#12380 - 01/08/2000 09:50
The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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Just called in my VISA number and boy... I don't know about this, but they sounded too proper on the phone... could be their accents. Kinda took me off guard. They sounded very professional... not at all like they seem on the geek site.  Just fooling with you guys... thanks Rob for the quick response regarding the VISA number I sent you... but then again I guess you want the money just as bad as I want an empeg! #170... I got my order invite and I have ordered my 12 gig blue!!! YAAAAHHHHOOOOOOO
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12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#12381 - 01/08/2000 10:27
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: ShadowMan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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You forget: It is we who have the accents. Remember where our language came from.
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Tony Fabris
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#12382 - 01/08/2000 12:03
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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> Remember where our language came from.
Yeah, and if you're not careful we might ask for it back! :)
Rob
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#12383 - 01/08/2000 12:47
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: rob]
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stranger
Registered: 01/05/2000
Posts: 26
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama USA
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Sounds good. Just meet us at Bunker Hill in Lexington, Massachusetts and we'll let you take it back. :-)
Oh, and bring the red coats. :-)
Jambo
Something like #14000 (give or take a few)
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Jambo
Something like #14000 (give or take a few)
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#12384 - 01/08/2000 16:50
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Tony,
What in the blazes are you talking about? According to my sources, the Americans invented the english language 2 centuries back.
Calvin
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#12385 - 02/08/2000 02:20
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: Jambo]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Let me remind you, guys from the Colonies, that Congress decided on English as the official language of the Union (over German) with majority of two or three votes (or so I have been told, anyway... :)
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
#5196
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#12386 - 02/08/2000 04:13
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: bonzi]
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journeyman
Registered: 19/09/1999
Posts: 97
Loc: Denmark, Kbh Ø
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Hmm I just wonder how WorldWar2 wout have endet if the janks had been speaking german  Mark wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave (USB->GPS)(USB->Bluetooth)(USB->You name it)
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Mark
wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave
(USB->GPS)(USB->Bluetooth)(USB->You name it)
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#12387 - 02/08/2000 14:49
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: rob]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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> Remember where our language came from.
Yeah, and if you're not careful we might ask for it back! :)
eewww!
After all the years of mis-treatment? You still want it back?
That's disgusting!
Murray 06000047
____________________
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Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#12388 - 02/08/2000 14:59
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: muzza]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Yeah, and if you take it back, you've got to take the southern dialect and ebonics, too. I don't think you want that, but it would sure help us out! DiGNAN 
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Matt
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#12389 - 02/08/2000 15:32
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: Mark Petersen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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I just wonder how WorldWar2 wout have endet if the janks had been speaking german
OK, now I just have to tell this story...
Back in the 1970's I worked as Service Manager at the local Volkswagen dealer. This was when all VW's were air-cooled 4-cylinder rear-engined cars. Four G.I.s (American soldiers) pushed a VW Beetle to our shop from a few blocks away where they had just finished overhauling the engine. Not knowing any better, they had neglected to set the crankshaft endplay, and the engine wouldn't turn. So they asked for our help in diagnosis.
We sent Big Klaus out to take a look, and he discovered the problem in moments. Now Big Klaus looked like a poster boy for Teutonic excellence -- 30 years old, 1.9 meters tall, 200 pounds, blonde, crew-cut, blue eyes, strapping good health. The G.I.s didn't like his diagnosis, so they began pushing the car up and down the street popping the clutch in second gear, whereupon the car would skid to a stop with the rear wheels locked up.
Big Klaus stood out on the street watching this comedy of errors, hands on hips, shook his head, and said in his thick German accent (please bear with my attempts at phonetics): "Amedican G.I.s like zat, und still ve lose der var."
I can close my eyes and see it again just as if it were yesterday...
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#12390 - 02/08/2000 23:41
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Hmm.. Wasn't the VW from the 70s called VW Bug? My girlfriend loves them and would like to have one.... The "Th" seems to be a real problem in speaking english for many germans  TeeMcBee
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TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12391 - 03/08/2000 09:28
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: teemcbee]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Wasn't the VW from the 70s called VW Bug?
I'm pretty sure the official U.S. distribution model name was "Beetle", and "Bug" was the popular nickname.
