The BBS is at least as fast as it used to be.

Rob

Yup, I liked and miss the counts/titles very much, thanks.

Put 'em back up . They're part of what helps make us feel like we belong, a rather intangible bit of sticky paste that kept this (formerly?) close-knit community together.

I have noticed an improvement in speed.

They're part of what helps make us feel like we belong, a rather intangible bit of sticky paste that kept this (formerly?) close-knit community together.

I have precisely the opposite opinion.

When you're in a room with many close friends, it should not be necessary to wear name tags which denote an arbitrary and meaningless caste ranking. To do so is to add an additional distraction to what should otherwise be a normal relationship. It opens the opportunity for jealousy or envy in some people, or at the very least, hurt feelings.

No, we only feel that way towards Moderators.

Tony, I think you're taking a negative view of this. What evidence do you have that this is the problem our community faces? I've been here for over two years now, and I haven't seen the "ranks" and post counts be much of a problem. I've gone from a newbie to an old hand, and none of the time was I thinking that I had to reach the next step, nor was I jealous of someone like you, who's had more posts than the ranks counted for since I've been here!

I don't think they give us some sense of belonging. I do see how they can do what you are saying, Tony, but the point is that they weren't doing that. I thought they were nice secondary titles to show a little more info about someone. I guess that's all.

I've been here for over two years now, and I haven't seen the "ranks" and post counts be much of a problem.

I have seen numerous threads where people discussed their post counts and ranking, deliberately posted frivolous messages just to push them into the next rank, etc. I even think there have been threads with titles like "increasing my post count", or "yay I made it to journeyman". Considering how long you've been here, I can't believe you haven't seen these threads.

The worst example -- and I have seen this literally happening right before my eyes once and it really pissed me off -- is users who sit there and post/delete post/delete post/delete very quickly. The deletions do not detract from your post count, so this was one way to artificially increase your rank. The user I witnessed doing this in realtime got a single private message: "KNOCK IT OFF", and they did. But how many have done it when I wasn't watching?

This is terribly counterproductive and it is a distraction from the basic function of this BBS. I can envision other BBS's where it might be a fun and useful feature, but I don't think it does us any good.

The "I just made journeyman!" threads prove that people take pride in the titles.. I do agree that getting post counts up for post counts' sake is crap.

Either way, I support whatever decision. I just visit.

Ok, it seems we can't figure this out with words, so let's let the numbers do the talking :

I say put up a vote. I liked the titles too and think you guys are being way overconcerned about their meanings. It was good to know who's been around a while and who's more likely to know their stuff.

Blech, this board has gotted way TOO community oriented lately if you ask me. We aren't running a town here folks, it's just a message board.

you guys are being way overconcerned about their meanings.

I'm personally not concerned with the meanings of the titles. I'm only concerned with the observed behavior they cause in the BBS clientele. And, in practice, they have caused negative and counterproductive behavior in the BBS clientele.

Hmmm. Poll broken for anyone else?

Paul!!!

ya i think they should be back up, like when i was a newbie a few months back, the first perdon i saw was tony and the amount of post that he had, and i knew that was the guy to bug for things. From what i recall we generally never look down on a newbie, we just end up sending him to the FAQ.In other words i think you should put them back up or im going to organize a bb strike between me and some of the other members :-P jus kidding

The poll works fine for me.

Tony, yes I have seen those threads/posts, but they didn't concern me. Given the number of posts on the board, someone's little post about their title doesn't concern me. Plus, a lot of people would do that inside a regular post to a normal thread.

I also agree that the artificial post increases are stupid things to do, but they don't bother me directly.

I still think you're making way too much of the titles and counts, and the fact remains that a big part of the board was changed based on the decision of a few. I just thought that was weird.

From what i recall we generally never look down on a newbie, we just end up sending him to the FAQ.

And how much trouble do you have telling the newbies from the veterans, even without the rankings? I know I certainly don't need a post-count to tell who's a newbie. I just need to read the text of the post.

Using the post counts to determine expertise is like trying to determine who's the most intelligent person at a party by measuring who talks the loudest.

I clearly fall into that latter category. I sure talk a lot, and loudly, but a lot of what I spout is BS, in case you haven't noticed.

Some of the most interesting and intelligent discussions on this BBS have been by people with very low post counts.

This is terribly counterproductive and it is a distraction from the basic function of this BBS. I can envision other BBS's where it might be a fun and useful feature, but I don't think it does us any good.

Agreed. Aside from knowing who moderator/admins are, the rest just seems like a distraction. I mean, it's mildly amusing in some ways, but I just don't feel like I'm missing anything with it gone. The "I made X" posts didn't seem like they added much and if folks are looking to those labels to help them figure out who on the BBS is really, really smart, well, that's the wrong approach. Good grief! *I* made "Old Hand". that should say something!

I don't frequent many other BBSes, but can say that the few I've seen where the notion of "post whores" are borne out are nowhere near as interesting as this one. They can be downright garbagey (new adjective?)

Tony, Tom and others have put a lot of time and effort into this BBS. Even if I missed titles a decent bit, I think this is maybe a case where I'd let the folks with red and green names do what they see fit.

..and there I was thinking they were just a bit of fun!

Rob

Honestly, I'm having a hard time trying to express why I think we should keep the titles and post counts.

I don't think they're a good measure of people's intelligence or helpfulness. Hell, I had over 1500 posts and look at me!

I don't think they make us feel like we belong more or whatever was said earlier.

I also understand all of what Tony is saying except that I think our board has significantly less of what he thinks is caused by the titles and counts.

