i seem to recall that new product(s) were going to be revealed once CES starts, which is today. wondering if its going to take place any time soon. most likely why empeg.com got updated, right?

I hope it's some sort of iPod killer or a new car product. Either of those would be cool.

According to a post here, it is probably an OEM automotive product.

Marius (Escort Cab + MArk II)

I know, I'm just hoping because once Rob mentioned this.

I don't think anything like that will be on the show floor..

Damn, that's something I'm really waiting for...oh well...the year is still young...

I don't think anything like that will be on the show floor..

translation from rob-speak: you'd have to break your way into the hospitality suite to see it.

--dan.

Note the phrasing: "don't think" and not "know" or something similar.
Sounds like such an Ipod killer is in the pipeline, but nowhere near complete enough to show at CES.

What is the software like on the Rio Riot and S series? I presume neither has the processing power yet to approach the empeg-level of software sophistication?

To get an Ipod-killer, you would need:
1. Small size (S Series)
2. Large capacity (Rio Riot)
3. Better interface (Empeg)
And possibly other new features, all in one package. The main hindrence is the storage medium. Something as good as or better than Ipod's hard drives needs to be found.

-Biscuits

Pray tell, might this be the announcement?

In reply to:

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Portable Video Players
Some buzz has been generated by the possibility of a first look at a joint product by ReplayTV-maker SONICblue (Quote, Company Info) and Intel (Quote, Company Info): a ReplayTV Portable Video Player (PVP) that will allow users to store television programs transferred from ReplayTV, as well as video, audio and photos transferred from a PC, and play the content while on-the-go. First announced in September, the walkman-sized ReplayTV PVP would have a 4-inch screen and a hard drive large enough to store about 10 hours worth of video content.

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as found in this article? Hmm... Tasty.

I remember when that was first announced, but is it really an Ipod-killer?

I'm really not sure how they think we'll use those things though. I know I won't watch a full-length movie on one. If I want to do that, I'll use a real TV, or, at worst, a laptop or car screen. There won't be many games for it either, not with gameboy having a stranglehold on the market. Wireless web browsing would be interesting, but that is still limited at present and the phone/PDA makers expect to corner that market.

When I am out of the house, I am very rarely in a situation where I could use one of these. I don't think the cops would appreciate me driving while watching one, nor do I think my professors or boss would like me using it on their time....

-Biscuits

> The main hindrence is the storage medium. Something as good as or better than Ipod's hard drives needs to be found.

Well there is the 4GB microdrives that Dignan17 brought up the other day, and the CF solid state 1GB cards, but after having my 60Gig Empeg, even the 20GB that 1.8 drives gives me is going to seem a tad constraining (and pgrzelak is going to be SOL for a long time. ). I think any iPod killer is going to have to stick with those drives for the foreseeable future.

I can't be sure, but I think Apple is making a killing off every iPod it sells, considering you can now get a 20G Riot for less than half the price of a same-sized iPod. Of course, Toshiba does not release pricing of their 1.8inch drives anywhere AFAIK, so you can't really know, but given Apple's history I would suspect that they are charging quite a bit more than it needs to be. Any iPod killer would be a good thing because it would force Apple's prices down. Of course, one with a cool interface put together by a certain group of people in England would be ideal.

I can't be sure, but I think Apple is making a killing off every iPod it sells, considering you can now get a 20G Riot for less than half the price of a same-sized iPod

Doubtful. When the first iPod shipped with 5gb of storage, it was retail $399. Toshiba PCMCIA 5gb drives were also retail $399.

> When the first iPod shipped with 5gb of storage, it was retail $399. Toshiba PCMCIA 5gb drives were also retail $399.

True, but that price is retail, and it was a PCMCIA card and not a bare drive. It would be interesting to see what they charge for those bare drives, it being undoubtedly the lion's share of the total cost of the unit, but I looked all over the Internet and couldn't find, and I doubt Toshiba would tell me if I called them up and asked.

Hmm, might it be "Project Perl"?

Is that like "Sed Jam"?

Wow, I would be so all over that if I could buy one now.

Now that sounds like a darned cool product. July or August most likely? Maybe I won't feel so broke then...
I just spent a bundle of cash on replacing my Empeg, and buying a ReplayTV to go with my Go.Video DVD player and Rio Receiver.

I'm hoping the price goes down considerably on the smaller units. $200 for 10 gB is about my indifference point.

-Biscuits

Wow, that indeed sounds like a VERY sweet player! I sure hope the software it runs is from the hands of the Cambridge guys.

I had NO IDEA they were going to announce those projects without NDA!

There are some factual errors in the article, but in those cases the actual spec is better than stated. Don't worry, Pearl does NOT run the Riot software, although it has an evolved version of the Riot UI (which is actually very nice). The software is based on the post-2.0 empeg codebase, with some very sweet new features (such as the cross fader which was mentioned in the article, and Ogg Vorbis support which was not).