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Tony Fabris
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#12392 - 03/08/2000 10:02
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Ahh! Some weeks ago I had a look as some mexican sites to find out something about the "bug-beetle" - where I could maybe order one (aren't they built again in mexico or am I misinformed? - No I think I've seen a price and some exact details...) First I was seeking for Beetle but I always ended with the new Beetle. Then I tried it with Bug and I succeded... Well - But it might be like you said, Tony. TeeMcBee Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
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TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12393 - 04/08/2000 05:24
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Just read in Linux Journal yesterday that a VW Bug was seen in California with the license plate 'FEATURE' Wish I'd thought of that one Geoff ---- ------- Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
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Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB
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#12394 - 04/08/2000 05:46
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: teemcbee]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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The original car was called "The Peoples Car" (Volks Wagen) and since it was the only vehicle made by the company, there was no model name. The Beetle developed years later, but was still not the official model designation. The "Bug" was the generic nickname, with the various van and saloon derivatives all gaining their own nicknames. The original Beetle 1303/1306 (1300cc Mk3/Mk6) is still being manufactured in both Brazil and Mexico. There are various companies importing them at low profit into Europe. However, this is all a bit moot since VW are now manufacturing a new generation Beetle in Europe based on the Golf chassis, which is an absolute delight to drive (if somewhat expensive). Try one. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#12395 - 04/08/2000 05:58
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Am I the only one who does not like the new bugs? I mean, they're different and everything, but I much prefer the styling of the old bug to the new one. I always thought that an old red convertible bug would be a cool car to own. I think when they moved the engine from the back to the front, they decided that they didn't need as much space in the front as they once did. Now the new bug looks practically symetrical if you draw a line down the middle. Just look at the difference:   And don't get me started on the plastic molded flower holder.  DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12396 - 04/08/2000 06:06
VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I am not sure about the looks, I confess, but mainly due to the fact we had at least three of the originals in the family at one time or another. I agree about the "flower holder", but I have a friend with an ingenious use for his... Drive one. You will be amazed. Don't buy one though; the only one worth having is the VR6 G60 (supercharged) version, and they are asking Monopoly money (somewhere like Park Lane with a Hotel) for it. I would much rather buy a Lotus Elise for the same money, and my empeg would fit the dash better One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#12397 - 04/08/2000 06:12
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Well despite the fact that you must be playing a British version of Monopoly (I think you're talking about Park Place in the US version- the second best spot on the board?) I get your point I haven't driven one, but I've rode in one, and I wasn't all that impressed. I'm sure it wasn't the type you're talking about, though. There was ONE thing that impressed me, though. Something I think every car should have, but I understand why they don't, and that's an AC outlet built in. That is a very nice feature. However, I got a gift certificate to Brookstone recently, so I bought a 120watt one for like $50. It's nice, because I only have an in-house cell phone charger, and now I can use that in the car! I can also recharge my HP Jornada 820. However, I can't say I liked much else about it. DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12398 - 04/08/2000 06:28
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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I much prefer the older to the newer. They just are not the same. I had a few friends that had Bugs when I was growing up and I remember a 57 that someone had and they just abandoned it on the side of the road because it threw a rod in the engine. Poor thing.
Laura
I live to launch.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12399 - 04/08/2000 06:31
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Laura]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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They must have been really trying hard to do that. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#12400 - 04/08/2000 06:43
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: schofiel]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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I know the new Beetle. Nice car - for those who like this shape. I don't really like it too much. I prefer limousines.
TeeMcBee
Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
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TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12401 - 04/08/2000 06:49
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Well - as I said before - I don't like the new Beetle, too. But I didn't like the old one. Maybe some tuned models and the very first models (with the small splitted backwindows) looked quite nice.
TeeMcBee
Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12402 - 04/08/2000 08:11
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: Geoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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ROFL!
___________
Tony Fabris
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#12403 - 04/08/2000 10:03
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: schofiel]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I test drove the Beetle last year and I was incredibly impressed. The handling is very tight, great suspension, and I like the shifter quite a bit. Lots of headroom but mostly I was impressed in how sporty it felt.
Where are they offering a G60 Bug? In Europe?
Calvin
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#12404 - 04/08/2000 12:07
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Laura]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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...it threw a rod in the engine.Let's see... '57 VW would be a 1200cc, 36 horsepower engine, and this is absolutely the first time I have ever heard of one of those throwing a rod. You can run them out of oil and seize them up, but other than that it would usually be pretty hard to get one of them to quit. You know, that '57 bug in average mechanical and cosmetic condition today would be worth more than your Nova! (Not as fast through the quarter mile, though... ) Just to throw a bit of fuel on the flames... the New Beetle is superior in every aspect to the old, with the possible exception of totally mis-remembered nostalgia. Trust me when I say that the old VW Beetles were dreadful cars by any modern standard of comparison: noisy, ill-handling, slow, miserable in cold weather, uncomfortable, and not (again by today's standards) particularly economical to operate. Factor in that in today's money, the New Beetle actually costs less than the old one did (calculate the number of hours you had to work to buy an old Beetle in 1970 compared to a New Beetle today...) and there's no doubt which is the better car. Let the Flame War Begin!! tanstaafl. "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#12405 - 04/08/2000 14:35
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Yup, VR6 G60 with permanent 4WD to special order. Ooooh. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#12406 - 04/08/2000 16:03
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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> mostly I was impressed in how sporty it felt.
That'll be because it's essentially a Golf GTi. That said, the GTi is tighter, by all accounts.
I didn't like the new Beetle much, but since Hugo got one it's grown on me more. The A Class looks really pedestrian parked next to it.
Rob
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#12408 - 04/08/2000 17:02
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Yep, I've got one (one of the very first right-hand-drive ones), in pearlescent blue.
It's got a Kicker Impulse 405 amp & Phase linear sub (very flat), plus infinity kappa's in the front (rear speakers are stock). Sounds amazing - much better than the A-Class (so much so that Rob started suggesting that we need a beetle as a demonstrator!).
I should really take some pics of the install, cambscar did a very neat job.
Hugo
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#12409 - 04/08/2000 17:19
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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So what are you sticking in the bud vase?
