Noe when its time for the presidential candidates to come forward...... I have to ask you US guys if Ralph Nader is running?? I saw him on some talk shows and the news here in sweden (Back in the last election).... Thought that he appeared somewhat interesting?.... I was wondering if he is running this time? He got like 14-15% now last didnt he? And is he so "good" as he seems..... or is he perhaps a little bit of a fanatic..... I am specificly wondering about his foreign politics.... Has he ever touched that in his debates..... Say.... is he pro war (like som other president...=) ) or is he a strong peace talker?? If I lived in the US he would probably have my vote...... But then again... I havent seen or heard enough from him to actually dare to have an opinion.....

he got like 3 or 4 percent last time. If he is running he doesn't stand a chance.

I didn't have any respect for Nader before he ran, and I don't now, either. And instead we got twit boy, anyway.

How about that Göran Persson...

hehehe...... yeah.... that Göran Persson..... alot can be told about him.... I think actually he is doing a superb job. A real professional..... But thats just my opinion...=)

About Nader..... I thought he got like 13 percent in the candidate election?.... Wasnt it like a boom because he got alot more votes than he was "supposed" to??.... And why dont you guys respect him?..... As I said.... dont know enough about him.... Thats why I kinda want to get up a discussion about him....

edit: By the way..... How come an Amarican like yourself know about Göran?.... Its not like i live in the biggest country in Europe..=)

And is he so "good" as he seems.....

"Good"? Well, I think he has some principles and isn't in the pocket of oil companies......my sense is that he'd probably make a terrible president.....I voted for him.

Yes, life is full of contradictions. I was very weary of "lesser-of-two-evils" voting and decided to give my vote to the party whose platform most closely matched my own. If it had been Bradley versus McCain, maybe I would have voted Bradley.

Nader had no hope in 2000 and will have no hope in 2004 unless some Republican-connected, Nader-forecast catastrophe kills some large proportion of Americans, say one in 10.

Absent some outrage like that, my gloomy prediction is that we will see four more years of Cheney/Bush. People seem to like Bush. Go figure. I don't see anyone emerging from the Democratic squabble who has anything like a strong message.

I say the Dems should draft George McGovern. If anyone is looking for a strong, clear statement of "obsolete" liberal Democratic values, check out his essay in last month's Harpers. I'd vote for him.

I finally started reading Jeffrey Toobin's Too Close To Call about the 2000 election debacle (out in paperback now) Easy and interesting reading so far, albeit a depressing story still.

Yeah.... my guess is that the Bush administration continues.... And thats probably somewhat thanks to the Iraq war.... I think Amareicans have the habit to stand behind their current president during war.... for good and bad.... If you know what i mean....

There was a recap techy program on BBC News 24 the other day, and they had a 2-3 min interview with President Clinton.

He was interviewed outside a building in Australia, evidently going from one function to another and stood and articulated a very sensible and indepth understanding of what IT can do for the world and what access to the Internet has brought.

Bush on the other hand from what I have seen from him on the TV, i doubt can spell IT.

Which is probably why they're waiting so long to go in. They probably want to drag this thing out long enough to get to the next election.

I also haven't seen a democrat that is very presidential in my mind. They sure have paraded out the losers.

I want Clinton back in office. Whatever you have to say about him, any fan of jazz is a friend of mine

I want Clinton back in office.

Be careful what you wish for... You just may get Clinton in office, but probably not the one you're thinking of...

-=Shudder=-

Clinton was the worst president we've ever had.

Just out of interest, of the people who don't vote, who whinges about who's in office?

well..... of course its of interest.... The next president will be the most powerful man in the world..... supreme power laid in one mans hand..... That is NOT a good thing.... Hence I want to know who that next person is.....

4% of the popular vote was for 5 candidates other than Gore and Bush. CNN Results page

I think what the big hoopla was that he was close to winning enough of the popular vote to make either himself or the party eligible for federal campaign funding or something of that nature.

I don't know enough about him, but I think he could be an effective President just because of the fact that most members of Congress probably resent him for one reason or another. Some politicians don't care for the consumer rights advocate type...

About Nader..... I thought he got like 13 percent in the candidate election?.... Wasnt it like a boom because he got alot more votes than he was "supposed" to??.

So did Perot in I guess it was 92, and he didn't capitalize on it either. It's just a matter of whether the left or the right feels discontented this particular election year.

And why dont you guys respect him?
I speak only for me when I say I think he made his name beating on GM over the Corvair, and hasn't done anything particularly commanding of respect since.

How come an Amarican like yourself know about Göran?.... Its not like i live in the biggest country in Europe..=)

Aside from the U.S. I've spent more time in Sweden (about 3 weeks) than all other countries I've been in combined (a few hours in Canada and 2 days in the U.K.). If it were a larger country I might know the leadership anyhow but in this case I guess I pay attention because I have friends there.

