
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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After reading a bit, it seems like OS X 10.5 allows VNC viewers to connect by ticking an option in the ARD config. I will have to take a look later. Apparently this is a new feature.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304458 - 27/11/2007 13:13
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Nope, it's been that way for ages. Like Andy said, though, it's flaky. Maybe it's been fixed. I haven't updated my OS recently.
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Bitt Faulk
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#304459 - 27/11/2007 16:16
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote: My initial though was that I have bad RAM. However, I was transferring data from a USB hard drive during one of the freezes and, although the screen was stuck, the transfer seemed to still be going along fine.
Still doesn't rule out bad RAM.
Definitely do that hardware test.
Anyone: Is there an equivalent of MEMTEST86 for the mac? I seem to recall that the hardware test that comes on the system disks doesn't exercise the RAM as much as Memtest does.
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#304460 - 27/11/2007 16:20
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I have no experience with it, but Memtest OS X showed up in a quick Google.
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Bitt Faulk
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#304461 - 27/11/2007 17:32
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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rember, it diagnosed a faulty memory module in my old iBook.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#304462 - 28/11/2007 00:30
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I got it to freeze while logged in via SSH. The session died and my constant pinging was no longer being answered. So, it's probably not a video problem. I'm running rember now, but I have no idea how long one pass will take.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304463 - 28/11/2007 01:35
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Machine froze during the first pass of rember. That could be telling. I didn't have the log screen up when it froze, so I don't know what might have happened. Running again now.
UPDATE: It froze during the 2nd test. I let the machine sit there with the frozen screen for a while. After about 2 minutes, the fans started ramping-up speed. I shut it down and will be investigating my memory options tomorrow. Good night.
Edited by robricc (28/11/2007 02:37)
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304464 - 28/11/2007 05:02
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote: After about 2 minutes, the fans started ramping-up speed.
Also wouldn't rule out overheating just yet. Could be worth trying the test again with the case open if you have time. Check see whether all the fans are spinning properly, heatsinks mounted firmly and not covered in dust.
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#304465 - 28/11/2007 12:15
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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That crossed my mind, but the fans don't spin at an accelerated rate before the computer crashes. I ran the machine with the side panel off for a bit earlier in the week (leaving the plastic air guide/shield in place). All fans were spinning nicely. I need to get the G5 up and running since I sold my Windows RAID server over the weekend. Throwing more memory at it seems like my best option right now. Since it's just DDR, there are a lot of other places it can be used if it turns out the memory in the machine is fine. The good news is that the VNC server built in to 10.5 appears to work nicely.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304466 - 28/11/2007 12:40
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote: Since it's just DDR, there are a lot of other places it can be used if it turns out the memory in the machine is fine.
Since it's just DDR, can you stick it in another machine and run a memory test in that? For example, put it in a PC and use memtest86?
That'll definitely tell you whether it's the RAM that's bad, or something else.
One tip when using a memory tester is to exercise the RAM a bit first -- I usually use Prime95 with large data sets. If the RAM is cold, it might not fail.
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-- roger
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#304467 - 28/11/2007 12:49
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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That's a good idea. I don't have a computer at home with a 184-pin DDR slot, so I will have to snag something from work.
I already ordered memory, so the test won't save me that expense. But, it should be interesting to see the results and let me know which stick to return.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304468 - 28/11/2007 12:51
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I wonder why nobody makes a motherboard with memtest86 or equiv in flash. We're already getting things like web browsers and DVD players built in...
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#304469 - 28/11/2007 13:29
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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We are?
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Bitt Faulk
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#304470 - 28/11/2007 13:40
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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#304471 - 28/11/2007 16:44
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Quote: After about 2 minutes, the fans started ramping-up speed.
Also wouldn't rule out overheating just yet. Could be worth trying the test again with the case open if you have time. Check see whether all the fans are spinning properly, heatsinks mounted firmly and not covered in dust.
Fans ramping up speed would indicate a kernel panic, certainly in the xserves I have. There was nasty bug we had that caused a kernel panic on both the main and backup metadata controllers every time we created a directory on an Xsan volume over NFS. Much hilarity was had by all when this happened 5 minutes before a news bulletin....
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#304472 - 03/12/2007 16:37
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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If you have a second mac around, 2 kernel debugging may be your friend, if the machine really is panicing.
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#304473 - 03/12/2007 20:06
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote: We are?
Asus P5E3 Deluxe
Yeah, I have that (memtest in BIOS) here on an ASUS P5B-VM mobo as well.
Cheers
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#304474 - 03/12/2007 20:16
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Cool. I have that same motherboard for my Myth box. I never noticed the memtest feature.
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~ John
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#304475 - 03/12/2007 22:29
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote: Cool. I have that same motherboard for my Myth box. I never noticed the memtest feature.
Did you manage to get the optical sound output to work? (requires a dongle)
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#304476 - 03/12/2007 22:34
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote: We are?
Asus P5E3 Deluxe
Yeah, I have that (memtest in BIOS) here on an ASUS P5B-VM mobo as well.
Oh, waitaminute.. it doesn't have that feature (just looked for it again now). I could have sworn.. but something around here has it, I wonder which ?
(too many boxes)
Cheers
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#304477 - 04/12/2007 00:13
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I do have another Mac here, but I already reloaded OS X on the G5 and it seems to be working fine now. I'm still not sure what went wrong.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304478 - 04/12/2007 12:44
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote: Did you manage to get the optical sound output to work?
I never tried. I've had to get rid of my surround sound setup and go back to stereo with a sub for various reasons. I mostly got the board for the onboard DVI and the location of the PCI Slot for use with a riser card.
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~ John
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#304479 - 05/12/2007 12:35
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I'm sorry if nobody cares, but the G5 froze again last night after running for a couple days without an issue. Somehow, through much googleing, I came across this info. I know I looked for firmware updates for this thing, but I was only able to find updates pertaining to the 1.8GHz G5 through Apple's search engine. I will load this firmware tonight, but I don't know why that couldn't have been done automatically. Since there are so few possible Apple configurations relative to a PC, couldn't the OS automatically update the firmware without much trouble? Abit motherboards can do this from within Windows. I'm seeing posts on forums from a while ago about Logitech mice freezing OS X. I assume this is only if using the Logitech software. Does anyone have more info on this? I have a Logitech mouse hooked up, but I'm not using any driver other than what's built in to OS X. I have an Apple Pro Mouse around, but that is the worst mouse I have ever used. I can imagine the original iMac puck is worse, but I've never even touched one. I also have a D-Link USB Bluetooth dongle hooked up that I'm wary of. If the firmware doesn't help, I'll have to start auditing all my hardware or maybe downgrade to Tiger.
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#304480 - 05/12/2007 12:51
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Wasn't there a problem with some Macs around the G5 time because of bad caps?
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#304481 - 05/12/2007 12:58
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote: I'm seeing posts on forums from a while ago about Logitech mice freezing OS X. I assume this is only if using the Logitech software. Does anyone have more info on this? I have a Logitech mouse hooked up, but I'm not using any driver other than what's built in to OS X.
Its the Logitech software that causes the odd problems in Leopard. It used an old version of Application Enhancer as part of its control panel software which really screws up your Mac. If you want something reliable then don't use APE...
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#304482 - 05/12/2007 13:44
Re: G5 freezing in OS X 10.5
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I'm not using Logitech software. No third-party drivers are loaded for any hardware, and the OS install is fresh (not an upgrade).
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-Rob Riccardelli 80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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