So why am I upset that they were taken away? personally, they're rather frivolous, I suppose. For one, you have to admit, it looks quite empty over there. If it weren't for avatars, it would be boring as hell. *edit* I can't imagine what it must look like for people who don't show the avatars *edit* The other is as I said already, I liked showing people how involved the company was in helping people with their product. I would be like "okay I'm going to sort the user lists by post count. see the second and third most posts? they work for empeg!" That wowed a lot of people!

Lastly, as I keep saying, I was a little suprised by the sudden decision made by very few people. I agree with you, Jim. I think it's great how much time they put into the board, but it was a tad unsettling that they made a big change like that.

Oh well. I guess it won't be coming back anyway. Can we just request that in the future we'll be informed of what some of your plans are? Then again, that's a little like the Mark 2 faceplate design announcement, if you know what I mean... argh. whatever.

Can we at least think of something we might add to that boring cell now that the info is gone?

well either way im heading over to the wish board to make a wish, hint hint.

I think this is maybe a case where I'd let the folks with red and green names do what they see fit.

There is even some division among the reds and greens. Rob likes the rankings.

I do have another comment to add on this topic...

Everyone says "I like the rankings, bring them back", but besides just "liking" them, can anyone give any sort of a reason that the rankings are genuinely useful and serve an important function that outweighs their drawbacks?


I see the following advantages:

- Can tell who posts the most, which is a vague indicator as to whether or not they might remotely know what they are talking about. However, this can be inferred from the way that they "speak" and the information they supply more reliably than the postcount.

- Can tell who posts the least, which is a vague indicator as to whether or not they are a newbie. However, this can also be inferred from the text.

- Is mildly amusing.


However, I see the following disadvantages, which I think outweigh the advantages:

- Causes some people to attempt to increase their postcount artificially, which is annoying and misleading.

- Causes the signal-to-noise ratio on the BBS to decrease because of the postcount-increaser messages.

- Resulted in at least one creation of an auto-posting "bot" which was a serious problem.

- Has made some people feel inferior and desire to not be known as a "newbie" (this was expressed specifically in some posts).

I'd like country of origin if people want to share that... I love that we have owners spread across the globe. Also, many car sites allow for "type of car" and "color".. how about "type and quantity of empeg's" and "lens color" or "owner since DD/MM/YY" ? Just tossing ideas out there, not really voting for one or another..

I always liked how Bruno had the Canadian flag in his avatar...

- Resulted in at least one creation of an auto-posting "bot" which was a serious problem.

Wow! Missed that one. How many bots have we had, other than the statistics one?

Lastly, as I keep saying, I was a little suprised by the sudden decision made by very few people. I agree with you, Jim. I think it's great how much time they put into the board, but it was a tad unsettling that they made a big change like that.

This actually wasn't intentional. I had expected the move to occur a week or two down the road, so I played with the code Paul had sent to test it out. I discussed the idea with Tony, and had played with it on the test site. The next morning, Paul decided to do the move, and we did it. Complete with the code that has the titles hidden. There wasn't a chance to discuss it fully, and I decided to just keep it there for now, expecting a thread like this to start.

I'm really split over what to do on this. I realise the importance of the community voice. It's why RioCar.Org exists, and so many other things. On the other hand, I am now directly responsible for keeping the BBS alive on a technical side. If people post and delete, it unnecessarly stresses the database and creates preformance issues. I am not opposed to putting something else over on the side of each post, since right now it wouldn't impact preformance. Maybe the registered on date, or one of the extra profile fields (theres one more left after I added AIM, MSN and Yahoo fields).

If someone is going to get banned for a 5 post bot, why not at least a 2 day suspension from posting for posting/deleting etc...

Many BBS's have a max posts per time fame limit too..

I just wanted to add that I don't care one way or another about the titles... country of origin sounds pretty cool though.

oh, and POSTCOUNT ++!

Okay Tom, I'm allright with it now. I just wanted someone to address it. Thanks!

And yeah, I think there's been some good ideas of things to put over there. Perhaps there's a way we could put pretty much anything we wanted over there? Maybe make up our own non-post count related titles? We can make up our own humorous titles. You could make it that last field in the profile menu, and we could fill it in with whatever we want.

At the very least, can I request that we be allowed to see our own post counts? Like in "My Home"? I like being able to see how much of my time has been spent wasting away on this message board Wouldn't that be a fair comprimise?

why not at least a 2 day suspension from posting for posting/deleting etc...

Because the person I caught doing it was an otherwise valuable contributor to the forum. When I caught them the were very surprised and embarassed by it. I didn't need to do anything other than tell them that I noticed that they were doing it.

This is another reason I think the rankings are counterproductive. Someone did this who was, in all other aspects, a valuable contributor.

So what does that say about the post counts? To me, it says that even the best of us can be corrupted by that sort of thing. Any time you attach a "score" to something, it becomes competitive. And any time you have a competition, you are going to have losers and winners, as well as cheaters. Also, anywhere there are losers, there are people with hurt feelings.

Imagine if I told you that my post count was so high because I'd artificially increased it by doing the post/delete thing. I didn't do that, but what if I had? You'd instantly lose any remaining shreds of respect for me that you might have had, and the entire postcount ranking system would be useless. So tell me again, how useful are the post counts?

Sounds like an issolated event if it was one person one time.

But why am I bumping this thread! :P I don't really care and I'm more excited about being able to but other content in its place.

I just don't like when people have WAY too much freedom in those viewable profiles.. maybe selectable ones?

Sounds like an issolated event if it was one person one time.

It was not an isolated event. There have been others who've done this that I've seen, and I'm sure a certain number of others who I haven't seen. The event I described was the only time I witnessed it happening in real-time and was able to send a private message to that user and get an immediate reply.