I was trying to add up how many AOL CDs I get in a year. At my residence, I get approximately one a week or 50 a year. My fraternity house has 20 people living there. In the 3 years I lived in the house, I received an AOL CD every week. I can only imagine that everybody else received the same. What [censored] moron decided it was a good idea to send 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) CDs to 1 (ONE) house?

Do they think that after receiving the 997th CD, we will suddenly change our minds? Oh wait, I really want AOL after all! In the three years I lived in the house, 3000 AOL CDs arrived in our mailbox. This is in addition to the fact that their CDs are in every store, every internet download site, and preinstalled on every computer. Is it any wonder they lost 99 billion last year?

And speaking of store-built computers, why would anybody buy a Hewlett Packard? I ended up being the computer repairman in our fraternity house. In the space of one week, all 3 Hewlett Packards had their hard drives fail. They were different makes and models from different batches. Since then, there have been 2 more hard drive failures; none of them were installed with fans. One had a power supply that was so weak it was not able to reliably boot up every time until I disconnected one of the CD drives. They put a 135 watt power supply in a pentium 1600. How much does it cost to buy a danged fan and a bigger power supply? Of course, they used a proprietary motherboard with its own power connector, so I couldn't replace it. Two of the HP computers are having their monitors fail now and both of these computers had to have their network cards replaced. Somehow, these computers have data corruption requiring Windows to be completely reinstalled every couple of months. Unfortunately, they don't even give a full Windows installation disk and if you want to call technical support, they want a cash payment.

My hands and forearms are covered with nasty scars from the sharp edges inside their computer cases. That is, of course, when I can puzzle out all the hidden latches. Is there a reason people still buy these clunkers?

-Biscuits

I know these things have been said a thousand times before, especially the AOL stuff, but it was annoying me.

Anybody here make the mistake of buying an HP computer? Last I checked, the only major manufacturer to make decent computers was Dell, but I've heard they've been cutting every cost they possibly can.

Dell? Make decent computers? Right...
If I need a desktop then I prefer to build it myself from parts I want. I've seen too many Dell machines which seemed to consist of the cheapest components out there possible which don't have any driver support in new versions of Windows because they're some random OEM board that nobody has ever heard of.
The preinstalled OS on them is usually terrible as well since the drive image was made to support the widest range of their hardware possible. I've always had bizarre crashes and problems with the factory installed OS which were fixed by doing a clean install.
If I was getting a laptop then I'd get a Toshiba or an IBM. Dell laptops have been fine with me but they just feel "cheap"
The new Dell's are kind of neat in that you can change most bits without a screwdriver but the case just feels too plasticky for my tastes still.

- Trevor

Dell? Make decent computers? Right...

The first company I worked for had a couple of Dells and they were the solidest things I've ever used. We ran every wonky beta of Chicago and NT4 on them and they never crashed except when bugs in the OS, or under Chicago bugs in userland, told them to. They were physically solid, too; we could lob them in the back of vans and take them to trade shows and they just worked. They were also Pentium 90s.

Today's Dells are just ordinary-quality PCs; the only reason you'd want to throw them in the river is their departure from standards -- the custom ATX power connector, for instance, or their insistence on cable-select for IDE. (Yes, cable-select is a standard, but it's a pretty non-standard standard.)

Peter

I build my own computers for myself and my close friends and family. That ends up being about a dozen a year. I really don't know who to recommend for everybody else. I do know that Packard Bell made the worst when they were still around. Now, Hewlett Packards are the worst out there.

-Biscuits

Is this the result of HP merging with Compaq?

Buy Apple. I've just bought a new PowerMac G4 and even though I've used macs with these cases for years, I'm still amazed at the quality of the internal and external case design.

i find an aol cd plus a microwave for a few seconds is very satisfying, i do wonder what percentage of cd's produced are aol ones

I find that three seconds on high maximizes the ZZZTTTT while minimizing the burned plastic stench. It is so very gratifying.


-Zeke

Must put the shiny side up to get the lovely trapped lighting effect.

must try it in the dark some day

Drakino might be able to answer that, working for Compaq and all....

I find that three seconds on high maximizes the ZZZTTTT while minimizing the burned plastic stench.

So that's why it always stinks when I do 5 seconds. Silly me!

Is this the result of HP merging with Compaq?

No. HP Pavilions are still designed and made by the same people that made them pre merger. Compaq Presario on the other hand did see a nice change right before the merger. The old Presario team was let go in a round of layoffs, and the Deskpro team started working on all the consumer desktops. The change is easy to spot, the towers stopped shipping with color choices, and instead started looking like normal computers again.