The photos don't really demonstrate scale. To put it in context, the Pearl player (the one with the bright organge rotary control in the corner) is about two thirds the length of an iPod, and a little wider. It's very small!

The tiny 1.5GB player is based on the S-Series software with better database for music selection. It's about the same physical size as an S50 and uses some brand new miniature hard drive technology.

So now it's out - these are the two projects that are occupying most of our time at the moment. In my rather biased opinion they are both going to be absolutely killer products - but Pearl is the one that car player owners are going to want

Unfortunately you're going to have to wait a few months!

Rob

I'm hoping the price goes down considerably on the smaller units. $200 for 10 gB is about my indifference point.

You missed the point - that product is the same size as a flash player, but with twelves times more storage. If you put the biggest SD card you can get into a flash model you'd still only have a third as much storage and it would have cost two to three times more than the miniature hard disk model.

You're paying for the form factor. If you don't mind the player being a bit bigger then Pearl clearly offers more bang per buck. Personally I can think of applications for both of them.

Rob

Rob, if you don't mind my asking, could you explain a little more about the display on the Pearl? Like, uh, well, why does it look so crappy?

Is this a new info mode (perhaps called Segmented LCD/No Dot Matrix Here)?

I'm pretty sure that's a piece of cardboard in the photos.

The real display looks very cool.

..and Toby has contributed

Rob

That sound you just heard is a collective sigh of relief. I now seriously can't wait to see this thing in person.

I didn't realize it was quite that small. The main things are storage space and interface for me, although size and weight are also important.

There were several products shown in that article, with prices estimated (although the writer did not say who did the estimating!).

Pearl 20 gB $400 (July-August)
Pearl 40 gB $500 (July-August)
"Slicky" 1.5 gB $300
"Slicky" 1.5 gB exec. $350
s20 USB Bullet 128 mB $130
s20 USB Bullet 256 mB $175

Two most interesting:
Pearl 20 gB $400
"Slicky" 1.5 gB $300

Current Product Pricing
Ipod 6 gB $300
Ipod 10 gB $400
Ipod 20 gB $500
S - ? with ? for 1 gB upgrade

My indifference point (seems like I'll have to wait quite a while longer or settle for something inferior)
10 gB - $200
20 gB - $300

The estimated prices are about 20% cheaper than the current Ipod pricing. I wonder if prices will plummet with about 10 companies all releasing their products at the same time (bad for Sonicblue but good for customers). That is, of course, unless Pearl ends up carving a niche out as the performance player, which the others cannot touch.

I haven't played with the Ipod much, but it doesn't compare to the empeg software sophistication.

-Biscuits

Awesome. Wow, I wish for something on these boards, and within 12 hours I am informed it is coming true.

6 months though...sigh. <Veruca>I want one NOW!!!</Veruca>

The software is based on the post-2.0 empeg codebase, with some very sweet new features (such as the cross fader which was mentioned in the article, and Ogg Vorbis support which was not

[whiny kid]when are we gonna get those?[/whiny kid]

I'm hoping the price goes down considerably on the smaller units. $200 for 10 gB is about my indifference point.

You missed the point"
Well, not really. This seems like an Ipod killer and I want one. It is similar in size (few people realize how small those things are), and better in storage and features, as well as being lower in price. It should steal a lot of market share. My point, however, was that the prices are still too steep for me (one person) to buy, not that these things wouldn't sell like hot cakes, with good reason.

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6 months though...sigh. <Veruca>I want one NOW!!!</Veruca>

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Quiet down there young whippersnapper, some of us old timers 'round this 'ere BBS, had to wait much longer than 6 months for our right to purchase some new-fangled technology from the hands of Hugo, Rob and company.

And we paid a lot more for it too!

In 6 months or so, you'll be able to buy 1 each of all the most expensive types of products mentioned in this thread and still have change left over compared to what we paid for our original Mk1 or Mk2 empegs.

I never have change left over; I spend it on something else.

Its good to hear that the actual display would be better, becuase the ones in the photo, are well, disappointing - not even up to Rio SXX standard.

BTW: I *love* the idea/concept that I can use it in my left hand and the display can be rotated by 90 degrees as well - not everyone in the world is right handed, and finding a concsumer elecronic product that caters for left handed people is a refeshing change. question though - does the "play/stop/rewind etc" pad rotate as well or are we lefties stuck with a different arrangement of control there?


I have question though - the article on the Pearl at ign mentions a Ethernet docking station being available [I assume its an optional extra].
Is this a 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s connection - I'd assume 100Mbs as you support USB2 with its high speed capabilities.

Also, will the Pearl be able to store files other than mp3/ogg files?
This feature would be very useful as a large portable hard disk drive ala the iPod and would be what would make me me buy one.