___________
Tony Fabris
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#12410 - 04/08/2000 18:14
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Surely that's Hugo's Beetle on the geek site, next to the A-Class outside the company offices? I love pearlescent paint - had a Rover in pearlescent blue a couple of years back... the way it seemed to change colour in bright sunlight depending on what angle you were looking at it from was amazing Geoff ---- ------- Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB
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#12411 - 05/08/2000 03:00
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Nothing, at the moment... any suggestions? ;)
Hugo
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#12412 - 05/08/2000 06:04
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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One of the first new Beetles I saw at a dealership had a pen in it. Much more effective at that then holding a flower. :)
#170... I got my order invite and I have ordered my 12 gig blue!!! YAAAAHHHHOOOOOOO
_________________________
12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#12413 - 05/08/2000 08:07
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: ShadowMan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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In reply to:
Let's see... '57 VW would be a 1200cc, 36 horsepower engine, and this is absolutely the first time I have ever heard of one of those throwing a rod. You can run them out of oil and seize them up, but other than that it would usually be pretty hard to get one of them to quit.
That could be what happened. I didn't know very much about engines back then but that was what I was told. Maybe they didn't really know either.
In reply to:
You know, that '57 bug in average mechanical and cosmetic condition today would be worth more than your Nova! (Not as fast through the quarter mile, though...
Probably true. I have alot more in the Nova than what it is worth but it is only money and I can't take it with me and my cats don't really need it so what the hell :) It's my toy! (and hobby)
Laura
I live to launch.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12414 - 06/08/2000 22:56
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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As far as I know the G60 is an engine they don't produce anymore. (like the Polo's G 40) They had to much problems with it. As you can remember it's been in some Corrados, too. Now their top-model is the 2.8 V6 with 204 HP. (used in the 4motion-Model)
TeeMcBee
Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12415 - 06/08/2000 22:58
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Well - so it sounds better than it looks TeeMcBee Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12416 - 06/08/2000 23:00
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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You could mount a microphone there - as soon as VR becomes available TeeMcBee Reg#948 - already ordered a Mk2.
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12417 - 07/08/2000 05:34
Re: VW Beetles
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 20/05/1999
Posts: 411
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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> The A Class looks really pedestrian parked next to it.
I'll remember to park my car next to the A Class then to make it look better. At least until Toby arrives... :)
--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)
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Mike Crowe
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#12418 - 07/08/2000 12:40
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: teemcbee]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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The 1.8T engine is from what I've read pretty much on par with the 2.8 6 from everything I've heard. It turns out drivetrain losses in the 2.8, and a very efficient drivetrain in the 1.8 along with a good torque curve pretty much puts these two on par with each other in actual practice. That's why the 1.8 is being fitted into just about all the VW's in all their lines, and it's selling quite well as well..
Calvin
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#12419 - 07/08/2000 12:45
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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The Bug is a really great car, you just have to jump in one and haul ass around a few corners to know what I mean. :) I don't have one, but I almost bought one! ;)
Calvin
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#12420 - 07/08/2000 12:50
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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The old beetle was also incredibly unsafe. I've seen the crash test videos of the bug smashing into walls at all different angles and speeds and I'm quite impressed. I think the new beetle costs more than the old one inflation adjusted, but it's definitely worth it.
If only they made a VR6 4Motion beetle ragtop...
Calvin
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#12421 - 07/08/2000 13:18
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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An article I found.
http://www.beetlebuzz.com/features/safe.html
:)
Calvin
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#12422 - 07/08/2000 13:36
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Regardless of safety, I wouldn't buy the new bug. It's the image it conveys. Nothing against you, mac. Just wondering, what is a "foldable rearview mirror"? About the article. They didn't really bring back the shape like he kept saying. The only shapes remaining from the old bug are in the wheel-wells and headlights. The new bug has a front-engine, cab-forward design that isn't shared by the old model. Oh well, it doesn't matter. I'm not buying the old or new bug. I've already got a car that's probably safer than both. DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12423 - 07/08/2000 17:53
Re: The guys@empeg are too proper sounding...
[Re: Jambo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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I hope that a knowledgeable geography major from the far side of the Atlantic will point out that Bunker Hill is *not* in Lexington, Massachusetts.
Jim (of the Jamaica Plain Jims, summering for the past 12 years in Seattle)
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#12424 - 07/08/2000 18:52
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I would imagine it is a rearview mirror that is capable of being folded.
Calvin "wise cracking tonight.. whoo whoo"
p.s. I would have to say that you're a fool to say the ONLY SHAPES IN COMMON between the old and new bugs are the headlights and wheel wells. the design vocabulary in common between the two cars is enormous and any person off the street can be pressed into identifying the huge similiarities in SHAPE between the two cars. (The position of the engine plays no role in the shape of the car.) Ha ha! nice try...
p.p.s. mac is the other guy ;)
p.p.p.s. safety is not big on my list of requirements on a car. that's why i feel ok driving a ragtop. vroom.
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#12425 - 07/08/2000 19:37
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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member
Registered: 08/06/2000
Posts: 144
Loc: Ft Lauderdale, FL
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Oh, I don't know about the old beetle being unsafe... I had a 1972 Robin's Egg Blue Super Beetle (That's what my mom called it, when she gave it to me.)
I had a tie-rod snap at 55 on the interstate, and managed to dent all four fenders, the hood and the trunk as I rolled around the guard-rails.