His name is sort of etched in my mind since one day on the T-bana I read an article about him in the Metro. (Well, "read" in the sense that I got the gist of it from my almost useless Swedish vocabularly).

Be careful what you wish for... You just may get Clinton in office, but probably not the one you're thinking of...

Her name isn't Bush, so it sounds like a win to me.

Clinton was the worst president we've ever had.

Things worked out really well for me and for most people I know until around when Bush was elected.

You can't blame a downturn in the economy on Bush... There were MANY things affecting the economy, presidential politics among the weakest of those factors. Gimme a break.

Example

He hasn't done anything for me; He hasn't stood up for my rights, shown responsibility in dealing with the rest of the world, or anything else, so I blame him for everything regardless. If you're going to screw me 10 ways, you need to have some redeeming characteristic. What's his?

Don't get me wrong, either. It's not that I'm so much pro-Clinton as "Bush is screwing us all really hard, and I wish he'd stop that."

Just out of interest, of the people who don't vote, who whinges about who's in office?

How about the people that live here in the US that are/were unable to vote? I wasn't here during the last presidential election, and at the time it happened, I thought "who cares". Now I live in the US, and can see what a tool that guy is, and more importantly, can see how he's obliterating pretty much everything that made the US what the US is (unless you're talking about greed). His policies affect me, so I whinge. Now that I have my US citizenship and *can* vote, I look forward to attempting to making him a one-termer.

Seeing the taliban and al qaeda getting hit by a daisy cutter is enough redeeming character for me.

Walking all over other people in addition to walking all over us doesn't really make us any less walked on.

That's why we have tanks and fighter jets.

He's not talking about the military, which is getting along just fine. He's talking about the citizens of the country being walked all over by such asinine policies as the Patriot Act.

Perhaps he was being too sublte for you.

Ding!

Ah, I guess my sarcastic joke was too subtle. I meant we don't have to walk on anyone because we have tanks and planes, so that means we can drive and fly instead.

Ah, I guess my sarcastic joke was too subtle.

Yeah, subtlety is your middle name.

I liked corvairs, even had one. So like the license plate says....

http://home.earthlink.net/~mugrad/corvair.html

Still doesn't get them off my back.

he made his name beating on GM over the Corvair, and hasn't done anything particularly commanding of respect since.

Since? That episode (Corvair bashing) certainly didn't command any of MY respect.

Car & Driver magazine printed frame-by-frame pictures from the movie that Nader used when he demonstrated how unsafe the Corvair was. In those frames, blown up for easy visibility, it was possible to see the position of the driver's hands. What was supposed to be a constant turn on a skidpad resulting in the car overturning, was actually a very concerted effort on the part of the driver, turning rapidly left/right/left to build up enough lateral instability and momentum to cause the car to roll.

Nader used this as a springboard to national recognition and power, and there are few people I respect less.

tanstaafl.

Okay, but can we all at least agree that the Aztek is "ugly at any speed?"

Okay, but can we all at least agree that the Aztek is "ugly at any speed?"

My despair.com calendar has today's date (01/06) marked thusly: "The Aztek, a practical joke between designers at Pontiac, gets way out of hand. (2000)"

A long time ago, someone on this BBS referred to it as the "Asstek", as in: "Dude, your car looks like ass." I've referred to it as the Asstek ever since.

Thanks, Tony, the despair.com calendar is exactly where I stole the idea for that post from.

I didn't say I respected him for that. Without enough research on my own part I decline to form an opinion on the basis, solely, of that issue. I hate him for everything else, isn't that enough??

Clinton was the worst president we've ever had.

Oh, God, why do I do this? I guess I'm just a masochist and in the mood for a little troll-baiting.

He's the worst president because... let's see: He got a blow job in the oval office? [sarcasm]Well, I can certainly understand how anybody who ever got a blow job (OK, let's have a little class here: had fellatio) would certainly, beyond any doubt, be proven incompetent to hold any sort of political office.[/sarcasm]

He's the worst president because... let's see: He was not forthcoming about admitting he got a blow job in the oval office? Well, I can certainly understand how not wanting to discuss intimate personal issues with a gang of bona-fide witch hunters whose sole and absolute guiding principal was political gain (issues that in no way had even the remotest bearing on leadership abilities) would certainly prove beyond any doubt that he was incompetent to hold office. Has any other politician ever told less than the full truth before?

He's the worst president because... let's see: He made and implemented policy decisions that adversely affected national security or the well-being of American citizens? Maybe he took us into a war in the middle east? Hmmm... not that I can recall. But I'm sure that you have done the research and are ready and able to cite lots of specific examples about why "Clinton was the worst president we've ever had. "

Just imagine what would have happened if, the first time someone had made the accusation of sexual impropriety in the Oval Office, ol' Bill had just said, "Yeah -- I got blown right there at my desk. She was great, too. You should be so lucky." Half the people in the country would have hailed him as a hero.

