A few changes I think would be cool with the MK2:

Make holding the forward/backward buttons to FF and RW cues, rather than controlling the volume.

I think the dial should also be sped up a bit with regards to volume. One click is nearly meaningless, and when you're trying to turn the volume down QUICKLY, it takes nearly 2 revolutions. Maybe we could config how much volume one "dial click" adds or removes from the volume? That would be the best I think..

:)

(O|||||O)

Make holding the forward/backward buttons to FF and RW cues, rather than controlling the volume.

They were planning on having that in there already, but it didn't quite make it yet. Will be in there soon.

___________
Tony Fabris

This is what is planned, we've just not got round to it. I would expect better volume control in a week or so (the time it takes me to break down and do it myself if Mike & the others are too busy ;) ).

Hugo

That's good news. The current implementation feels very Hewlett Packard. (And that's _not_ a good thing, if any HP engineers read this.) Speed dependence is a good thing(tm).
And guys, while I was carefully not (ahem) voiding my warranty, I'd like to state that Strongbow is a girls' drink :)
More seriously, is the tool for the displays getting a final polish before the next batch? There are some milling marks that may become more visible with a lighter tint.

Steve.

I've not noticed any milling marks on the display sheet: if you have, mail rob and tell him where so we can see if we can spot them. They look 100% smooth to me!

Hugo
(strongbow is *not* a girl's drink!)

I'm not aware of any problems with the screen finish. There certainly won't be milling marks, as the cavity was spark gap eroded, then polished. Where exactly are these marks? Are you sure they're not blemishes with the ITO coating on the rear face?

I guess one thing I should point out, now that some of you are taking your players apart, is that you must not touch the rear face of the screen. The coating will degrade if it comes into contact with the greases present on your skin, leaving finger prints. It is also quite mechanically fragile and will scratch easily, so always lay the screen face down (coated side up).

Rob

Re: surface finish on the display - mine looks as if the toolmaker has polished an aluminium tool with steel wool. Sort of swirly marks, probably a thou or less deep, particularly around the cut-outs where the buttons go. It's not obtrusive, but, with an obsessive hat on, it's not _flat_ flat. I'm pretty sure they're not just in the coating.

Obsessive Steve

Ours are flawless. My guess is it's either in the coating, or it's been wiped after manufacture with an inappropriate material - I'll check on the procedures.

Rob

Ours are flawless ( ... ) I'll check on the procedures.

When you do check, also check the dark grey area that encloses the left-most push button. On my Mk2 there's a rough spot on the horizontal bit, just beneath the screw that holds the face in place.

Not a big deal, but if you want to make things perfect . . . .

Henno
mk2 nr 6

Ah - when Rob is talking about the display, he's talking about the clear bit.

The grey plastic bit *has* been improved, and the first 50 owners will get new plastic (and their proper colour screen). Even I will get new plastic I think, Rob came back from the plastic people with a lovely new front panel on his empeg - no marks, no rubbing on the rotary control... but not one for me :(

All the next batch will have the proper quality plastic from the start.

Hugo

Yeah - looks like mine was just unlucky / early /whatever. Not to worry- it'll get swapped out soon enough anyway, and is hardly the end of the world.

Steve

Now that we are talking about minor flaws in the front panel, is there any plans for the inclined handle which takes contant with the front panel mask around the left hinge area?

This was already discussed briefly on here.

From that discussion, I got the feeling that atleast Henno and zimmy6996 are having the same thing on their units. Not that this would be a major thing, but something that I would assume people to be a bit worried about after buying a high-end "car stereo". Basically, it scratches the black painting from the handle, making it to turn a bit whiteish, as the handle seems to be only surface painted.

Kim

The handle is anodised, not painted. We've been looking at this, and it appears the handles have been badly moulded - not the plastic. Some are better than others, and I believe the handle people are looking into it.

Hugo

The handle manufacturers have had lots of problems, and we're looking into switching to a different foundry.

The handles are investment cast from aluminium, and the problem is that they gate into one of the top surfaces (so the cut isn't visible). Up until now they have trimmed them a little long, so one side of the handle is taller than the other, resulting in contact with the plastic.

We've instructed the foundry to take more care over the trimming, and we've also seated the plastic slightly higher so it should work with both old and new handles. We don't plan to send replacement handles to existing clients as the new plastic should fix the problem, and the handles are complex to fit (they use specialist thread cutting screws).