Wow! This looks really cool! Great job guys!

The left handed mode rotates through 180 degrees, and remaps all of the controls correspondingly. This feature might have something to do with a certain empeg founder being left handed

The Ethernet docking station is standard as far as I know, and is 100Mbit. We have some neat features lined up for this, and empeg owners will be familiar with some of them already

A file taxi is included, yes.

I don't want to go into much more detail now as it will spoil the surprises!

Rob

I KISS YOU!

Finally a gadget that works left handed. My roommates were seriously worried I was gonna load up a machine gun and go storming into a computer company with it if ONE MORE RIGHT HANDED ONLY gadget was released.

Thankfully, the empeg guys pulled through.

A few mouse makers are gonna get it though. The right handed regime angers me.

In reply to:

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The left handed mode rotates through 180 degrees, and remaps all of the controls correspondingly. This feature might have something to do with a certain empeg founder being left handed

The Ethernet docking station is standard as far as I know, and is 100Mbit. We have some neat features lined up for this, and empeg owners will be familiar with some of them already

A file taxi is included, yes.

---

Right,

I want one - how & where to do I sign up/pre-register to join the queue to get my hands on the most expensive model then?

While you're holding back a few surprises, this little add-on for the iPod has been released by Griffin Technology - the guys who make that really cool Volume Knob with the blue LEDs , the Griffin PowerMate.

Follow the link for the info in the iTrip FM transmitter module for the iPod.

Whats really cool about this design is that its self-powered from the iPod [via the headphone socket] and you select the FM frequency to broadcast by "playing" certain files to the unit - very,very clever. It also "powers down" the FM transmitter after 30 seconds of silence - e.g. when you stop playing.

This could be one cool add-on for the "Pearl" - of course, you may already be planning such capabilities...

... If not, then maybe its not too late to look at something like this as a after market add-on.

Don't know anyone that wants to buy a riot do you

Here's a better image.

I am with you. I have an S50 that might come up for sale in a few months...

...another in that series of product shots showing unlikely tracks playing...

Here's a better image.

Any chance of a pic with something else in the frame for size comparisons? I know it is supposed to be roughly the size of an iPod, but the curves and squarer shape make it look bigger I think. Would be interesting to see it in comparison to a deck or cards or something like that (or an iPod even).

OK, here's a comparison, but it's not an official SONICblue image. I believe I have it approximately correct. Pearl is shorter than the iPod, but slightly wider and about the same thickness as the 20GB model.

One area where the Pearl can't compete with the iPod is the styling. Is that the final "look" for the Pearl ?

P.S. Rob, try not to have flashbacks to the Mk2 fascia "unveiling"...

In fact it's the first hard model. Colours and materials are subject to change, but the shape is likely to remain the same. From experience the final product always looks about 100% better than the first hard model, and in this case I think the model already looks quite good.

There's no point trying to beat the iPod in minimalist styling - I don't see how it could ever be improved upon. May as well go for something different..

Rob

From experience the final product always looks about 100% better than the first hard model

That's true enough, I hated (and that is not an exageration) the first Mk2 pictures, now I love it.

There's no point trying to beat the iPod in minimalist styling - I don't see how it could ever be improved upon. May as well go for something different..

Boo! Is that the attitude that brought us the "Dog Bone" styling of the Riot? Ick! I am very interested in how this device pans out, but the goof-ball shape is going to make it near impossible to find any sort of aftermarket case that works.

I think Creative had it down. I didn't like the Nomad Jukeboxes too much, but the portable CD player shape instantly had hundreds of carrying case / car mount options. Even my somewhat homely Archos fits nicely in a variety of digital camera cases...

Blast you Rob. You keep tempting me with a product I'll have to wait 6 months for and will STILL be out of my price-range.

-Biscuits

but the goof-ball shape is going to make it near impossible to find any sort of aftermarket case that works.


Can you say "Business Opportunity" ?

Rob, I can’t believe you used a US Quarter in your comparison!

You better be careful, if you keep that behavior up, somebody might mistake you for a yank...

here's a comparison

Cool. It is definitely smaller than it looks*. I am not crazy about that styling either, but I think this is going to be one of the things that I should see in person before making up my mind. Thanks for the pic.

-Mike

* So I have Tony educating me on the finer points of audio pitch and frequency in the other forum, who wants to be the first to explain that something can't be "smaller than it looks" in this one? ;-)

It seems like this will be another great product killed by poor styling. I think I am going to stay with my open source Archos Recorder. Hack the source at rockbox.haxx.se

I don't like the '1970s' orange and black colours - On either of those products. Slicky sounded *great* till I saw the picture. It could be a REAL killer product if it was attractive. Thats where ipod wins, and the s series of rio players. Maybe its just me though.

It's not just you, the S series look far more sexy.