Everyone who stopped asked me how I managed to get it to not roll over. My response was simple... "I just closed my eyes!"
I thought it was the greatest car when I had it, to the point that I bought another one to replace the mangled Blue one. Then I thought to check the frame, etc. and noticed it was cracked.
It was then that I "upgraded" to a chevette!
Anyways, it was a fun car when I had it, and free is always great, but in retrospect, it was a horrible car as far as handling, ride, etc. goes.
-Trevor
_________________________
-Trevor
-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB, Tuner, 2.0b11, 080000349
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#12426 - 07/08/2000 19:57
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I know the general design is similar. The point is that I prefer the way the old one is designed. That part is a preference. And sorry, but the placement of the engine does affect the way it looks. In fact, it affects the one major gripe about the way it looks. The front end of the old bug was longer than the new because the engine was in the rear. Now that it's in the front, the car looks like a turtle, not a beetle. And if safety isn't important to you, why'd you point it out? by the way, I too thought the old ragtops looked pretty sweet. When are they making a convertable "new bug"? DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12427 - 08/08/2000 12:06
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I'm was just getting on your case with your comment on shape similarities. Obviously there are differences, for example, the lights that used to be on the wheel fenders in the old are integrated into the headlight assembly in the new. (So your comment about the headlights being the same isn't true ;). The point here is that any car design separated by decades will have design differences, but if it is intended to be the same model, then it should be easy to tell at a glance that they're related. I pointed out safety because it was a quality that is different between the two bugs. I also pointed out handling, the shifter, the headroom, and other differences as well.  This is my car, by the way. :-) What you think? :> Calvin
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#12428 - 08/08/2000 12:37
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ahh, very nice. I can't tell from that picture, what's the year on that? I could tell from the back but not from the interior. I actually own a '96. Sweet car, despite its own problems. I absolutely cannot believe that you were going to pick a new bug over it though. That's just nuts if you ask me. DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12429 - 10/08/2000 09:20
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I just have to appreciate cars that have qualities that are done right. The Bug is one of those cars, and is something that has to be truly driven to be appreciated. In a *Stock( condition comparison, the VW Bug has a much finer suspension, and shifter feel than my Spyder. The steering is equally responsive and tight, so essentially, from the driver's perspective the Bug is a Nice Car. It's also the closest approximation to an Audi TT you can get for that price. :)
Calvin
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#12430 - 10/08/2000 10:12
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Okay, let's look at specs if you want to continue this nonsense:
spec.......eclipse......bug
HP.........205..........150
cylinders..6............4
liters.....3............1.8
MSRP.......20,187.......21,075
I just don't see what the big deal with this car is. DiGNAN 13653 Edited by DiGNAN17 on 10/8/00 06:20 PM.
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Matt
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#12431 - 10/08/2000 10:55
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Consider the Miata. It's a 140 horsepower car, but the balance and handling is so fine it consistently ranks as one of the top ten cars year over year. The ability of a car to adjust its speedometer needle by standing on the gas pedal from a stoplight is not the measure of a car. Remember that! There's a lot to be said for example, about sitting down in a Miata and attempting to flip the thing over with turns. Or jumping in an S2000 and winding the engine to 10000 rpms and listening to the VTEC music. BTW: The S2000 (as well as its arch nemesis the Porsche Boxster) are also not cars known for jumping off the line at high speeds. Neither is the Bug and neither is the Audi TT for that matter. :*) Basically all I say here is you can't look at a balance sheet and conclude what the character of a car is. No way! Until you sit in these cars (including the bug :) and haul some ass around straights and corners what do your opinions mean?
Calvin
P.S. And I do appreciate being able to haul ass from a starting line and I think the Supra TT and Camaro SS are just roller coasters on wheels, awesome fun!
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#12432 - 10/08/2000 11:11
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ah, but D, you didn't count the bud vase! See? Gotcha! Eclipse=no bud vase. Sorry, you lose. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#12433 - 10/08/2000 11:15
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I understand what you are talking about. I'm not an idiot. I happen to think that the eclipse takes turns better than any car I've ever driven. Escpecially when coming out of a turn. It zooms! I understand what you are saying about "the feel of the car", but quite often, numbers like those are good starting points for a measure of how well a car performs overall. There is no way that I would prefer a 150 HP bug over my 210 HP turbo Eclipse. It's shaped better for performance than the bug, too. As for the Miata, well, I had the choice of that over the Eclipse. Then I saw how pathetically small it was. It's completely impractical. DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12434 - 10/08/2000 11:22
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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My Eclipse also has AWD, which doesn't appear to be available on the bug. It also comes with a standard Infinity sound system w/tape and CD player. DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12435 - 10/08/2000 13:46
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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OK, I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this discussion, but... no willpower, I guess.
I just don't see what the big deal with this car is.
In a word: Nostalgia.
A lot of people remember the old VW Bugs with fondness (it's amazing how faded 30-year-old memories can be better than the way things actually were!) That old Bug was an icon for its time, and yes, while the New Bug doesn't look exactly the same as the Old Bug, it is so evocative of the Old Bug that recognition is instantaneous and universal.
As far as the qualities of the New Bug, it is a perfectly adequate, maybe a bit above average but certainly not an extraordinary car by today's standards. After all, it is just a VW Golf with funny looking sheet metal on it. (I say "just" a Golf, but a Golf in its own right is quite a good car.)