The finish of the handle is something we're not 100% happy with. We currently use a sealed electroless nickel process (anodising gave terrible results, something akin to an antique fireplace) but it does seem to wear a little unevenly. Unfortunately we have no real choice - this process is the best we can get for cast aluminium. It's a shame because the handles look absolutely fantastic when left as sand blasted aluminium. I'd love to produce a silver version of the player, but the original Mk.2 Fascia thread seemed to pretty much rule this out :-(

Now that some of you have seen your Mk.2 players, what do you think - would you like it in silver? Silver handle, silver bolts, light grey fascia and metallic controls. Maybe it would make a cool special edition or future upgrade.

By the way, the new plastic for existing owners is in transit to us at the moment, so that should go out (along with your carry cases and ISO connectors) early next week.

Rob

We don't plan to send replacement handles to existing clients as the new plastic should fix the problem, and the handles are complex to fit (they use specialist thread cutting screws).

The new plastic might stop scratching the handle more but it doesn't turn it black again - well, maybe I should just stop staring at the tiny white spot of the handle

Now that some of you have seen your Mk.2 players, what do you think - would you like it in silver? Silver handle, silver bolts, light grey fascia and metallic controls. Maybe it would make a cool special edition or future upgrade.

Well, it's hard to say how it would fit with different colors and such, but I would definitely give it a try. One of the great things is that you are actually able to switch between different colored displays on your own. And if there would be even more choice of the handle, bolts, fascia and buttons -combinations, that would be extremely cool!

In the first place, I ordered a green display but as I got blue for now, I like it as well, and why not the other colors wouldn't look good as well. It's nice that you can get variation to the player by just changing the fascia - that's something you can't do with any other car player!

Kim

> Silver handle, silver bolts, light grey fascia and metallic controls. Maybe it would make a cool special edition or future upgrade.

Yup, that would be very v.cool. Bare aluminium is a bit of a theme in my car...

Steve

... take more care over the trimming, and seated the plastic slightly higher.
That will do it. The clearance only needs to be widened a wee tiny bit. The slightest adjustment will be enough (at least on my Mk2).

We don't plan to send replacement handles to existing clients
Fair. I could easily live with it were you not able to adjust the face. My only reason for mentioning it was to give you a chance to avoid this on the next thousands of Mk2s and get them even closer to being perfect . That's what the first 40 are for, aren't they?

The finish of the handle is something we're not 100% happy with (..)it does seem to wear a little unevenly. .
Yeh, but only very slightly. The reason that one *can* see it is because of the light that directly strikes the edge of the handle from above, exactly there where the handle is most susceptible to show the wear. You may want to consider to move the edge of the handle into the shadow of the face, by either setting back the handle a nit deeper in the face, by smoothing the 90 degree edge along the top of the handle, or by making the face a fraction thicker at the bottom so that it sits deeper in the face.

Now that some of you have seen your Mk.2 players (..) would you like it in silver? Silver handle, silver bolts, light grey fascia and metallic controls.
I was amongst the crowd asking you to keep the Mk2 simple. Well, you have done so and it looks absolutely great. I don't think a silver model will look good in my car, but that's because of the car; not the Mk2. Definitely something to pursue as an option and for advertising / shows. It'll look great.

While on the subject of looks: the wingshaped window that surrounds the display makes the display to appear much bigger than on the Mk1. Especially in random line visuals like the 'Tunnel'-whatever, it looks as if the visual moves around within a much larger window than the display allows.

By the way, the new plastic for existing owners (..)should go out early next week.
Where is the cost for the plastics? If it is in shipping, handling and margin, you could, may be, offer a set of different colours at a reasonable price?

Henno
mk2 nr 6

It's weird, about the smaller display looking bigger, but it really does. A fine design. It does get a little dustier than a MkI, though, or at least a little harder to wipe the dust off. I don't know how hard it would be to make the tinted panel sweep out rather than be recessed. Might get scratched rather than dusty, of course...
The angel / little dude shape of the buttons still makes me smile. It's the volume knob that seems, well, average. Any chance of a spare one I could try painting black or dark blue when you post out my bits'n'pieces?

Steve

A silver special edition would be great...
However, given the chance I'd like a carbon fibre look... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 for sale 4 gig #30, apply within)

I'm ok with any type of changes to the look, as long as it never goes to this

>Any chance of a spare one I could try painting black or dark blue when you
> post out my bits'n'pieces

Argh Plastics suck anyways ...