Didn't I read somewhere that one of them was going to be offered in brushed aluminum?

Sexy ALWAYS wins, *especially* if its marketed correctly. Why do companies not learn this? It doesn't make one shred of difference to Johhny Consumer how many gb it has, or how good the software is, because if it looks like crap, it'll get left on the shelf.

You'd have thought Sonicblue would have learned that lesson. I thought it had with the S series. Take the Empeg - by far and away the best car stereo ever to grace this planet. Even I have to admit though, its not really attractive, and my friends prefer their sony CD players because they look better. The niche market just couldn't support it - will the same thing happen to these new products?

To offer a contrasting opinion, I believe this is much better looking than the iPod. Sure, I'm one of those guys who has owned closets full of Apple products, and thinks everything to come out of Cupertino is the bees knees, but for some reason, large expanses of white just don't do it for me. I'm looking for something smaller to replace my PJB-100, and unless there's some catastrophe (product never released, battery life of 40 minutes, plays everything in mono, etc.), this really looks like the device for me.

Now, to switch to another topic, is there any chance this is running Linux, or is it regular old embedded device development, like on the S series?

Even I have to admit though, [the empeg is] not really attractive, and my friends prefer their sony CD players because they look better.

While I don't think that the empeg is very attractive either, this is what they think is attractive?

Haha, well i'm not saying that all sony, kenwood etc cd players are attractive. Some are down right tacky.

Edit: Sorry for referrring to Empeg as 'it' in my last post!!

`It' is perfectly reasonable; I just wanted to be clear in my quote by not having an indefinite antecedent, and using more of your text just to get that context seemed excessive.

Edit: I misspelled anticedent. It was a typo or a braino, I swear. I really know how to spell antecedent.

by not having an indefinite anticedent

...or an indefinite antecedent?

I have to say, I think that the Empeg MkII is significantly more attractive than any other car stereo I have seen on the market today. Most aftermarket stereos look like tacky mobile discos with far too many buttons. The Empeg's understated looks and large, clear display are much better than this.

Personally, I prefer simple yet elegant. The empeg appearance meets these criteria, whereas most aftermarket stereos are just gaudy.

-Biscuits

But did you buy it for looks? (forget technical specs for the moment) Or has it grown on you? I certainly did not buy it for the looks but for what it could do.

Its lack of buttons is a bonus, but I think it looks a hell of a lot nicer with the aftermarket aluminium fascia.

Rob, the four little buttons on this Intel/SB prototype looked suspiciously similar to a Mark 1. Would we find some familiar disk caching and menuing code under the hood?

I did not buy it for looks, but I certainly would have thought twice if it was as gaudy as many products on the market. Besides, it is quite an advantage to have it match my Ford Explorer with the smooth black finish and blue screen.

I recently got some weights to start lifting and books on how to use them. Unfortunately, the text always seems to go like this:

"If you were to do X reps with X percent of your max weight, you would build endurance, but little muscle mass. On the other hand, if you were to do X reps with X percent, you would greatly increase strength. Instead, I'm going to show you how to build mass without significantly increasing either."

If that is the case, why not just get implants? I'd rather be twice as strong or have twice the endurance than twice as bulky.

Form over function or function over form?

-Biscuits

I don't know whether this has been considered, or whether it's too late in the development cycle to do so...

What are the chances for a replaceable outer shell, as is common in the cellphone market? If it meant that the unit was a couple of mm larger in all dimensions, then that'd be an acceptable tradeoff IMO.

Then you'd just need to sell a couple of other shells to promote the idea, give/license the CAD/CAM files for the shell to a couple of the aftermarket cellphone shell suppliers, and Bob's your Uncle. Red, Blue, Silver, White, Carbon Fiber, wood effects, green with pink polka dots, you name it...someone will want it. If done well, it could become a major marketing win over the Ipod - especially since it'll especially attract the consumer that is less likely to be concerned about the technical wins.

I think that it's fair to say that the volume of these units that you can expect to sell will support such an idea.

The big question is whether it'd also be easy to replace the thumbwheel and buttons?

...although I'd draw the line at embedding flashing garish LEDs into the shells...

I'd actually like to chrome-plate the existing face for my empeg, but if I toast it then I have to get an entirely new face...

I managed to get a new facia for my MKII from support just before Christmas as the cleaner managed to drop the Empeg on the floor (only damage was to the facia where 2 of the screws go through).

I only paid 10 (OK, who stole my UK pound key, damn US keyboard) including delivery to the US.

Umm, goof ball? Sorry you don't like it, but we think it looks good, especially when made with suitably cool materials. The #1 design goal was to avoid the ID mistakes of the Riot!

I'm not sure if you realise how small this product is - a CD player shape would be totally inappropriate!

Rob

Oh, you meant carry case, rather than business case!

