Well, at the risk of being branded a heretic and burned at the stake, I have to comment on the iriver ihp-120 and their nested playlists. I actually picked up one of these mp3 players and have had about 24 hours to tool around with it. They have really solid nested playlists navigation. You can either search by ID3 tag, or you can essentially search the device as you would search a hard drive, navigating through various levels of directories and subdirectories. Transferring files is a snap as well. The iriver basically shows up as a removable hard drive and you can simply drag and drop your music files where you want them to be. Sound quality is very solid. Navigating is easy, and the in-line remote is very convenient. The iriver has an FM tuner, allows for recording voice through a built in microphone or included lapelle microphone. While the overall size of the device is smaller, it has a bit of a larger footprint due to its increased length (compensated for by decreased thickness compared to karma). In any case, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here who has purchased the Karma, I think the Karma is a great player, but for those waiting in the wings, checking out the iriver is worthwhile. I think the iriver behaves a whole lot more like my empeg in file transfer and navigation than the karma does.