I wonder how you are supposed to get the music on it. Am I supposed to sit in my car and rip hundreds of cd's like the sony and pioneer models.

Nah, it will come with a docking bay where you plug your Rio "Pearl" into the trunk unit and voila all your songs are synced to the unit - 20 or 40Gb at a time...

in any case by the time they release this thing, CDs and Mp3s will be so old hat, that no-one will want to buy it - it'll be like the 21st century 8 track...

Half_Geek wrote:
> if your empeg hdd dies, you won't lose control

Maybe you won't lose control...

Those anger management classes are paying off!!

Actually, the times I have had Camelot in my car, it is far more distracting when it is working! It just begs to be fiddled with!!

Content can be loaded via audio CDs, data CDs, or emplode - Just like the Rio Central.

The database is a few hundred megs and can be updated via CD or online if connected via USB to a network - Just like the Rio Central.

Now that you have cross fading running in other products, are there any plans to back port that feature to future empeg betas?

Sean

yes

Ok, this is really starting to sound like the Canine's Testicles. Where do I sign up..

Half_Geek...
As I suspected, you are a Visteon mole...Welcome to the BBS, and thanks for your insight.

I'm one of the droolers mentioned in a previous thread!! I'm keen to get these products into production, as basically I want one too!! I'll share what info I can, but there are always the frustrating barriers of corporate secrecy! Hopefully soon...

That is pretty cool... unfortunately won't fit in my dash.... damn.

Ok, this is really starting to sound like the Canine's Testicles. Where do I sign up..

For canine testicles? At http://www.neuticles.com -- check out the cool "Merchandise Mart" section.

Peter

LMAO!

I would have never suspected that such an item was commercially available.

Heh, Rob didn't show the best picture of all... my animated boot logo, still there in the prototype box...

Boot logo image

Tux, driving a red convertible, power-slides onto the screen and waves. The front license plate is a scan of mine (hard to see in the photo).

I'll see if I can dig up the animated GIF of it and post it here (would that be OK, Rob V.?).

Put me down for one.

Looks very cool.

C.

Sure

"LMAO!

I would have never suspected that such an item was commercially available. "

Yep, I'm in medical devices and we used make these out of Cobalt chrome for horses or any other animals that required them for shows. Amazing what people will do for pets!!!

ok, this thing has features that sound cool and all, but please tell me, why does this thing have buttons? couldn't it all be driven by a touchscreen? The screen is too small to be of any real navigation use, and the face is too crowded to be easy to use, and if it has to have buttons, why is so much of the face taken up with such useless ones as "genre" and "year"?

besides, the design of it looks like it came straight out of a Chevy Tahoe. Yuck.

i hope i'm not offending anyone who worked really hard on this. its just my $.02

I would assume the buttons it uses will depend on the buyer (BMW, GM, Ford, etc.). I think this is just a very basic prototype that Visteon is trying to sell to these companies. I think an aftermarket version will not even be released from Visteon.

I envision the empeg software becoming what the TiVo software is today. Sony and Phillips have the same innards, but a different face. Hopefully an aftermarket supplier will come out with this design or possibly another based on the empeg software.

Yep. In fact if you look at the 4th picture rob put up, it is not a Camelot, but one of our production navigation radios. Nice screen, lots of buttons, made it a perfect candidate to demo the capabilities of the hardware behind it. That particular version didn't have a tuner, so we had a lot of buttons that were no longer relevant. Looking at the photos, the one actually on show didn't have all the buttons relabelled (good to see my stick-on labels lasted the show!) - there were some other shortcuts, but they would be changed from what we know now.

This drops straight into a Ford (obviously my own Focus being able to take it had no impact on the choice of donor radio!), but any other OEM customer would be able to decide buttons, displays etc.

We do have an aftermarket division as well though.

I'm not entirely sure what a Chevy Tahoe is, but I'm guessing it's not pretty!

Nick

A Chevy Tahoe is a BIIIIG SUV, if that is what you are asking.

Anyway, I am somewhat heartened by the thought that you are talking about aftermarket models as well. I'm guessing that some of the delay in the OEM sector is due to the timeframes cars are designed upon? I imagine the 2005 or maybe even 2006 models are already being planned. The automotive makers probably don't just drop in different parts the day before they start the assembly line.

Might we possibly see aftermarket units out before the OEM models?

-Biscuits

I'm not up on my American cars!

2005/2006 models are already being designed in a lot of cases! The automotive industry is aiming to reduce the time for a new car to around 18 months, which is why you are seeing common platforms across brands/models, but it still takes longer than that in a lot of cases.