I'm sure it'll come with a purpose made carry case. The Riot and S series do.

Rob

Out of curiosity, who does your product design these days? Is it you guys, or internal to SB, or SB hired contractors, or contractors you hired? (Or none of the above?)

It seems like this will be another great product killed by poor styling. I think I am going to stay with my open source Archos Recorder./

If we can't make it look better than the Archos I may shoot myself.

Rob

Out of curiosity, who does your product design these days? Is it you guys, or internal to SB, or SB hired contractors, or contractors you hired? (Or none of the above?)

Surely you know it's all done by Patrick's cat now ?

I thought everyone knew that.

Yeah, might be worth asking. Hmmm.

Out of curiosity, who does your product design these days

We use specialist industrial design companies. Pearl and Slate were designed by one of the best in the business. Hopefully more people will like it when they see the actual metal, rubber and plastic materials that we will be using in production.

Rob

Yeah, and the most important thing, because it's not tacky and flashy, it doesn't draw attention to itself. If it was more "attractive", it would also be attracting thieves. The empeg almost looks 100% stock in my car, which makes me less worried about having it ripped off in the odd chance that I leave it in the dash.

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but for some reason, large expanses of white just don't do it for me

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Large expanses of white to me say "THX-1138"

Well... "Goof Ball" may have been a little harsh.

While I think the iPod looks far too much like it belongs in the perfume department of Nordstrom's, the minimalist styling is important. My personal opinion is the groovy, funky, organic shapes that SonicBlue has been using in their portables recently screams of "LOOK! WE'RE HIP! NO, REALLY..." (Although I will give you the S series look to be designed mainly for hand-held use while exercising.)

My main concern is it functions well, and the styling doesn't get in the way of use. The simple shape of the iPod and the Archos makes it easy to find aftermarket cases and straps in a variety of sizes. The "OEM" cases packaged with most players I've found to be either of shoddy manufacture to keep costs down, or so specific to be inflexible. My Archos case is not big enough to carry my headphones in their protective clamshell for instance... but I can get a number of different cases that would work great at the local camera store.

To be honest, the best "OEM" case I've used is the one for the Empeg. I wish it were a little larger to carry more connectors and the power supply. And who's idea was it for the pocket to open on the bottom when using the side handle? tsk tsk tsk...

The Pearl design is based on ergonomic principles. Hands are not rectangular.

The cases for portables tend to be designed for protection while the unit is in use (controls accessible and screen viewable) rather than plain transportation of the unit and its accessories. I can see how a second type of case (similar to a camera case) would be useful.

Rob

Okay you said one of the best so is that patrick or not and is there silly messages in it

Umm, we're talking about Industrial Design - Patrick doesn't do that.

The electronic design was largely in-house. Patrick was not involved so there are unlikely to be any silly messages at all unfortunately.

Rob

Most aftermarket stereos look like tacky mobile discos with far too many buttons. The Empeg's understated looks and large, clear display are much better than this.

Uhhhh, yeah. What he said.

tanstaafl.

Looks great I can't wait for this to come out. And I hope to god it won't use anything from Real.

i second the Real comment.

*crosses fingers that this thing will bring emplode like tools for Riot use as well*

I think it will include one or two surprises in that department.

Rob

Expect a thank you letter from Kelly. hahah.

OK, I think it looks pretty effen sweet. How 'bout a trade up special for all of us loyal riot early adopters?

Will it be compatible with the RIO Central upon release?

I'll see what we can do with the Central, but keep in mind that the player has USB 2 and 100Mbit Ethernet so the Central won't be the fastest option for populating it. Of course if all your music is on the Central then that's immaterial.

Rob

I would have thought support for all the new portables would be added to the rio central. (maybe it's dying )

We did add support for the portables since the Central was released, but unfortunately it is taking a long time to get it through QA. We seem to have introduced some new bugs in the Receiver server which we have to fix before the update can be released. This is a live and official project, though!

The issue with Pearl isn't really compatibility (although the protocol is substantially changed) - it's just that the speed will be limitted by the Central hardware. We can't do anything about that. There's no point connecting a 100Mbit Ethernet adapter to USB 1.1.

Rob

A good example of a horrible OEM case is the one that came with my iPaq. It had a bad design and felt tacky.

I'm not too keen on cases which have a huge logo stamped on the outside. It's like a huge sign that says I've got some expensive bit of gear in here so mug me now!

- Trevor

I don't care about the speed I am still trying to fulfill my dream of having home, car, and portable players that contain all my cd's and are synchronized without having to take vacation time ripping and retagging tracks.

The only time the speed would be an issue to me is when you do the first huge upload (So I just let it run overnight big deal) after that it would just be one cd at a time.

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The Pearl design is based on ergonomic principles. Hands are not rectangular.