Please do a metal face plate & knobs for a price ...
The gray plastic buttons look really cheap ...

Nils

The price would probably be around $500-$1000 for a metal face; you do realise this? Building arbitrary shapes out of aluminium from 3D cad input isn't cheap. In fact, it's called mould-making for plastics!

Hugo

Hmmm... so if - let's say 200 people would order such a faceplate that would be $5 per person (I think this is only the developing-cost) - of course the production and material are at some cost, too. But divided by 200 it can't be too much for a completed metalwork faceplate ?

I know it's not that easy - It was just a thought. I'm sure I'll like the Mk2 - As I've seen on the photos it'll fit into my dash very good.


TeeMcBee

I don't think you read Hugo's post correctly: that's $1,000 per faceplate, not total cost of development. Given that would double the price of the head unit, I doubt there's gonna be many takers.....

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Well, no problem, i got a friend, beeing the head of some CNC-CAD workstations, give me the 3D, he will cut it for my for free (thats what he said, when i asked for a new face for my Mk1, lets see if he meant it ) ...

Now *that* would be cool ...
As i have *no* idea about CNC, do you have the 3D in a suitable format ??

Nils

P.S. Then i have to look for a solution for the knobs ...

Hi Rob,

Now that some of you have seen your Mk.2 players, what do you think - would you like it in silver? Silver handle, silver bolts, light grey fascia and metallic controls. Maybe it would make a cool special edition or future upgrade.

I for one would like to see that, I'd even buy another MK2 just to put one in my TVR

What about wood verneer or terracota brick or Formica lavander finish? Just an idea....

Regards,


_________________________________________
John, (MK1 114-20G, MK2 15-36G).

I can't believe that would be so much for a single faceplate out of - let's say 500. The material for the faceplates can't be too expensive. And if you have a bigger amount of faceplates produced then the work will be cheaper per single unit. That's the way it usually goes. I don't think the faceplates would be kind of handmade. This would make the price clear but I can't believe that.

TeeMcBee

The plastic faceplates are moulded, using an aluminium mould. The mould, which is made with a very complex process involving CNC machining & other stuff (Rob know more about this than me) costs well over $30,000 - for *one*.

Of course, once it's made, the plastic is cheap and you can make faceplates out of any colour of plastic (clear, silvery with some metal content - like the current mk2 buttons, etc).

Making a *metal* faceplate is harder. You would either have to CNC machine each one indidivually (ie a big machine under computer control takes thousands of passes at the same bit of metal, grinding bits away which aren't supposed to be there) - which would cost a fortune. Actually, $1000 is probably much less than this would cost...

The alternative is casting, which is how the handle is made. However, this doesn't work as well for complex shapes like the front panel.

In mass production, you'd get a stamp made and punch flat metal into the right shape (eg, how a minidisc player's thin metal housing is made). The cost of such stamps is well into 6 or even 7 figures.

Hugo

The stamps (as you said the types used by mini-disc cases) cost a lot less than that.

I used to work in a workshop that cretated prototype stamps for around $2000, and they would be a lot larger than the ones needed for MKII faceplates with a lot more detail. Although that would be for one of the proto-types, I once overheard the price of £11,000 for the full version of a coolant cover cap for something or other, which was about 2x the size of the empeg faceplate.

Pitty they sold the business, they would have been happy to do a thing like that.

But I have to admit this now, these prices where 6 years ago.


I am so happy - when my number comes up, I getting my player paid for by some1 else. HMM, wonder what size HD's there will be by then.

Proud owner of #161

There's a difference between protoype tooling and mass production tooling. We got our fascia tool for about 1/5th the cost of a normal production tool because it'll wear out after making about 30,000 faceplates - but if we sell 30,000 car players we won't mind paying for another tool!

The prices you're talking about aren't in line with the industry costs that we have experienced. We spent several thousand pounds just on the tools to punch out the handle hinges and the press tabs for the car cage. In all, tooling for the Mk.2 player has run into many tens of thousands of pounds, but people don't take this into account when calculating "how cheap" we could make a low volume product.

Rob

grr. i like wood.

Calvin

Paper Machie and a can of spray paint?

empeg face plate do it yourself kit, 1x of a piece of tin, nail file and a tack hammer...