It's the nostalgia factor that elevates the New Bug to near-cult status. It's a good little car, fun to drive, and it is a passport to memories of what many people perceive as a better time.
tanstaafl
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#12436 - 10/08/2000 14:14
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Hey! Stop slagging off all the cars I own!
I'm sure my miata would corner better than your eclipse - having had extensive suspension mods - though it wouldn't go as fast in a straight line (even though it's got a turbo, it's only very light pressure. It's only the nutters who have 240bhp at the wheels + nitrous in a miata...)
Hugo
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#12437 - 10/08/2000 14:22
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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It's only the nutters who have 240bhp at the wheels + nitrous in a miata... And you don't think that somebody who builds a home-made MP3 player for his car and then spends the next three years refining it to sell to other people, and who surrounds himself with really strange people (i.e., Patrick who makes jet engines out of old turbochargers!) and who stays up all hours of the day and night answering purposeless e-mails and bbs posts like this one, qualifies? I'll bet that Laura could point you in the direction of someone who could sell you a nitrous setup... tanstaafl. "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#12438 - 10/08/2000 14:45
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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oh geez, sorry about that Hugo. I forgot you had a Miata too. I'm sorry! What I meant to say is that it was too small for me. This was at the beginning of high school and I had 3 saxophones to carry around including a baritone. There was no way I was going to fit all that and a backpack into the Miata. That's what I meant. And now that I think about it, yes, it should corner better than my car. About the nostalgia, I don't think that's the reason most people buy it. Alot of the people buying it weren't even driving yet when it had its first time around. People now buy it because it's different and/or cute, and instead of buying a cute Neon (which is not as good a ride), or a more ordinary Golf (which is basically what the bug is), they go for a distinctively retro look. And seeking a retro look is different than nostalgia. In a way, it's just like the PT Cruiser, which I was looking into getting but didn't because it was, again, too small for my needs (though not quite as small as the Miata). People buy the PT because it's super-retro. In other words, I shouldn't have said I didn't see why it was so popular, I should have asked why this guy still thought it was a better car than the one he bought. But I really don't care anyway, so what does it matter? Again, Hugo, sorry about that. What started out as just a statement that I liked the old bugs better than the new ones somehow got twisted into "I hate all cars you own"  DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12439 - 10/08/2000 15:09
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I was only joking - but I love my miata & my bug.
One thing that has impressed me with the beetle is how well built it is. Ok, so it uses some oil (which is a shock having had the miata for 10 years and 91k miles with it *never* using a drop of oil between services), but the quality of the plastics and the design of the interior are wonderful.
I love curvy cars, they're so much nicer to wash than boxy ones :)
Hugo
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#12440 - 10/08/2000 15:23
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I don't think your new Beetle should be consuming any oil at all. As far as I know, no new car should do this. Is it just that you're not checking the oil level when it's fully cold?
___________
Tony Fabris
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#12441 - 10/08/2000 20:08
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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In reply to:
It's only the nutters who have 240bhp at the wheels + nitrous in a miata...)
Hugo,
You're a bit out of touch with recent developments, I'm afraid. 240rwhp is only average amongs the turbo crowd. The bar has been reset to 300hp. Talked to Espen lately? (Hmmm, come to think of it, neither have I, but he was in the 17psi range last I heard from him.)
Oh, and that's 300rwhp before nitrous.
-Zandr
List Admin, MiataPower
Mk.I #150 in '90 Miata, 95rwhp but lots of grip
Mk.II #39 in '00 M Coupe, 215rwhp and lots of grip.
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#12442 - 10/08/2000 20:44
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ok, so it uses some oil (which is a shock having had the miata for 10 years and 91k miles with it *never* using a drop of oil between services)I think I can be of some service there. Which model is it? Is it that GLX one, with the turbo-charged engine? Because if it is then I think that's what does it. My Eclipse has a turbo engine and it uses alot of oil. That's not all that bad, but having that turbo charged engine means more check-ups and oil changes. In fact, we screwed up thinking that the oil change was farther away than it was, and we voided our warranty on the thing. So that sucks. On a side note about oil, I once had an Oldsmobile Silhouette (you know, the "Cadillac of minivans from Get Shorty). Anyway, I loved that van. It felt and drove like a car, was pretty light, and had some cool features (graphic equalizer that came out on one of those bendable poles that let me control alot of the stereo). Anyway, turns out that when my mom was driving it for a long period, she forgot to put oil in it even after the oil light came on. Well, that shot the engine and it started stalling at akward times, like in the very middle of an intersection. But naturally, that only happened when I drove it DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12443 - 10/08/2000 21:00
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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In reply to:
I'll bet that Laura could point you in the direction of someone who could sell you a nitrous setup...
I could but I don't run on it myself. Just the highest octane I can find plus octane boost added. Nor do I have a blown engine (yet).
Laura
I live to launch.
Edited by Laura on 11/8/00 05:00 AM.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12444 - 10/08/2000 23:27
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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> One thing that has impressed me with the beetle is how well built it is.