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However the fabric that makes up my pants pocket are a certain size, and they are rectangular. This is why something like the ipod is such a success and the riot is not. If it does not fit nicely in your pocket, then you are requiring the user to either have a back pack, sachel, purse, bag, or dork-holster. Most people I know who have a portable hard drive player have an ipod, and most people keep them in their pocket. Make it comfortable in the pocket and you have a winner.

-eric

But then there are the months and years the rest of us have waited....

I agree. I've put it in my M3 and I get compliments all the time. It not only matches the car well, it helps give it 'character'. I have another friend with an M, 2 years newer than mine, but people have said (unprompted) that they think mine is better. The only differce on the inside is the seat style, and the empeg. I know they're not talking about the seats.
(oh, I forgot mine also has wood...) blarg.

The empeg makes the cars interior much more interesting. It's better than anything else I could put in that spot.

We're talking about a very small bit that sticks out of the right hand side; it's a matter of a few millimetres, and won't stop it from fitting into a suitably-sized generic carry case (IMHO). It's not hanging an inch out of the side, for example.

Then again, I've only seen the CAD and not any hard models.

Hugo

In reply to:

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then you are requiring the user to either have a back pack, sachel, purse, bag, or dork-holster.

---

Hey who you calling a [realization] dork? Ok never mind... [/realization}

I think the thing looks just fine, with the exception of that orange, which I can't imagine them not changing. Of course, I may be wierd because I have never liked the iPod white thing in any event.

Rob, why is the screen color blue in that picture but white on the other ones? Do you know which one it is going to end up being?

Rob... PLEASE change that orange!

The screen is backlit blue, like the S Series.

Rob

I agree on the orange bit. That really ought to be changed.

As far as size, even being wider than the Ipod, Isn't this device still small enough that you could fit it in a pocket with ease?

-Biscuits

> OK, here's a comparison, but it's not an official SONICblue image. I believe I have it approximately correct.

Sorry to be so picky Rob, but that image is a bit off. The iPod is 4.02 inches tall, and a quarter is about 15/16 of an inch, so it should be a tad over 4 quarters high.

But in any event, leaving the quarter out of it and just going by the size comparisons between the iPod and the Pearl, it looks like a size of 2.75 inch wide at the bottom and and just shy of 3 1/4 inch tall (and presumbly just short of 0.8 inch deep). That will fit in a shirt pocket, though perhaps a bit snug (depending on the pocket)

Hmm, how you guys keep your head straight when it comes to inches, quarter of inches and such, I don't know. I'm glad we're blessed with cm and mm here in most of europe.

TommyE

Conditioning. I'll admit that the metric system is probably much better, but I still have trouble dealing with relative sizes in metric and have to convert them to English measures in my head.

Yeah, metric is cool and all, as factors of ten are generally a good idea, but it is way too late for America now. They tried to change us to metric while back, but it failed miserably.

In that event then, the Pearl looks to be about 68 mm wide, 82 mm tall, and just shy of 20mm thick. Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to me of course.

The height of Pearl is 80.5mm.

I spent ages trying to scale everything just right in Photoshop. I even measured a quarter I happened to have on my desk. Maybe I screwed it up, I'll check tomorrow. It looks about right visually though.

Rob

> The height of Pearl is 80.5mm.

Cool, I was pretty close then. Did I get the width and depth right too?

Man, the Pearl is small all right. I made a quick little mockup of this thing, and it is tiny.

I have a new dream. I want one of these bad boys. Rob, need any testers?

So that makes it half the size of a pack of cigarettes?

I don't smoke, but such a comparison would put things in perspective.

-Biscuits

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I have a new dream. I want one of these bad boys. Rob, need any testers?

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After me, please.
I said I'd buy one before you did - got the money right here.

I'm in position number 6 (of course!) in the unofficial queue to buy one.

So I think I'm entitled to test one before you :-))

Change the orange it horrible

Jumping into this thread a bit late, but...

Gimmie gimmie gimmie. Definately *want*

Will they be released globally at the same time, or will those Yanks get their paws on it first? Or will it be released over here in Blighty first?

Hey, Jim,
I know its off topic to this thread, but are you planning to come the Rally of New Zealand still - or have you postponed that pending the outbreak of hostilities with your credit card company?

what he said, lose the orange
Its like so, 70's

I thought 70s retro was "in" at the moment

Maybe it is at Empeg house, or whatever SB call Cambridge these days.

Not round here.

In any case, if their design consultants are so-up-to-the-minute, then they'd know that by the time this releases Orange will be so old hat.

Probably the best answer is as someone suggested, removeable covers ala cell phones so we can all personalise our Pearls the way we like.

The design house know what the fashion will be in six months time

(or maybe they plan to create one?)

Ok, rob can you get them to tell me what colour will be the new black?

number6 - you seem to have stolen my car

I quite like the orange.