And, just for the record -- I am not a Clinton lover. The last US president I had any real appreciation for died before most of the people on this bbs were even born.

tanstaafl.

And, just for the record -- I am not a Clinton lover. The last US president I had any real appreciation for died before most of the people on this bbs were even born.

Which one?

On that note, I think Jimmy Carter is a great guy, even if he made a poor president.

On that note, I think Jimmy Carter is a great guy, even if he made a poor president.

He certainly could be considered one of the best ex-presidents.

Yes. Why can't we vote for ex-presidents directly, and skip the messy interim 4 to 8 years?

Doug, I admire you for responding to that. I just dismissed the thread for a few days because that post was so dumb.

Besides, he may be a troll, but he's also someone who may believe that he's being spied on in part of some big conspiracy and wants to arm himself accordingly. We're not talking about the brightest bulb.

Okay, Nixon died fairly recently and all the presidents since him are still alive, so that leaves Johnson and earlier. Kennedy? Maybe, but I'm guessing Truman. Much earlier than that and I'm getting awfully close to when I expect you'd be too young to have cared much for being interested in presidents, but I'm guessing as to your age (and assuming that has anything to do with it).

Ooh! No! Wait! It has to be Warren Harding! Potentially more mealymouthed than our current Parsident.

Yes. Why can't we vote for ex-presidents directly, and skip the messy interim 4 to 8 years?




ps-I'm actually a liberal, but I thought the button was funny

Well, I think I'd have to wait to hear who the real^H^H^H^Hvice president was going to be before I decided to vote for him.

I'm still registered Republican but I've become more liberal (not "a" liberal) in the last 5 years. I'd call myself a centrist. Some political quiz I took called me aan authoritarian-leaning centrist.

We're not talking about the brightest bulb.

Don't be so sure about that.

I have exchanged emails and PMs with Paul (our erstwhile troll) and he is actually a pretty bright kid -- the operative word being "kid".

I just think that he tends to post things off the top of his head without giving them any thought.

I doubt very much that he has checked the "I want to preview my post..." box.

tanstaafl.

Conciliator!
Apologist!
Appeaser!

*sigh* OK, where did I leave that dictionary again?

In reply to:

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Clinton was the worst president we've ever had.

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Funny I thought he was a decent president, what got me was the republicans wasting millions to prove he got a bj.... I was more pissed about my tax money being wasted on something so trivial. Say what you will about Clinton, but there certainly was no shortage of jobs when he was in office.

And yeah... I voted for Gore.

I'll give you that. The paranoia thing still puzzles me, though, and scares me because he's out there (if he's serious). I'm glad I live far away from where we decided he probably lives. I feel safer.

I've watched ventura ever since he announced his candidacy for govaner. He hasnt said one thing ive dissagreed with sofar. The ironic proof he would make a good president is, he doesnt want the job.

>duck<

I was discussing Ventura with some people also. It's funny, but the media and everyone always joked around that a wrestler was governor of a state, but that's all that anyone ever joked about. He really didn't give out as much fodder as most public officials, especially Bush jr.

can we all at least agree that the Aztek is "ugly at any speed?"

As long as the Chevy Avalanche gets a solid second place...

I second that.... Ugh.

Ah, I guess my sarcastic joke was too subtle.

Sarcasm works best when the comment is out of line with your usual comments. Which, you have to admit, that wasn't.

Hi, Doug. I don't care about what blowjobs he got, although it does reflect on his character. I didn't say it without much thought; I just didn't explain my entire thought.

He is a proven liar. He sold out to the chinese. He's a traitor. He gave pardons for money. His staff trashed the Whitehouse before leaving. Not only do I not agree with his politics, but he is a dishonest man. When I look at a politcian, first I look at their character, and then I look at their policies.

Just because the economy was in a boom while he was in office doesn't mean he is a great president. It's not like they have an Economic Control Headquarters in Washington DC where the president can just push a few buttons and make the economy go up. And I don't care what anyone says, more taxes does not help the economy at all. I don't agree with any of the economic and social policies of Clinton/Gore/left, but I say he is the worst president because of his blatent dishonesty, and I don't doubt that he did and would again sell out his country. Jimmy Carter was a terrible president, but a least from what i've seen he seems like a decent and honest guy.

Maybe he took us into a war in the middle east? Hmmm... not that I can recall
Nope, but maybe he should have. Then we wouldn't have to be kicking ass right now. Of course, NY and the Pentagon weren't attacked when he was president, but I'm glad we're getting the terrorists now. Al Qaeda, taliban.....and Saddam. The world will be much better off the day Saddam is put in front of a firing squad and shot in the head.