As far as I know, the Compaq name will exist for desktops for a long time to come, to allow HP to have more shelf space at Best Buy and such.

the Deskpro team started working on all the consumer desktops

It's great news they decided to converge these products onto the same chassis, they are also doing the same on some notebook models as well.
The Presario mobo's are now designed by Compaq engineers too which is a welcome change. One I was looking at the other day had (paraphrasing a little here) "Designed by Compaq engineers in Houston, USA" silk screen printed on the topside - I sensed they took a lot of pride in having that on there and I wish them well!

the Compaq name will exist for desktops for a long time to come, to allow HP to have more shelf space at Best Buy and such

In addition, if HP dropped the Compaq brands (Evo, Presario, iPaq, Proliant etc.) then existing Compaq customers would perceive this as a change in supplier. The danger here is those customers would probably see this as a good time to put their business out for tender once again and HP would risk the chance of losing to Dell or IBM.

Dell? Make decent computers? Right...

The way people keep saying that lately... makes me think I bought the last good Dell computer on earth. It's almost two years old now (a dinosaur! ), but it's plenty fast for me. It was pretty reliable when I got it, but I had plans for it anyway. I got rid of the factory installed OS and fetched all my drivers from the original manufacturers, and now I'm happy as a clam. It would be a hard thing for me to remember when it last crashed or gave me an error message of any consequence.

Of course, now it's running in a non-Dell case on a non-Dell power supply, so it's barely a Dell now. I plan to silence the thing and then start upgrading some hardware (sound, video, etc). My opinion is that 1GHz is plenty. Pretty much the only thing that would make me want a faster machine is if I started getting into encoding video for VCD or DVD, which is unlikely. Even if I do have a ReplayTV.

My sister's Dell, designed and ordered and maintained for her by me, also sees problems very rarely. But a friend of mine is planning on ordering a Dell very soon, so that may or may not change my opinion of them. We'll see what happens when the new one arrives, no?

In the 3 years I lived in the house, I received an AOL CD every week.

Wow. I've only ever received one of those things in my entire life! Hope I didn't jinx myself by saying that.

And speaking of store-built computers, why would anybody buy a Hewlett Packard?

Because they *do* actually make some good machines. I know that one of the owners of this studio in Toronto swears by them. Of course, those are the high end dual-proc machines tricked out for heavy FX and animation work. He swears that the HP graphics card and drivers are the ultimate in graphics performance (i.e. stability) for doing professional 3D graphics work on Linux systems.

I think the reason we get so many AOL CDs is because college residences have so many people live at one location. Not only that, college students don't care so much about which mailing lists they end up being signed up for, since somebody else is going to get the junk after a year anyway. AOL sends one CD to each person every so often. In a place that has had 25 people live in each room over 30 years.... and 20 rooms....

HP does seem to make some good high-end computers. Their desktops, on the other hand, have just been a big steaming pile of dung in my experience.

Rookie question, can a mac communicate with a pc over a home network, or are they completely different animals. I have 3 computers on my network (1 HP and 2 Dells) and have been thinking about Apple.

I am still using my Gateway 2000 computer at home -- a 386 with 4 megs of RAM and Windows 3.0.

Of course, it has received a few upgrades in the last 11 years... new case, new motherboard, new processor, new RAM, new hard drive, new CD ROM, new power supply, new operating system, new sound card, new video card, new mouse, new monitor, new speakers, a few other odds and ends. Most of these items have been replaced/upgraded two or three times now. Currently it is at 2 GHz, 512 MB of RAM, 80 GB of hard drive, and 64 MB of RAM on the video card...

But it is still my original Gateway computer, because I am still using the original "Anykey" programmable keyboard, and the original floppy drive (one of those 3.5"/5.25" drives that fits in a single drive bay). I am still registered as a Gateway customer and even received some [useless] technical support on my keyboard a year or so ago.

I bet not too many people here are still using an 11 year old computer!

tanstaafl.

At what point does it become a new computer? When you have removed the last original part? What if you split up the original parts into different computers or later reassemble them?

-Biscuits

Rookie question, can a mac communicate with a pc over a home network, or are they completely different animals. I have 3 computers on my network (1 HP and 2 Dells) and have been thinking about Apple.