Maybe I should seek professional help...

number6 - you seem to have stolen my car

I highly doubt that. He's had that same car since 1967.

Hey, Jim,
I know its off topic to this thread, but are you planning to come the Rally of New Zealand still - or have you postponed that pending the outbreak of hostilities with your credit card company?

Well, I have the ticket, but it isn't so much hostilities with the credit card company as it is the question of whether the truce with my employer continues to hold!

I will probably wait until early March and stick my finger in the wind at that time - chat with my boss. If a new project came up that kept me here (and employed!) in April, I'd probably just have to turn the ticket back in....

> So that makes it half the size of a pack of cigarettes?

Kinda. It is about 25% wider than a pack of (American) regular cigarettes, and a bit shorter, and roughly as thick. And it looks smaller because of all the rounded parts.

The best analogy I could come up with is that it is about as wide and tall as a dollar bill folded in half (or half a 100 Euro note for you Old World people).

Again, let me reiterate; until Rob says otherwise I am just making guesses here.

Us old World people don't have those funny Euro things. Our money still has the Queen's head on.

Well, my picture is of the original Lotus 7 from you know what from 1966/67 when it was filmed.

Its driven by you know who and was lifted from the opening shots that appear in every episode (check the URL for the picture and it show this I t'ink) [I got this from the DVD set].

I don't mind if you use your car picture (wait, you already do).

I don't think anyone would get confused between us ...

- my posts are generally much too long winded and off topic to be confused with anyone elses.

And no I don't own a 7.

Oh yeah... What's the engine number?!

461034TZ

Our money still has the Queen's head on

Ours does too (the king's head that is)... every country has it's own set of Euro's, but all are of equal value in all the Euro-supporting countries.
This soon turned into a new hobby for the collectors : to collect every piece of Euro money from all different Euro countries.
I hear the ones of Vatican City are the hardest to come by.

Heh...

Do you have trouble with it overheating in traffic?

Sorry.. I'm done... hee.

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Do you have trouble with it overheating in traffic?

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I don't but my car does.

I hear the ones of Vatican City are the hardest to come by.

That's not what local criminals would say...

Peter

That's not what local criminals would say...

That's just plain stupid! Don't those criminals know that God is watching them?

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That's just plain stupid! Don't those criminals know that God is watching them

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Ah, yes, but they are a God-less lot, those Vatican Criminals...

It's not surprising the crime rate is so high when "insulting the police and civil servants" is a crime!

It's not surprising the crime rate is so high when "insulting the police and civil servants" is a crime!

Huh? In most countries I know of, both insulting the police and insulting civil servants (often: any fellow human being) is a crime. With the penalty for insulting policemen or other government officials is usually punished more severely than insulting others.

cu,
sven

Sorry Rob,

I think I am keeping my iPod.

Honestly though, it seems like a decent product that hopefully will have the iPod beat in terms of feature set and pricing structure.

When is RIO coming out with the next Empeg?

> Do you have trouble with it overheating in traffic?

Not anymore

My apologies, I've never heard of that before! But as they say - ignorance of the law is no excuse!

Cheers.

Hey, Rob,

Is there any update on the availability of the Pearl? I'm going to be in the US in late March, you see, and if they happened to be out then I would be able to save a little on shipping and/or get the thing earlier.

*craves Pearl*

*gets in queue*

TIA,

Paul

Last I saw, the projected availability was June / July.

I am also extremely interested in the Pearl.
I'm thinking of replacing my aging PJB100 and cant wait to get the Pearl.

But as I live in Switzerland, Im concerned, I'll have to wait forever to buy it.

Does anyboy know how much later it will become available in Europe than in the US (if at all)?

Marc

In theory right around the same time. In practice it can depend on how quickly they sell through and how quickly we can make them. US retailers get mighty upset if you can't meet their demand.

So launch it in Europe first then...

So launch it in Europe first then..

If Europe bought as many MP3 players as the US then maybe we would! Sadly, it is a tiny fraction. In the UK almost every high street retailer has dropped MP3 entirely, except for CD players.

Rob

That wouldn't be due to the appeal of Sony Minidiscs for masses then would it?

I know some UK friends all rave about Sony Minidiscs, even when MP3's are just as good if not better - and you get more of them in tyour car than any mini-disc unit I've ever seen.

The appeal seems to be that every device in the UK seems to have a mini-disc instead of a tape unit, so its become a de-facto standard.

Can't say thats happened in the rest of the world though.

The UK is extremely minidisc obsessed. They're an easy sell for retailers (no computer needed) and they use physical media, which consumers seem unable to move away from.

You're right that this isn't true for much of the rest of the world.

<orange>they use physical media, which consumers seem unable to move away from</orange>

And here I thought the US was backward....

And here I thought the US was backward....