*cough* That's not what you said last time you took it back for repairs :-)
Rob
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#12445 - 10/08/2000 23:43
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: n6mod]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Seeing as I've been frightened by your driving in the miata, I think I'd just pass out if you were driving the M coupe over those mountain roads... ;)
Hugo
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#12446 - 10/08/2000 23:44
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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More the design of the build than the actual build. C'mon, it is made in mexico ;)
Hugo
(fyi: passenger window winder needs replacing & ambient temperature guage still thinks it's icy...)
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#12447 - 10/08/2000 23:50
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Hmm, no they don't sell the turbo bug in the UK yet. 2.0 VW engines have a reputation for using oil though, at least for the first 20k miles.
But... the miata is a turbo'ed engine and *still* uses no oil (which is good, because Mobil 1 synthetic is expensive...)
Hugo
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#12448 - 10/08/2000 23:51
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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No, it even got to the stage that the oil light came on & I had to put half a litre in there. According to everyone I've spoken to who has owned a 2l 8v VW engine, this is normal.
Hugo
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#12449 - 11/08/2000 00:04
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Hmm - is it really made in Mexico? I think only for the USA it's made there. As far as I know the Europeans get it from Germany, Wolfsburg. (That's why it is so very expensive in Europe I think)
TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12450 - 11/08/2000 00:09
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Hmm - more checkups with a turbo engine? What do you say to that then:
My Peugeot has the HDI-engine. That's a diesel commonrail direct injection turbo loaded with 110 PS. And the service-intervalls are at 20.000 km (12.500 miles). OK - it's said that you have to control the oil between services. But isn't that said at any car?
TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12451 - 11/08/2000 00:11
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 15/07/1999
Posts: 568
Loc: Meije, Netherlands
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Mobil 1 synthetic is expensive... but it delivers what you pay for . . . . Henno mk2 6 nr 6
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Henno
mk2 [orange]6 [/orange]nr 6
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#12452 - 11/08/2000 00:27
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Seems to be a kind of bug in the Bugs... Do you know this (I don't know if it works with the current models but it worked on the PoloI,II,III, GolfI,II,III, VW-Bus,...) If you turn on the headlights, then turn on e.g. the wiper or back-window-heater or vent and then pull the control stick for the far-light(sorry - I don't know the word here) then every second time the wiper/heater/vent starts. TeeMcBee Got my Mk2! # 080000143
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#12453 - 11/08/2000 03:08
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Errr... Major ommision from this list: Weight. Drive one, and see for yourself. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#12454 - 11/08/2000 03:15
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Henno]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Now, now Henno - your bias is showing (but FYI, I reckon Mobil 1 is about the best oil I have ever used - why do I only run cars which need older oil viscosities? Damn!) One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#12455 - 11/08/2000 05:23
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Errr... Major ommision from this list: Weight.Fine. Eclipse: 3190 Bug: 3008 (By the way, all my comparisons were of the top-of-the-line vehicles. I don't know why, but it's pretty much the same all the way down) Actually, look on the Mitsubishi web site. Go to the Eclipse section, choose compare, and from there you can compare the Eclipse to just about every single car manufactured in the 2000 model year. I have to admit, this is something that no other car manufacturer I've seen has been willing to put on their web pages. oh- and from that comparison, you'll notice that there are slight differences between the eclipse and the bug. the Eclipse has slightly smaller interior space, aside from greater front legroom (which is important) and, suprisingly, a greater cargo space. They are similar, that is, until you get to the engine department. You have to see for yourself. It's all a matter of preference. Honestly, a VW Bug probably has a better residual value than the Eclipse. But hey, I'm driving it now! DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12456 - 11/08/2000 08:54
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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It's funny that you guys are comparing Miatas and Beetles. I went on a very "spirited" ride here in northern California with 8 Boxters, 8 Miatas, and a VW Beetle. Please see attached to see what happened to the Beetle...
- Jon
Attachments
1-12758-beetle.jpg (431 downloads)
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#12457 - 11/08/2000 09:01
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Holy crap! How did that happen? DiGNAN 13653
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Matt
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#12458 - 11/08/2000 09:07
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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We're not sure. I was two cars behind him. I just heard the crack. He actually was airborne before he his that tree. Good thing he hit it since he would have fallen about 500 feet before he would have hit anything else...
He didn't know what had happened, and he doesn't remember the car skidding (no skidmarks either). I'm thinking target fixation... Happens a lot on motorcycles. Where you kind of freak out and tense up and don't do anything as you head for a tree or something...
Car was totaled, passenger was fine. Airbags did their trick.
This guy had spent a LOT of money on that car. Those wheels were ordered from Germany for about 2k each for instance...
Funny thing is that he was really holding his own in some pretty intense company. We were driving very hard.
BTW, I LOVE MY MIATA!!! I passed 2 Boxters at speed on difficult turns that day. Safely too...
- Jon
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#12459 - 11/08/2000 09:11
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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Poor little Bug. It looks like it got out cornered on some twisting turning roads to me. My Nova would probably join it since it doesn't hold the corners in a fast turn like my old 87 Honda Accord did.
Laura
I live to launch.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12460 - 11/08/2000 09:14
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Laura]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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While I'm at it (posting pictures) here's one I took at World Superbike at Laguna Seca... Enjoy GUYS... No offense girls...