Communication itself is TCP/IP just like anything else (Empegs, TiVos, unusually smart toasters).. Apple has their own file sharing protocol (AFP) but OS X is just as happy speaking in Microsoft's (SMB).

received some technical support on my keyboard

ROFL!

Unfortunately, one of my roommates has a Gateway, and it's almost all propreitary. The case is one of those that si designed to be both a tower or a desktop, so it's made as thin as possible. Well, he might as well have bought a laptop, because this thing is not upgradeable at all. He got a new video card for Christmas two years ago and found that the case was too narrow to fit the video card in! How much does that suck?

I remember seeing a Packard Bell computer once, in for repairs. It was a weirdly shaped tower. Here is the basic shape of the bottom as you look at the front of the case:

The thing is, the motherboard lay flat on the bottom of the case where that line is. The two arrows are pointing at the location of the motherboard screws! So basically, if the motherboard is faulty of fried or you want to upgrade it, you might as well throw the machine out because you can't possibly get a screwdriver in there.

What's that at the bottom? The oil plug?

Seriously, though, there's gotta be some way to get it out of there. It's not like the case was vacuum molded around the motherboard.

half the time, i think that is the only way they could have gotten them together!

As an engineer i know i can take anything to pieces just my success rate on reassembly is a wee bit lower

Ah, yes. At school, we used to describe one form of fixing things as ``the engineer's solution'': whacking it with a hammer.

My favorite example of this is when one of our Apollo workstations would go kaflooey (technical term), the usual form of fixing them used by the technicians involved picking it up about a foot and dropping it back to the table. This worked surprisingly well.

In reply to:

---

the usual form of fixing them used by the technicians involved picking it up about a foot and dropping it back to the table.

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You sure that wasn't an Apple III? Quote from http://fp3.antelecom.net/gcifu/applemuseum/3.html

From what I have read, the original Apple III (or Apple /// as it was written) ran so hot that it's board would expand and unseat the chips from their sockets. At one time the recommended fix for an Apple III that was acting up was to drop it about 2 inches onto a hard surface to reseat the chips!

In addition, if HP dropped the Compaq brands (Evo, Presario, iPaq, Proliant etc.) then existing Compaq customers would perceive this as a change in supplier. The danger here is those customers would probably see this as a good time to put their business out for tender once again and HP would risk the chance of losing to Dell or IBM.

HP did drop the Compaq name from anything outside the desktop and notebook market. Every new Proliant in our lab now says HP, the drivers say HP, the SmartStart CD says HP, and the top of the new iPaq 19xx and 5xxx series says HP. So far, it hasn't had a noticible drop in sales, and actually Proliant sales are up now as the old Netserver customers move over to the Proliant line. Even the new EV7 Alphas say HP.

Even the new EV7 Alphas say HP.

Heh. Who would have thought, 25 years ago, that HP and DEC would be the same company? Pretty funny stuff. Of course that now means that HP is supporting how many platforms? x86, Alpha, PA-RISC, Itanium, VAX -- any others?

Still, I think he was referring to the model names -- Evo, Presario, etc. -- and not the Compaq name.

If we have problems with something electronic we apply the following rules

Rule1 Is it a big problem if not ignore problem

Rule 2 Switch it off count to 30 switch it back on If no fix see rule 1 again if rule 1 fails see rule 3

Rule 3 Have we got a new card if yes put new card in if not scream shout and get a technician

If all of above fails switch to handymatic

I bet not too many people here are still using an 11 year old computer!

Hmm... that's a tough one to beat. My main desktop workstation is an Alpha purchased by my company as part of a render farm for Titanic, which puts it at 1996 -- all original parts, though I'm about to add another SCSI drive from an old Indigo2 -- so that's only 7 years old. My fileserver is a Pentium-MMX, so that's even newer -- 1997 at the earliest. However, my firewall is built from a Pentium based machine which started life as a 486 DX/4, with 8 megs of RAM and DOS 5.0 -- it was a gift from a friend of mine when he moved, and didn't want to take it with him. Still in the original case, still running with the same power supply as when he got it back in about '91. I still have the original keyboard attached to it, though the J key was broken off (and replaced with the 5 key from the number pad) in an attempt to switch keycaps around so that I could learn the dvorak layout. If that still counts as original (all upgrades from 486 were done by me), then I guess that's 12 years.

But it is still my original Gateway computer, because I am still using the original "Anykey" programmable keyboard, and the original floppy drive (one of those 3.5"/5.25" drives that fits in a single drive bay).