The US is only backward in cars, mobile phones and domestic appliances

The US is only backward in cars, mobile phones and domestic appliances

I'd like to add road signs to that list.

[edit] I worked out what is wrong with US road signs the other day. The problem is that most of the signs seem to tell you where you are, as opposed to giving directions on how to get to other more distant places. Oh, and there is never enough warning before freeway exits (presumably because the people putting up the signs still think people are travelling at 50mph, rather than 70...

Oh, and there is never enough warning before freeway exits

Except on roads with substandard exit spacing (sadly, most urban highways) the standard is 2 miles advanced warning including which side you'll be exiting from (again, if you're exiting from other than the right, that's also substandard, and if they do substantial work to the road, they get to move the exit from one side to the other).

At 70mph, you're still talking 1.68 minutes between the sign and the exit, not counting the amount of time before the sign that you see it.

There must be some subtle signage that I'm missing then. I'm from the UK and when I drive in Seattle I can rarely tell more than a few hundred yards before an exit exactly where it leads to and whether I should be taking it.

Try renting from Hertz and getting their NeverLost option.

Rob

Yeah, the 2mile sign is rarely implemented for any exit other than a major one. (ie another interstate).

I think that a few major differences help to catch out UK drivers;
1) The density of exits on a US freeway is far higher than on UK motorways, which means that you see a lot more signs generally. It's easy to start missing them because you switch off.
2) The default positioning of exit warning signs is at 1 mile and 1/4 mile, versus 1 mile and 1/2 mile in the UK. That extra 1/4 mile in the UK can make a lot of difference.
3) In the UK you have 300,200,100 yd countdown markers - it's near impossible to miss your exit. I don't recollect ever seeing these in the US. The exit marker is usually something like a yellow reflective diamond which is positioned so that it would be on your left as you exit.
4) UK has long straight slip roads, which are generally easily visible. They are also marked with green cats eyes so the stand out at night. US Exit Ramps tend to be short with sharp turns, making them easy to miss if your not paying attention during the crucial few seconds.
The use of *any* cats eyes in the US is very dependant on state. New Jersey has a lot, Massachusetts has virtually none. Regardless, I haven't ever seen any as clear as in the UK.

As to the quality of signage in general - in Massachusetts they are poor. I think that's a symptom of other issues.

The US numbers routes and not roads. This is a big problem IMO, since a major road can end up being part of several routes in different places, so the numbering is constantly changing. Taking Boston as an easy example;



That red ring road around Boston is Massachusetts State Road 128 (colloquially as '128') But from where I95 meets from the south to where it leaves at the north, 128 becomes I95. If you look at the exit numbers for 128, they follow I95's numbering clockwise for this portion. Now the southeastern section of 128 is also known as I93, and the exit numbers also reflect this, numbering counterclockwise from 1. The kicker here is that I93 North is 128 South at the same time. Oh, and I nearly forgot to mention that this section is also US Route 1 North as well. Now the northeastern section of 128 presumably contains true 128 exit numbers. Running counterclockwise from 1 at Gloucester (off map) to 28 just before it hits I95.

Confused? Join the club. It seems as though no one seems to know what to call this road at various points. If you're looking to get on it, sometimes you'll see signs for 128, sometimes I95, and sometimes I93, depending on where you are. And often they'll be wrong. And listening to traffic reports is interesting too. The Eyes of the Sky generally refer to the whole road simply as 128. But they use the exit numbers appropriate to the individual routes, so it's up to local knowledge to decipher what they mean when they talk about '128 Exit 20' (Should be on the northeastern section, but they usually mean I95 Exit 20).

And on Cape Cod, there's a road, route 28 that is labelled North for South and vice versa along it's entire length. It's really confusing travelling North with the sun in your eyes. At some point obviously someone got pissed off about it enough to do something - some of the signs have been spray painted with a correction.

Yeah, the 2mile sign is rarely implemented for any exit other than a major one. (ie another interstate).

Maybe there. If you don't believe me I'll drive into Pittsburgh after the snow finishes and take pictures of every interchange for you on the way in. The Penn-Lincoln Parkway East is definitely an urban interstate. The exit sign spacing is only substandard where the exit spacing itself is.

As to your later point about colocated highways...
Parkway East is I-376/US-22, and from Forest Hills inward, also US-30. The Parkway West is I-279/US-22/US-30.

As to the quality of signage in general - in Massachusetts they are poor. I think that's a symptom of other issues.

I think this is your actual problem. There are standards, Massachusetts may just be failing to apply them.

As to dual 128/95, 95 was supposed to go through Boston, but (arguably correct) NIMBYs precluded it. So now there are greenways and colocated 128/95.

And as to route 28 on the Cape, if I'm on route 28 north I should end up going through Medford and on north. Do the spray-painted corrections fix that, or more likely, do they break it?

There is rhyme, and reason; In some cases it's just poor.