- Jon
Attachments
1-12768-babe2.jpg (392 downloads)
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#12461 - 11/08/2000 09:21
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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None taken but I bet she sure doesn't ride that way. And if she did she sure fits in as a dumb blonde.
Laura
I live to launch.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12462 - 11/08/2000 09:31
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Yikes. What highway were you on, in what mountain range? I have, in the past in my GTI, been known to drive in a spirited fashion on windy mountain roads. I gave up those days when I got a sensible family car...
___________
Tony Fabris
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#12463 - 11/08/2000 09:39
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Here is our ride route for that day:
We start at Dr. Wong's office on Woodside Road (Hwy 84) in Redwood City. We go up Woodside Road, through Woodside, and on up the hill to Skyline Blvd.
From there, we head down Hwy 84 (name now changed to La Honda Road). We'll stop at the San Gregorio General Store at Stage Road and Hwy 84 for a short break.
From San Gregorio, we go south on Stage Road to the little town of Pescadero (which is a veritable METROPOLIS compared to San Gregorio). Then we head east on Pescadero Road a short ways to Cloverdale Road, where we turn south (right) again. We follow Cloverdale road down to Gazos Creek Road, where we turn west (right).
We follow Gazos Creek Road to Highway 1 where we can take a break. Gas is available here.
Then take a trip down 1 to Davenport, where we stop for lunch. After lunch, it's south on Highway 1 again to Bonny Doone Road, where we turn east (left). Don't turn right there, or you'll be surprised at the lack of floatation a set of air bags provide. ;-)
Up Bonny Doon Road to Smith Grade, right on Smith Grade to Empire Grade. North (left) on Empire Grade to Jamison Creek Road, down Jamison Creek Road to Highway 236. Right on Highway 236 to Highway 9 in Boulder Creek. Another short break in Boulder Creek (gas, if needed), then up Highway 9 (east) to Skyline, where we assemble at the little rest area there for a final meeting. After our meeting and bull session, the group breaks up and everyone is on their own.
The accident happened on Jamison Creek Road.
If anyone reading is from the Bay area. I HIGHLY recommend following this route in your favorite vehicle of choice... Much fun. ...and I'd be happy to join you in my vehicle of choice. We could compare Empegs! (When I get it!)
- Jon
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#12464 - 11/08/2000 14:43
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: schofiel]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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The Eclipse would kick the Bug's butt from a standing start. ;) On the other hand, it probably wouldn't be advised for the Eclipse to contest the Bug on the curvies unless a good aftermarket suspension has been popped onto the Eclipse.
Calvin
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#12465 - 11/08/2000 14:49
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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You guys are in the Bay Area? That's awesome. I zoom down Hwy 84 all the time. It is Awwwwwesome :) i love the cliffs.... Hey throw me an e-mail the next time you're planning a tour. :-)
Calvin
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#12466 - 11/08/2000 14:51
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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True... so what if the Bug has a flower vase, can you beat a sexy hawaiian woman dancing on the dash like my Eclipse? ;-)  Calvin
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#12467 - 11/08/2000 14:58
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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In a way all sports cars are impractical. My philosophy for anything is if you're going to do it, buy it, go for it, go all the way to the extreme. Make no compromises :-)
Assuming that you have a factory stock suspension, then I'd say go test drive a Turbo bug and see what the heck I'm talking about :-). I've since swapped out my suspension with aftermarket stuff -- Eibach Prokits, Tokico Illuminas and RMDSM fat swaybars and I can say now that it can outhandle much of what's out there. On a purely stock comparison, of course the Eclipse turns pretty darn good, but it has a lot of squat, a lot of flex (more so on the droptop), and lots of weight moving all over. The bug from stock is flat and solid, you feel like the whole damn car moves as a piece. The responsiveness is simply not there on the Eclipse. When you want the Eclipse to move, it'll go but not quite as well. And the Eclipse shifter is just, well, sad. There are things on the Bug that rank rightfully with very good sports cars -- dispite that the Bug is not a sports car. :>
Calvin
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#12468 - 11/08/2000 14:59
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I think the Miata is an awesome car. I can carry one in my trunk...
Just kidding, I don't have much of a trunk either.
Calvin
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#12469 - 11/08/2000 15:06
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Hey there you go, ragging on the Neon, the Golf and the PT Cruiser? What the heck man! The Golf = Ordinary, Basically A Bug? I won't go into the Neon and PT Cruiser here because I never drove a PT Cruiser and the rental Neon I used many times is garbage ;) but to say that a golf is an ordinary version of a bug (and I'm thinking GTI VR6) is so completely off target it's almost like you're basing your opinions on magazine analyses. Sheesh! The character of these vehicles vary massively despite the shared platform. You can't immediately discern the relationship purely based on use of the cars. That's opposed to an 95 Eagle Talon and a 95 Eclipse for example. Or a 01 Dodge Stratus and an 01 Eclipse.
Calvin
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#12470 - 11/08/2000 15:09
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: teemcbee]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Eclipses are very problem prone. People drive them very hard. Mitsubishi built them for the purpose of highway passing, and occasional turbo spool up. People end up buying them and stomping and spooling the turbos constantly. The poor stock turbo will eventually wear down and die unless it's well taken care of. Which many people don't. I don't know about build quality of other turbos though...