Last summer I mourned the loss of a mountain bike that I bought in '95 -- I'd gone through two frames, a number of wheelsets, etc, until the only things left were a seat, which broke two years ago at the start of the Provincial Championships race, and the grips. The grips got cut off after they started leaving bits of rubber on my hands after a ride. Wasn't my bike anymore, after that.

Until about eight months ago, I was using a Soundblaster 16 that I bought when it was new and cutting-edge. A quick look online seems to indicate that that would have been 1992 (which seems right, because I'm pretty sure I was living in a dorm at the time), so that's about 10 years. And my part was more significant than your part. It still works, too. I just have nowhere to put it right now, and, since it's ISA, I doubt I'll ever have anywhere to put it again.

On the other hand, I also still have a Gateway AnyKey keyboard that I got with my 486SX/33 in 1991 that I use when I have to actually type at the console of my AT-keyboarded OpenBSD machine. Actually, I haven't used it in a while, and it just occurred to me that it'll be difficult, because the last change I made to that computer required the removal of its video card. Here's hoping it doesn't break!

Edit: IDE ... ISA -- Whatever it takes!

And my part was more significant than your part

Dem's fightin' words!

"...since it's IDE..."

You mean ISA, right?

I still have an ISA Sound Blaster AWE32 Gold in one of my Linux machines for listening to MP3's and such. Still a great card as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, the AWE32 Gold was one of the best that Creative ever made. The AWE64 Gold was technically good too, although that was around the time that Creative started going downhill - I never did get half of the music software to even install because their installer couldn't believe that a Cyrix6x86 at 200MHz was acceptable. "You must have a Pentium 50 or better."..

Every card that they've made since has been over-priced and under-performing (especially SQ-wise) as far as I'm concerned. Backed up with outrageous bloatware, buggy drivers and a couldn't-care-less attitude towards support. Over 5 years later, and Creative still on seem to test with Intel based systems - witness the *hordes* of Athlon users who have had nothing but trouble with the SB Live.

If I were in the market for a soundcard at the moment, I'd buy either M-Audio or Turtle Beach.

AWE64 Gold, have one of those too. Although, it's currently sitting in my closet somewhere, collecting dust, along with hordes of other misc. parts.

I agree that Creative has gone downhill since then. They seem to cut a lot of corners trying to meet release dates, and continuously release crap. Their drivers are now ridiculous; packed with all kinds of excess garbage that nobody will ever use, and not all that stable.

I have a box full of SB16's and a ton of other cards from back in that era from them, and they all work great. Linux loves them, so they end up in all my Linux boxes.

Ah, yes. At school, we used to describe one form of fixing things as ``the engineer's solution'': whacking it with a hammer.

I usually refer to this as "percussive maintenance".

Hey, I've still got one of those laying around here too. This reminds me that I better put it on Ebay now. it's not like I'm ever going to use it anymore, I don't have a motherboard left that still has ISA slots...

At what point does it become a new computer? When you have removed the last original part?

Never! It's like Grandfather's axe. The handle has been replaced four times, the axe-head twice, but it is still the same axe that he got from his grandfather!

tanstaafl.

Heh, I bought my first (and only) whole PC in '90. It was a 486/sx 25. Been upgrading parts ever since. The last thing to go was the case. I only replaced that when everything moved to ATX. I still have it, and it is housing my firewall. It is, however, starting to show a little rust. The only really strange thing about my PC is that I currently have 2 power supplies in it. One AT and one ATX. The at runs all my drives, and the ATX runs the board and cards. And yes, they're grounded together. It's kinda funny, really. My computer looks like quasimodo. Oh, and I think I lost the case cover 2 moves ago, or about 4 years. I never have bothered to seal it up.

Until about eight months ago, I was using a Soundblaster 16 that I bought when it was new and cutting-edge. [...] And my part was more significant than your part.

I actually have two of those -- one that used to be in my firewall but got put in my fileserver, and one in my Alpha.

I believe the appropriate response here is:

neener-neener.




(Say, I wonder if tanstaafl reckoned on the Linux/BSD people here when he made that comment...)

Yeah, but I was using it in my main workstation. It might be resurrected if and when I hand my current computer down to my wife.

Oh, and are yours the non-PnP jumpered sort?

Yeah, no PnP for me. The one I have in my main workstation is non-operational at the moment due to conflicting IRQs. That's not such a big deal -- I have the software necessary to change it. Only my main workstation is an Alpha, and I'm having trouble getting the x86 emulator working, so that I can get dosemu working, so that I can run the software.