Plus, Clinton signed the ridiculous Assault Weapon Ban in 1994 which pisses me off. But, it is set to expire in '04, and hopefully G dawg W won't sign it if it is repassed.

the operative word being "kid"

yup

he's also someone who may believe that he's being spied on in part of some big conspiracy and wants to arm himself accordingly. We're not talking about the brightest bulb.

You got me this time, man. I held myself together through all of your previous insults, but now I'm crying. I don't know if I want to live now. You accomplished your goal, so you can rest assured. But seriously, Dignan, it's getting kind of old. It's obvious that you have some self-esteem issues, and you need someone who you can feel like you're better than to get a boost of confidence so you can make it through the day . You also like to pull the old beat-up-on-Yz33d trick to try to gain acceptance with your online buddies, and maybe someone likes you a little more now after reading your clever insults. There's no need for any of this nonsense.

The paranoia thing still puzzles me, though, and scares me because he's out there (if he's serious). I'm glad I live far away from where we decided he probably lives. I feel safer.

It sounds like your the one who's paranoid. But I guess if my "bulb was a little brighter" I would've known not to post a joke on here or someone might take it too seriously. Actually Dignan, I am an escapee from a guatamalan insane asylum, and I'm hiding near Washington, DC. I like to stalk people who play instruments in organized musical bands. I've had my eye on you for some time now

kid

I don't think you're that much older than me, big guy.

That's an old picture, smartass.

How old are you?

About 10 years older than that picture

Well I guess you could say we're from the same generation. I'm 20 years old.

Actually Dignan, I am an escapee from a guatamalan insane asylum, and I'm hiding near Washington, DC. I like to stalk people who play instruments in organized musical bands. I've had my eye on you for some time now

Can we ban this jackass based on implied threats of violence?

Stalking dosen't imply violence, foo.

>It's obvious that you have some self-esteem issues

Pot, Kettle, Black.

hmm...there seems to be alot of war enthusiasts out there.... I would like to see you guys in a war...... Or some invading army coming and attacking YOUR house...... its very easy to be cocky when you are behind an army...instead of in it!....

"We strive in the battle of complexity endeavored with the front of illusionary shadows that we see as ourselves."

-d33zY, on bullshit.

"You are not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis."

- Tyler Durden

In reply to:

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Stalking dosen't imply violence, foo.

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Alright Mr. T Stalkers aren't normally violent or anything....

He's just wasting your time. He should have been banned (again) long ago. Try to ignore him.

Let's all take a step back and assess the seriousness, the consequences, the implications... of that post.......in this thread........on this BBS.......on the internet............................ The world hangs in the balance.

Come on, man. Lighten up.

I like to stalk people who play instruments in organized musical bands.

As opposed to, say,. disorganized roving bands of hoodlums?

Halfway through typing that Tony's "Don't feed the trolls" post kept rattling in my head. Can't resist the urge to throw out a Mr. T joke when I can, but I'll try to restrain myself from now on.

You got it.

No, lopan. Just let it all out. Say what you wanna say. It ain't gonna hurt anything.

As opposed to, say,. disorganized roving bands of hoodlums?

I suppose I could become a minstrel

In reply to:

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No, lopan. Just let it all out. Say what you wanna say. It ain't gonna hurt anything.

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Well, Ok.... You sure? Well, since we're on the subject of Mr. T and presidential elections I think Mr. T in 2004 would frickin Rock!

You sure you'd want to be one of those, I from what I heard, those cramps are a killer...Oh wait, I misread that one

Halfway through typing that Tony's "Don't feed the trolls" post kept rattling in my head.

It's one of those Zen things, I guess. If Yz33d makes a post, and wfaulk doesn't read it, is it still a troll?

Peter

Hmm.... maybe it's a Shroedinger situation, and will eventually give rise to a new pastime called Quantum Trolling.

Some of Yz33d's posts are trolls, and some aren't. But until someone reads them, they both are and are not, and the acting of reading one makes it decide.

It would be really sweet if the board had a killfile, and we could just choose to exclude his posts.

For the record, before this became a flame war, I agreed with the vast majority of what Yz33d said in his last relevant post. (mainly the second paragraph)

*edit*
forget it, I'm out of this one. I just find it hard to believe Clinton was the worst president we've had.
*edit*

the worst president we've had

I think the evenhanded position here is the one spelled out in http://www.theonion.com/onion3845/report_presidents_lied.html ...

Peter

PS. And you could do the same for UK prime ministers, of course.

Thank you, the Onion. That is exactly what I was going to say.

Heh. Typically it's not the presidents that bother me so much as the people they surround themselves with. For example, there was Nixon with Kissinger and McCarthy. Now there's Bush with people like Pointdexter, and Kissinger (again).

With them, Bush is dumb *and* evil. Without them, he'd just be dumb -- kinda like Jean Chretien.