Calvin
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#12471 - 11/08/2000 15:11
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Laura]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Octane boost isn't worth much. If it says it'll boost the octane 5 points, it means it'll boost your 97 Octane to between 97.3 to 97.7 something like that. Better to get race gas... hmm if the nova can use leaded go for aviation gas.
Calvin
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#12472 - 11/08/2000 15:13
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I was dissapointed they didn't make an AWD spyder.
The standard Infiniti sound system is such utter garbage. It's a 1V system with high levels of noise to signal. I ripped that crap out the second day after I bought the car. I couldn't stand to hear the music mutilated...
Calvin
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#12473 - 11/08/2000 15:17
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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In reply to:
Another short break in Boulder Creek (gas, if needed), then up Highway 9 (east) to Skyline, where we assemble at the little rest area there for a final meeting.
It was a ride (in my Miata) over this bit of road (a part of my commute, actually) that prompted Hugo to say:
In reply to:
Seeing as I've been frightened by your driving in the miata, I think I'd just pass out if you were driving the M coupe over those mountain roads... ;)
Though I don't think you'd have any problem in the coupe; one of my coworkers described a similar ride in the coupe as "relaxing."
I guess it's all a matter of perspective, I would have put blasting through roundabouts on the way back to London in the same category as that run over 9. Hugo and I had the same problem, though, it's very disconcerting being in what we're programmed to believe is the driver's seat, with no steering wheel to hang on to. ;)
(Jon, have we met at the track? I'm one of Aaron's instructors...white '90 w/ blue stripes)
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#12475 - 11/08/2000 15:24
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: n6mod]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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n6mod wrote:
(Jon, have we met at the track? I'm one of Aaron's instructors...white '90 w/ blue stripes)
No, I haven't gone to the track, but I did meet Aaron on that ride. Nice guy. Want to do a track day, but I have a slight problem. Can't put a roll bar in my Miata since I have a subwoofer (JL Audio Stealthbox) on the rear tray. Don't feel safe on a track without a roll bar...
- Jon
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#12476 - 11/08/2000 17:27
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: jbauer]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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I know the problem. I've ultimately come to the conclusion that a good sub installation and a rollbar are mutually exclusive in that car. So the Miata has a marginal sub installation (JL Microsub in the trunk) and a roll bar. The Coupe has a good sub (a pair of JL 8W3's in a custom cabinet) because it doesn't need a rollbar. I've compensated for the marginal stereo in the Miata with a nice, loud exhaust. -Zandr Mk.I #150 Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#12477 - 12/08/2000 04:13
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: teemcbee]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Definitely mexico (well, lots of stuff is stamped mexico, it's possible the final assembly happens in Germany but I seriously doubt it).
It's expensive because they get away with it - most places in the world are more expensive than the US when it comes to cars (and gas, oil, servicing...). You guys just get a quantity dicount ;)
Hugo
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#12478 - 12/08/2000 06:25
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: eternalsun]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/07/2000
Posts: 91
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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> The Golf = Ordinary, Basically A Bug? ......
I happen to own a Volkswagen Beetle (bug) 1300cc -71 model and the new VW Golf V6 -00 model.. (the GTI VR6 no longer exists in production line, GTI does though, V6 has replaced the VR6.. there was some differences I fail to remember at this point) and I must say I cannot find ANY similarities with them. Considering I've whacked the beetle to pieces and back... I trust this is a bit different with new beetle vs. old beetle, there are a lot of them in Finland, I like them even though at first I thought it a horrible rape of the old beetle...but the similarities are slowly sticking out.
To my view the modern day VW Golf is very much close to Audi A3/S3 as Audi and Volkswagen just 'happen' to walk hand in hand these days (same parts used in both cars as they're built up in same factories). What I'm surprised of is that they're actually giving the Golf credits over the little Audis.. with the exception of transmission and brakes. The Audi brand itself makes a nice "bounce" in price when comparing the relative cars VW-Audi wise, for example V6 vs. S3 price difference is (with the additions that I bought) about 17k USD (here in Finland). Oh well, the S3 owners have the 0.3 seconds over me when the streetlights turn green.. maybe I need to get a turbo or two... :) :)
Antti 'Amarth' Luostarinen
#14229 iwishihaditalready
try BatMUD - telnet bat.org
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#12479 - 12/08/2000 06:37
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: Amarth]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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In reply to:
Octane boost isn't worth much. If it says it'll boost the octane 5 points, it means it'll boost your 97 Octane to between 97.3 to 97.7 something like that. Better to get race gas... hmm if the nova can use leaded go for aviation gas.
They do sell some True Blue at the gas station across from the track and I know some good leaded gas is available at the track but I haven't tried either yet since they are pretty expensive. Maybe next week I will try 4 or 5 gallons in the tank to see if it helps the times any better. I did knock off 3/10 of a second this week. Still have some tweaking to do :)
Laura
I live to launch.
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#12480 - 13/08/2000 09:50
Re: VW Bugs
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 483
Loc: Guernsey
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I'm shocked that people will except this as normal??
If my new car (especially if it's from a manufacturer with a good reputation for reliability) was using oil to the point that the oil light came on, I'd return it straight away...
My motorbike however doesn't use any oil at all, and I bet the engine is under more stress than the one in the new bugs... =)
Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)
_________________________
Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 42 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)
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