Aftermarket is a good place to start for new audio products, proving the idea, then OEMs usually go for optional or dealer fit units, and then into proper line-fit units, especially with this sort of product. It could go many ways!

This drops straight into a Ford (obviously my own Focus being able to take it had no impact on the choice of donor radio!), but any other OEM customer would be able to decide buttons, displays etc.

I thought the shape looked remarkably similar to the stereo slot in my wife's Fiesta...

The number of buttons is one of the best things about the Camelot. On the car player, Central, Receiver, in fact all our other products there are very few controls which is neat and versatile, yet requires careful control and attention by the user.

For an automotive application, however, this approach is not really suitable since it means that everything must be menu driven, and menu navigation does not mix well with driving as you will all have experienced with the car player. Furthermore, removing functionality from buttons results in deeper menu structures.

I think if you actually used the 'genre' and 'year' buttons you would change your mind. These buttons give you a direct shortcut into the play by 'artist', 'album', 'genre', & 'year' menus. The latest software will also put the currently playing 'album', 'artist', etc at the top of the menu allowing you to quickly select music from the same 'album', 'genre', etc.

As 'Half-geek' mentioned the design was not specific to the project, but taken from a stock radio for ease-of-prototyping purposes.

A touchscreen wouldn't really help in my opinion, particularly for an automotive application, because 1) The controls would have to be moved from the buttons to the screen, resulting in loss of screen estate. 2) As already mentioned, it is convenient to be able to control the device 'blind' - A touchscreen would have to change the on screen button context to maximise use of the screen space. This would mean that again, the user would have to look at the screen to control the device.

Finally, yes, the screen is small, but it is a good resolution, and a very clear, crisp, and bright image with a high refresh rate - The best screen on any product we have ever worked on in fact. The screen size could not really be increased without making the device take up 3 slots, or having an external display. The photos posted on this thread really don't do the screen justice.

I am unable to comment on the navigation side of things as we have not coded that yet, and I have never used the original radio in a car.

Toby

But... the most important questions:
- Will it be removable from the car?
- Can it be loaded with music from a computer?
- What ports are available?
- Is that a CD-writer like on the RioCentral?

And...
What about VideoCD's, when you have such a good screen anyway :-)

Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)

And by the way... I have never seen this in use, but one good way of making use of a touchscreen without sacrifising screen area would be to implement "gestures" as commands, like the Opera Web browser does for Mouse-gestures.
Or a simple handwriting recognision like on the PDAs, only using the entire screen and your finger.

Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)

we've already established that content can be loaded via emplode.

Yes, it would be good if it could play video CDs and DVDs.

No, the most important question;

Will it be Hijack-able?

Some of the 3rd party apps would really benefit from the screen and buttons...

What an interesting idea.

All sorts of images spring to mind, but none of them relevant, and some of them obsene.

At its simplest level this concept could work by mimicking the four way compass pad on a car player, Central, or receiver, translating touches in the top, right, left & bottom of the screen, and perhaps the centre of the screen for enter. More complicated gestures like tracing out a play symbol to make it play, or worse still a FFWD symbol to seek, then a pause symbol to stop it seeking would probably lead to more 'hands off the wheel' time than the deep & populated menus resulting from minimal controls.

Also, the user would still have to look at the screen to position their finger in the right place. At times like this I always remember Fabris describing his 'groping for the nipple' procedure for using an empeg remote whilst driving in the dark. In the same way, you could 'grope for the knob' whilst keeping your eyes on the road with the current Camelot design, but tracing out a decrease volume symbol would certainly require more attention.

A touchscreen can be made very user-friendly;

Use the four corners and middle for five buttons. If the screen is large enough, then adding 4 tactile dots on the surrounding bevel at the center of the edges would allow a further 4 buttons at the middle of the edges. Use a beep to replace the tactile feedback that buttons would normally give. Make sure that the touchscreen has a (configurable) delay so that the first touch can be used to 'gain bearing' on the screen. If possible, make a couple of (tactile) thumb index positions at the bottom left and right of the unit, so that the user can place their thumb there and 'learn' the screen position. This is especially useful in the car where bumps and jolts would otherwise move the hand.

Touchscreens can be done well, but it's rare that they are!

Yep. In fact if you look at the 4th picture rob put up, it is not a Camelot, but one of our production navigation radios.

Ah-HA. Now I know who you are.

Did we shake hands at the Visteon booth?